Ok, here are my Excalibur related Questions

[Habanero]

I have not decided upon either the excal or CZ20/21 yet if I'm even going to go that route (See my other post regarding this). I like the silent search and tones of the CZ but would prefer the DD coil of the excal...not sure I like the constant humming threshold but I can get used to most anything. I'm ok with buying used too so I'm considering an older excalibur. I keep reading about mods and repairs that can be done to the excal and know Kellyco will work on the excal. Lets say I buy an old junker excal that is not working and will need a new batter, charger/adapter, knobs and other misc stuff. About how much does someone charge to pretty much completely refurbish one of these excals back to top running and waterproof condition? I know how much they are new and know sponsors will deal on them but if I can pick up an old excal in sorry shape for a couple hundred bucks and it does not cost too much then I can have one is top shape, modded on a custom straight shaft for less than new. Or at least that's what I'm hoping. I just don't want to spend as much on refurbishing as it would cost to just buy a new excal. Anyone have any advice to give on the subject?

 

[robinb]

You can set the threshold (and its best too) just audible, that way you can tell when it nulls over iron.

Most parts are available from minelab or dealers, battery, knobs, etc
It is obviously very important to make sure its sealed properly.
Water and electronics do not mix.

I have not used the cz detectors so can't comment on them.

 

[adamBomb]

I have read so many articles and forums discussing these two detectors. They each seem to have a few advantages over one another. As far as depth goes, they seem pretty even. I have seen test where the CZ wins and tests where the Excal wins. Overall I think both machines are as neck and neck as you can get and it comes down to who is behind the machine. Here are a few good links where they compare the two machines:

http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=100325
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=179708
http://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=141267

And this one really gets into the technology of both units even though it starts with the CZ: http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,7356,7356#msg-7356

As far as buying a used excal - it can get really expensive to fix. I have heard of people spending $600+ for just the electrical board (i think thats the part) because it went bad. If you buy a used machine, just make sure its working, that its water proof (no cracking on case), look for cracks on the wires, etc. I would not buy a junker unless you can fix it yourself. You might end up spending more than a new unit. Assuming its working well and you buy used for a good price ($700-$900 is what I would consider good for a working excal unmodded and not in warranty) you would definitely want to get it serviced at kellyco and have them do any mods you might need.

I personally went with the CZ because I bought new before they raised the prices and it was $400 less than the Excal last year. Now that they are even I would probably still go with the CZ because its built like a tank. If I were getting an excal, which I might do one of these days, I will be a good working used one that I can mod the heck out of.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I don't know why you're stuck on the notion that if you got a used excal, you're going to need to have it refurbished. Why can't you just get a functional one ? There are bought and sold Excal's all the time on the classified, that are fully working. I had one for years, putting lots of abusive hours on it (I'm hardcore), and it held up just fine. Your risk of getting a machine that needs "refurbishing" is no more of a risk than getting a used Fisher that needs a tune-up too. So I don't get it.

I personally dis-like silent search, so I'd go with the excal. Also the CZ20 & CZ21 have been known to be weak on iron. Ie.: deep bent rusty nails might start to sound like targets (even though you've got iron tuned out). Like, they might give you a one way "blip", which you might worry is also the deep one-way blip of a very deep conductive target. Oh sure, the CZ fans have tips for over-coming this (cross-check in all-metal, blah blah). But nagging doubts will have you double checking a bunch "just to be sure". Contrast to the excal, and I never had a problem with nail-falses.

 

[adamBomb]

Also the CZ20 & CZ21 have been known to be weak on iron. Ie.: deep bent rusty nails might start to sound like targets (even though you've got iron tuned out). Like, they might give you a one way "blip", which you might worry is also the deep one-way blip of a very deep conductive target. Oh sure, the CZ fans have tips for over-coming this (cross-check in all-metal, blah blah). But nagging doubts will have you double checking a bunch "just to be sure". Contrast to the excal, and I never had a problem with nail-falses.

I would be digging any deep sounding target on any machine. Discrimination begins to fail as the target gets deeper on all metal detectors, especially when its gold (if they can pick up gold at all). I pretty much dig everything at the beach because it takes a second. I only avoid the low tones when its a really shallow target. I dont find any nails at the beach but from what I have read on the CZ and high tone nails is that you just go over the target at a few angles, which I do for all anyway, and it will tell you. Having said that, I would dig it anyway unless I had already dug up a few nails in the area.

 

[Habanero]

I don't know why you're stuck on the notion that if you got a used excal, you're going to need to have it refurbished. Why can't you just get a functional one ? There are bought and sold Excal's all the time on the classified, that are fully working. I had one for years, putting lots of abusive hours on it (I'm hardcore), and it held up just fine. Your risk of getting a machine that needs "refurbishing" is no more of a risk than getting a used Fisher that needs a tune-up too. So I don't get it.

I personally dis-like silent search, so I'd go with the excal. Also the CZ20 & CZ21 have been known to be weak on iron. Ie.: deep bent rusty nails might start to sound like targets (even though you've got iron tuned out). Like, they might give you a one way "blip", which you might worry is also the deep one-way blip of a very deep conductive target. Oh sure, the CZ fans have tips for over-coming this (cross-check in all-metal, blah blah). But nagging doubts will have you double checking a bunch "just to be sure". Contrast to the excal, and I never had a problem with nail-falses.

I'm not stuck on anything really. I know a guy that has one that may need a whole lot of work, including the plastic case/pod as it's cracked. He's asking very little for it. Just curious if I should avoid it altogether and get a newer used one in great shape or just go new.

 

[adamBomb]

I'm not stuck on anything really. I know a guy that has one that may need a whole lot of work, including the plastic case/pod as it's cracked. He's asking very little for it. Just curious if I should avoid it altogether and get a newer used one in great shape or just go new.

