NW Oregon HIGHLY minerized soil.

[INSAYN]

Ok here's the dealeeo.

Went from a Whites XLT of 14 years to a CTX 3030 this year.

In all the years of the XLT, I could never register a coin further than 5.5" in our mineral rich soil, or any soil for that matter.
I backed this up by running it hot and it squealing like a stuck pig over a target that a V3i or E-Trac could sniff in moderate mineralization. I got NADA!

So, fast forward to the CTX now.

I don't have any others in my area that have the CTX yet to bounce settings off of, but do have some E-Trac fellers that have been very helpful in what I could start with.

My issue is that when I run in Auto Sensitivity in many of my hunt areas in my small town, it will get pretty low and even with +3 I only get 16-18.
I've tried running Manual Sensitivity and bring it up to at least 22, sometimes I can get up to 25 but mineral and iron falsing is rediculous.
I go incredibly slow to hopefully catch a tone that is deeper, but I'm only getting unrepeatable squeals here and there. When I do get a repeatable signal, and sometimes in 4 directions, and get a pinpoint directly over the tone, I dig down, breaking a halo and find that it has moved and is nothing but a nail sticking out from the side of the hole.

What I am wondering here is if my soil is so bad that if I run Auto (where the machine is nice and quiet), I would be back to 5.5" of depth that my XLT could do all day long.

I have identical Modes created based off Gonehunting's Combined setup, one set with Fe/Coin the other set with Ground/Coin. When I get a good tone, or one that could very well be a desirable target, I will spend some time comparing both Modes over it, also playing with Deep On/Off.

I know I need to build a test bed with some silver dimes and go at it that way, however my yard doesn't have the heavy minerals as the rest of town does. I removed 18" of soil and replaced it with nice clean topsoil when I purchased the house in 1996. Don't think I will be burying any of my silver in town either just for the sake of testing.

Oh, and I have also ground balanced and then run with it turned enabled, as well as ground balanced and disabled it after to see if there was any change. All I noticed is that when I spend too much time analyzing a target with GB enabled, it deteriorates the signal and will require me to move away from it to reestablish the GB based on the actual minerals and not a target mixed in with it. Kind of a pain there.

On a side note, I have been successful in other towns with much less mineralization and able to clearly ID a Wheat penny at 7"-8" with a nail or two above it. So, I'm thinking the machine is fine, it's just me and my crappy soil, or there are not many silver coins left to target in my town in the more public areas. Compass detectors was still in business till about 1996 here, and of course we have Whites just south of us, so I am really sure this town has been scoured hard for years.

Anything else you pro's with nasty soil could provide me with to try?

Thanks guys.

 

[nolanation]

I was waiting for a response for you as well. I have had the same issues in the piedmont of NC. Although Auto +3 typically stays around 18- 20 for me, I am not getting many targets past 6". There is a lot of mineralized soil around here, to the point where you can stick the Propointer anywhere in the soil after I retrieve my target, and it will give an erractic beeping as it picks up the minerals. It's that bad. Some areas are not as bad, but many of the old houses I hunt are. I run into falsing because of this as well. I have been trying to go super slow, and running in ground coin, but it just seems to be tough to pull anything past 6" when the ground is that bad. When I am back at the parents in VA near the beach, I have no problems with depth.

 

[INSAYN]

Thanks Nolanation.

In Auto +3 pushing 18 (clear and quiet) and getting not much more than 3"-4" of depth is worse than my XLT could go. It maxed out at 5"-5.5" for me.
When I switch over to Manual and run up the sensitivity, I can sometimes get as high as 25, but still don't see much of a depth increase if any.

I am curious of how deep the CTX can sense a quarter with sensitivity at 18-20 in Auto or Manual by others?

So far it is not impressing me even coming from my old XLT.

Don't get me wrong, not bad mouthing it. It still has a lot of features that I love that my old XLT does not share. Just wish I could see some depth with it.

 

[lomoch]

I've owned 2 CTX machines. First must of had issues. I also own a Deus with large coil. Test garden soil is mild. Quarter at 12.5 inches. Deus can sound off on this rather easily in most modes with small coil. In Relic, I get good ID of 92-91. Large coil can hit this coin several inches off the ground and scream. My first CTX could not sound off on this coin at all. Been in an Etrac for several years, so I had a good start on knowing the CTX. Although the soil is mild, EMI would not allow this CTX to run above 17-18. Manual of this level just went nuts. Auto at this level was purring like a kitten. I continued testing this quarter over several months between both Deus and CTX...Deus won. I could not get the CTX to sound off at all.

About a month ago, starting hankering for that ML sound and ID. Decided to try out another CTX. This CTX will still not announce my quarter in auto of any sort, and reports the same values of 17-18 in such...but, I can run this machine very stabile in manual up to 21 on this test garden and that quarter is loud and clear, especially running FE Coin separation. Amazingly, the ID of that quarter is solid.

I have no idea. Maybe first machine had a problem. I love the ML machines, but concerned about quality of product from machine to machine.

I doubt that helps, but I thought I'd throw this out there.

 

[nolanation]

Ok thanks, but yea we are looking for tips regarding heavily mineralized soil. I do like your idea regarding running in manual, as I have read a time or two before this, that you can get extra depth and stability past Auto +3. I need to explore this.

 

[INSAYN]

I think I might be able to fix the problem (tomorrow).

The thread about the new falsing issue during Relic hunting got my attention.
He listed all the things he has done to try and remedy the new issue.

One of the things he listed was lowering the gain.
My first thought was...."Gain"? Where do you change that?

Surfed around looking for CTX3030 gain adjustment and found it was the "Volume Gain" that he was referring to.

On this site, this feller has really spent some quality time explaining the various function of the CTX.
http://metaldetectingworld.com/ctx3030_e-trac_coin_program.shtml

I remember seeing that my Volume Gain was set at 30 this morning when I accidently opened that menu option while fiddling in the front yard.

Now, go back to the first day I turned on my CTX, I was trying to get the WM-10 volume to increase on screen and must have cranked it up and left it that way.
Later found that you can adjust the 4 different volumes of the CTX speaker, CTX headphones, WM10 speaker and WM10 headphones via the universal settings on the X-Change2 program.

Anyways, tomorrow I will drop the Volume Gain back down until I hopefully get a quieter unit when running Manual sensitivity higher than 20 in our mineral rich soil.

Wish me luck!

 

[nolanation]

Insayn, let me know what you come up with! I will be trying it on my end as well.

 

[INSAYN]

Well, I'm not sure if depth has been improved but noise chatter is definetely improved. I went to an older park that I've been to before and it still seems to pick up on EMI, but lowering the Volume Gain from 30 (my mistake when I first tried to increase the WM10 headphone volume) to 20ish, it was A LOT quieter and did not false on the normal stuff it was falsing on before.

Now, I still didn't hit any coin targets past 4", but this park has been hammered hard for years, and recently relandscaped. I didn't only found 2 clad Nickles and 3-4 Zincolns in just under 2 hours. My buddy with the V3i didn't find anything but a couple shallow Zincs as well. He mentioned that his machine VDI'd the Zincs as Quarters so he was excited to dig, but let down with the recovery.

Last night at work was brutal, and we just needed to unwind for a bit before going home and getting a nap in, preparing to switch our bodies back to days for our 4 day weekend.

Tomorrow, I think I will go bury some coins in my yard at different depths and fiddle with the CTX with both the stock and 6" coil and see what I can muster for depth.

 

[Atlas]

I've been away from the my computer for a while so jumping in a little late. I have this same problem with low sens levels in the Auto modes. I get recommended sens levels in the single digits in some of my hunt areas and generally run Auto in these areas. Other areas I'll run Auto +3 and get levels in the high teens but rarely 20's. My deepest coin so far is 6.5-7" and I attribute this to the high mineralization in my area (Nevada). I also switched from an MXT and it was only getting to about 6" in these same areas.

I now run with manual ground balance and mostly ground coin but switch to Fe/Coin sometimes to check and find the targets will sometimes hit harder in Fe/Coin which is odd cause it is supposed to be set up for low mineralization areas I believe. Lately I've been experimenting a bit with manual sens at the levels the Auto mode recommends. It is my understanding (post by Digger) that when you do this all three operating frequencies operate at that sens level. In Auto only one frequency will operate at that level.