I wouldnt buy a junker unless I knew how to fix it or could identify what was wrong and had a ballpark idea of how much it would cost to fix. Otherwise, I would not buy it unless I first sent it to kellyco to get an estimate on the cost to fix. Why not just get one thats working for like $800-$900?

 

[GeorgeinSC]

Before purchasing a Machine of any kind that needs a lot of repair work take a look on line at what the parts sell for. For example a new battery for the Excal will set you back about $180.00 shipped. The Charging adapter is $70.00 plus shipping.
If the control housing is cracked I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole. Save yourself a lot of headaches and Money and purchase one that is fully operational. Then if you want it modded (new headlphones, Pin Point switch) you can get that done.

My Excal paid for itself in May and again in June. I have had my Excalibur II for two years and it has never let me down. I set disc at its lowest setting and dig everything that it tells me about. Yes I did some junk but I also dig some mighty fine targets.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Here's another thought: If the only problem were the "cracked case" (and it functioned properly in all other regards), then ....... as long as you're not snorkeling or scuba, you're fine. Ie.: for just occasional wave slaps, rain, etc.... a crack (so long as you cover it with black tape), is probably just fine.

When I got my Excal, I only got it because I was sick & tired of having to wrap my standard land machine with plastic bags and black tape. NOT that I intended to scuba or snorkel. But just for the type hunting where I'm in heavy rain, d/t I tend to hunting during storm/erosion events. And ... yes.... the occasional slap of a wave, etc... But if the crack is minimal, I'm betting that it will suffice for all water resistance, barring actual depth-in-wate(where pressure takes over, and water tries to find its way into hairline fissures).

Just a thought.

 

[Habanero]

Looks like I'm gonna just pass on the junker excal and look at a new or newer machine for the water, thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[dewcon4414]

We all know the things that can break on an Xcal......... but it doesnt mean they break on every machine. Id dare say only the coil or phones are the major buck things. As far as battery...... maxxpack with charger $50. Knobs..... radio shack and O rings any hardware store. Im the king of tearing things up ask Ole Beach Nut. MOST of these used machines being sold are still top notch functioning machines. The more hours you put on one the more equipment will need repairs. I cut my hunting back a little last year and havent had a repair since...... and i dare say i still put in more hours than most. One year warranty on a NEW machine for most is just a few months use up North. So id much rather take my chances with a used machine at half price especially if you arent diving. A good LONG CF shaft keeps the machine out of the water most of the time as well. I cant tell you the problems i had on my NEW machine the first year......... everything. The CZ is a good machine....... but you have to open the battery every time. A good many people hunt the same way we do with the Xcal....... PP then switch disc. They dont have a mod. My point is...... every machine has known problems even the pricy CTX. Be it a PI or any water machine dont expect to buy one and never have a repair if you use it a lot. BUT .... every water machine WILL pay for its self. Ive been more than happy with used machines........ and after a repair you do have i believe a 6 mos warranty on that repair.

 

[tvr]

The CZ is a good machine....... but you have to open the battery every time.

Well ... the electronics in the CZ are sealed from the battery compartment. In 10 years of using the same CZ20 with the same gasket it has not leaked into the battery compartment (or anywhere else). I don't dive though. Battery life on the CZ can be around 80 hours; so that is not opening the battery compartment every hunt. All that said, I am kind of getting fond of the blue tube Excal I picked up used.

As to buying used, don't forget about demo units. Keep an eye out for dealer demo units coming up for sale. You can get a very lightly used detector for a very good discount with full warranty.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[Habanero]

Good suggestions about demo units, thanks. Maybe a little blue tube on the horizon for me.

 

[Cameraniac]

The junker that you mentioned may make a good parts doner if its cheap enough.

 

[Habanero]

The junker that you mentioned may make a good parts doner if its cheap enough.

If I could pick it up for next to nothing then yes. As is I think it's too much though to be a donor. Not many good parts or anything on it.

 

[OldBeechnut]

I'm with picking up one in the 700 to 900 range, one that is clean and looks the part.. they do come up for sale. Either the blue tube or green is fine. I'm using a bluetube now with a green xcal II board and it has found most of the gold this year...

And I would suggest Kellyco look at or one that has been serviced by them...

prices are ball park on repairs

coil 325 stock installed

headphones 210 installed GGA's

pod 110 then labor

orings I think run around 10 each then labor, last I heard 90 total

pp kit kellyco is around 125 I believe

new board is 600 area..

 

[Habanero]

I'm with picking up one in the 700 to 900 range, one that is clean and looks the part.. they do come up for sale. Either the blue tube or green is fine. I'm using a bluetube now with a green xcal II board and it has found most of the gold this year...

And I would suggest Kellyco look at or one that has been serviced by them...

prices are ball park on repairs

coil 325 stock installed

headphones 210 installed GGA's

pod 110 then labor

orings I think run around 10 each then labor, last I heard 90 total

pp kit kellyco is around 125 I believe

new board is 600 area..

Ouch...they are proud of their stuff! The vehicle I drive is cheaper than that on it's parts. I guess you gotta pay to play though :sad:

 

[dewcon4414]

Maybe..... but me and Joe still buy used. I prefer the blue older Xcals. I think u scared him Joe.

 

[Habanero]

Maybe..... but me and Joe still buy used. I prefer the blue older Xcals. I think u scared him Joe.

Eh, maybe a little bit. If you get hooked though then you can't just have one so there's always room for one more. Besides, you and Joe may get a chance to buy my used one if I end up not taking to it

 

[dewcon4414]

If its an Xcal II it wont be me buying it....... i really have had great luck with the Blue Xcals and they just run smoother. Everyone that water hunts needs a good back up machine. Trust me they only break at the worst time...... normally during prime hunting time.

Dew