I was a little worried about the machine because of the issues cited above but recently took the machine on a trip to Florida and checked it out on the beach. Ran Auto and manual in the preset beach mode and saltwater setting with Auto GB. Sens levels ran in the mid to high 20's all day. Deepest coin was a zinc at ~18". I should have kept better track but I would say I was regularly digging coins at 12" on the beach and they hit hard. I also dug down 2ft for a bunch of sinkers stuck in a pot hole on some old reef rock. This trip proved to me my machine can run higher sens levels in lower mineralized ground.

I've read some other posts about high mineralization in the Sierra's and perhaps throughout the western states. I think any detector will be challenged in these areas.

Thanks for your comments on the volume gain and the multiple locations I may need to recheck where mine are. I think I had the master gain control at 30 but limited to 15. Any higher and targets were blowing out my ears.

 

[nolanation]

Maybe a PI machine for these challenging areas?

 

[INSAYN]

Well, this morning I buried dimes at 5", 6", 7" and 8" with zero hits on any of them. Ziltch, Zip, Nada!
I could get pinpoint on the 5" but very weak and irratic numbers that I would never have dug.

But I am surprised that it couldn't hit on the 5" coin at all with a slow swing, GB'd, noise cancelled, Deep on or off and Manual sensitivity anywhere from 20-30.

It was unstable anywhere above 26 anyways.

Did a factory reset which just clears the settings, and transfered modes. Firmware update stayed.
Tested again with the factory coin program, GB'd, noise cancelled and same sensitivity settings.

Frustrated with lack of any performance from this high end unit, I gave up and called Minelab to discuss my issues.
Talked them through everything I have seen and tune changes I have attempted.
They keyed in on the fact that in both air testing and shallow coins, it read 2"-3" more on the screen than what is real. They thought that might be a clue to an issue.

Because it is under 30 days old, I promply got a shipping label and RMA number to ship it in for a check up and replacement if there is an issue.

UPS picked it up a 6pm.
Hopefully it won't be months before I see another glimps of the CTX.

 

[nolanation]

I have read on here that Minelab's with FBS technology do not test well at all on freshly buried coins., but then again 5" shouldn't be an issue.

 

[lomoch]

Insayn,
I'm very curious to see how your new machine works out for you. Please keep us posted.

 

[burlbark]

Well, this morning I buried dimes at 5", 6", 7" and 8" with zero hits on any of them. Ziltch, Zip, Nada!
I could get pinpoint on the 5" but very weak and irratic numbers that I would never have dug.

But I am surprised that it couldn't hit on the 5" coin at all with a slow swing, GB'd, noise cancelled, Deep on or off and Manual sensitivity anywhere from 20-30.

It was unstable anywhere above 26 anyways.

Did a factory reset which just clears the settings, and transfered modes. Firmware update stayed.
Tested again with the factory coin program, GB'd, noise cancelled and same sensitivity settings.

Frustrated with lack of any performance from this high end unit, I gave up and called Minelab to discuss my issues.
Talked them through everything I have seen and tune changes I have attempted.
They keyed in on the fact that in both air testing and shallow coins, it read 2"-3" more on the screen than what is real. They thought that might be a clue to an issue.

Because it is under 30 days old, I promply got a shipping label and RMA number to ship it in for a check up and replacement if there is an issue.

UPS picked it up a 6pm.
Hopefully it won't be months before I see another glimps of the CTX.

Please keep us updated. I am on the fence and am considering buying one, but I have the same difficult soil.

 

[jtalley007]

Generally speaking if you use iron discrimination with anything other than a 4 filter it will kill depth in mineralization. On California black sand you can't get a coin 2" set up like that. Try an open screen and see what happens. Also any modes with FE will do the same from what I understand or recall. I tried one of the organised hunts in bad VA soil and did not fair well with my explorer but a guy there from West VA cleaned up with his since he was used to hunting in bad soil. Maybe someone else that has hunted this type of soil can be more help? Let us know how you make out.

 

[INSAYN]

jtalley007,
Not sure if you were talking to me or not.
I run wide GH's Combined mode or similar mode on the wide open screen where I should've been able able to pick up targets deeper than 3".
I ran my disc on my XLT from -95 to -20, +95 blocked with everything else open, but that is a 4 filter machine as you mentioned.

That's interesting observation on your Explorer, thanks for providing the reference. It's a very good point to keep in mind.

Generally speaking if you use iron discrimination with anything other than a 4 filter it will kill depth in mineralization. On California black sand you can't get a coin 2" set up like that. Try an open screen and see what happens. Also any modes with FE will do the same from what I understand or recall. I tried one of the organised hunts in bad VA soil and did not fair well with my explorer but a guy there from West VA cleaned up with his since he was used to hunting in bad soil. Maybe someone else that has hunted this type of soil can be more help? Let us know how you make out.

 

[mickfin]

Hi INSAYN

First off, AAA+++ on your proof reading and making yourself so clear in what you have to say!!!!!!!
That's what I do also try to do. I used to be a Big Whites lover too. But the thruth is, Whites can't deal with Hot ground or Black sand and that's why I switched.
In your Hot ground try two tone farres. Try that. That mode will find the GOOD stuff where ever you are, Hot ground or not??
You have to work with an open screen or Relic, I'm thinking on a CTX 30-30 Do you have one what do you think???
I have a E-Track now, mickfin,

 

[INSAYN]

mickfin, Thanks for the proof reading comment. I'm certainly not perfect by any sense of the word, but my OCD with spelling and basic grammar gets the best of me.

You asked if I had a CTX3030, yes and no. Purchased one back in January, and seem to be having either detector issues or ground issues. I sent it back to Minelab for evaluation and either tuning or replacement. Bottom line, my detector either has an issue and needs fixed or replaced, or the CTX is not the machine for my soil. I know we have mineralized soil out here, but I am not the only person with a metal detector out here. In fact Compass detectors were made in my town up until their building was destroyed by fire in I think 1996. Whites is an Oregon company and sits in the same valley as I do. I have friends with E-tracs and V3i's that get 6" dimes over and over and over in the same soil.

I figured since this unit was still young, and the warranty still fresh that I should go ahead and find out for sure by letting Minelab take a look at.
Up to this point the CTX is not impressive at all to me personally. Hoping this changes when I get back mine or a new one.

Hi INSAYN

First off, AAA+++ on your proof reading and making yourself so clear in what you have to say!!!!!!!
That's what I do also try to do. I used to be a Big Whites lover too. But the thruth is, Whites can't deal with Hot ground or Black sand and that's why I switched.
In your Hot ground try two tone farres. Try that. That mode will find the GOOD stuff where ever you are, Hot ground or not??
You have to work with an open screen or Relic, I'm thinking on a CTX 30-30 Do you have one what do you think???
I have a E-Track now, mickfin,

 

[jtalley007]

Please let us know when you get it back, I would be shocked if it did not perform as well if not better than the Etrac although I have never had one of them.

There is so many combinations of things the CTX can do based on how it is set up and with the added manual ground balance that the BBS and FBS did not have before that should give it the edge.

I saw the guy I mentioned digging the heck out of eagle buttons in really bad VA dirt with and Explorer 2 and buttons barely read at all in that dirt.

Give us a report if you don't mind when it comes back and get some help from another CTXer that uses one in bad ground.

So far here it is the bomb in good ground when everything is right, a friend I met on the OBX of NC has used them all on the beaches and he is one hard core beach hunter.

He is selling his CZ20, and other good machines since there is nothing that touches the CTX on the beaches for him.

Hope all this helps your confidence and you get your machine right. I got mine back in July and it had a bad coil, it was horrible with falsing on the salt and would not even work in the water. They replaced the coil and that fixed it.

 

["Dr.Tones"]

Just wanted to check something... Please don't be offended, I've seen this happen before, but did you ever try pulling the coil cover off and cleaning it out? I know after a few hours of use mine can get a good build up of crap in there. If its at all mineralized you can forget about getting anything. To prevent this build up I use a single peice of coil cover tape. It's basically just electrical tape. Or try some calk. I'm interested to here about your new machine.