OK, what gives.....

[JoeinMemphis]

I have 2 questions for the experts...

I have been hunting an old 1849 home site for about 8 months now with a shiny new SE Pro. My grand total on coins.... .14 cents. A dime (clad) and 4 pennies, all clad but one wheat. The place is about 40 acres of cut grass, field, and woods. It is rumored to have been used during the Civil War as a hospital, and a skirmish was fought nearby. It has reportedly been hunted hard for an unknown number of years that it sat vacant, but I refuse to believe a place that large, with the junk I am finding, and with the conditions I am dealing with, could possibly be hunted out. The conditions are, even with a 6" EXcellerator you get at least 8~10 Iron nail signals PER SWING... EVERYWHERE!! There is very little "quiet" ground anywhere on the 40 acres. I started with Iron mask at "22", then dropped to the enhanced nail rejection pattern in Andy's book, and finally after throwing a nickel on the ground and sweeping right over it without a peep due to the machine being constantly nulled, I dropped to all metal, where I am now slowly going insane listening for a higher pitched "peep" to investigate among the 10,000 iron signals I get in an 8 hour day. I am using Brice's settings, with the exception of being in "ferrous" for obvious reasons. My first question is, is there a better way? Am I doing something wrong? I know there HAS to be something good still there, because I recover coin size bits of copper flashing, aluminum bits, copper tubing, an occasional flat button, bullets, empty shell casings, shotgun caps, etc. It CAN'T be hunted out!!

Question 2...
I was hunting in the side yard, which is just as nail infested, and seems to be 6" of fill dirt over harder clay. I got the SWEETEST REPEATABLE signal I ever heard. So I dug, and dug, and when I got a 6" or so hole, I swept the area, and NOTHING. I used the X1 probe, nothing again. Before digging I checked the FE CO reading and got FE 00 CO 01 and the cursor was in the bottom right corner. After finding nothing, I filled the hole back in, and guess what??? It was back, just as sweet, and same numbers. I also found a second signal that was identical to the first one, but did not dig. I marked both spots and can go right to them if need be. I know if the machine sounds off, something IS there. So question 2, what would cause a 00 01 target ID, and why did it disappear? some kind of hot rock that came in with the fill dirt?
Thank you for any input and HH!
Joe

 

[Tom_in_CA]

A lot of your descriptions are subjective, since the Explorer is so tone oriented. Things like swing speed, repeatability, nulls to one or two sides, etc... can all make differences that ..... can not be described in printed text. It would be like asking someone: "please describe the note of C-minor in print". You can't. It has to be heard. Same for md'ing with the explorer, and trouble-shooting. I too tore my hair out and hated the explorer. Everything sounded the same, blah blah. But the MINUTE I went out with a proficient user, and traded off signals to compare, the "lights went on". I watched the way he swung, I listened in to what he was trying to isolate, and I watched listened and questioned the ones he passed as junk. Only then did it all make sense.

So if you can find a proficient user in your area, to go out and trade off side-by-side signals, maybe he can give some on-site tips. But this may also be a case of simply a lame site. Have you tried lowering your sens. down to about 10, to deal with the null problem? And going to a smaller coil? If it is truly wall to wall nails/iron, then a deep-seeker-powerhouse like the explorer may not be the right machine for a site like that. Some of the 2 filter machines (sabre, bandido, shadow, classics, etc...) will see through a nail or two, to get a conductive hit on a target below. Yes they lack the depth and TID of something like the Explorer, but their averaging and separating ability are better than the deep-seeker class of machines. You may just have a lamo site. Try other sites that give up more coins, to get the hang of your "shiny new SE pro". I do not think a totally trashed junky worked out site, is a good area for a newbie to be learning an Explorer. Better to go to cleaner sites to learn (even if it just means clad in new parks), and THEN go to relicky difficult sites. Another way to learn, is to start with a higher disc. (only accepting copper pennies and up). After a few hours in a new park, digging only dimes and quarters, then drop to including zinc. Do that for a few days. Then drop to include mid range, and so forth and so on, till eventually, you've got all your conductors included. In that way, all the orchestra of tooty-fluty tunes will make more sense since your mind will be more tuned to the songs

 

[Erik in NJ]

n/t

 

[Hotcz70]

There is a night and day difference between the sounds you here between conductive and ferrous tones.

The settings of mine that you are using will probably be worthless hunting in ferrous tones.

The first thing I would suggest... would be for you to decide whether you want to hunt in conductive sounds or ferrous sounds.

After you decide...and you still want to try other peoples settings...make sure the settings you try stay in accordance with the tone selection they suggest as well.

Good luck with whatever you decide

 

[Eu_citzen]

I would suggest trying:

No iron mask
Gain around 5-7.
Semi auto sens at around 18-20 (less sens is more in iron)
Ferrous Sounds
Audio 3 (low tones are still iron but it makes it easier to pick out the none ferrous among ferrous objects, gives a long drawn out tone)
Use Deep or Fast, depends on your own preference.

Hope this helps,
Eu

PS! You will NEED to sweep slow with these settings. If you have never used the Expl with Audio 3, airtest it first.
Also when Relic hunting, dig everything none ferrous relics can be all over the place.

 

[dewcon4414]

A lot of those older places are very difficult to hunt. Roof repairs, buildings removed, and just general trash. AM works, but really takes a lot of patience and time. Sometimes i use a pattern after all elce fails and pick up some pretty interesting stuff. What a pattern will do is reduce your coil sensitivity as you run over disc targets. Sometimes thats a good thing the machine doesnt try to go as deep and there is less trash its sifting thru to process. Also, FERR is a good suggestion if you arent using a pattern. I personally use FAST and DEEP off now in those kind of locations... you miss some stuff but it gives you a better lock and tone. If you are moveing slow you hear all that trash... some say the explorer is slow, if so what so many tones. Its one of the best machines ive used in a situation that requires an almost stopped coil swing. These guys have given you lots of options and it may take trying them all to find one that works best. Now the 00 01 lower right corner is normally something like small rusted metal in the bottle cap range. You may get NO signal with the X-1... try turning on the pinpoint with your probe. It will sound off on ANY metal even small bits. Lastly check you digging tool ive had tiny things stick to it.

Dew

 

[mikeeatsbugs]

well this proves it!... im not the only one! ive been to a bunch of yards like that and i have absolutly no advice.

 

[JoeinMemphis]

Most of the sites I try are loaded with nails etc, so I naturally went with ferrous to easily ID them without having to continually look at the screen. I guess I will have to dig up a new set of settings.... HH Joe

 

[JoeinMemphis]

Thank you. To answer your questions, yes am using the EXcellerator 6" coil, but no I havent tried lowering the sensitivity less than about 19. It may just turn out to be a lame site, but I keep hearing "no site is hunted out" in my head... maybe I have been listening to too many tones . I agree with you about finding a pro, unfortunately I don't even know another detectorist around here regardless of the machine they use. Like the Tony Diana audio CD for the Excal, I see a business opportunity for someone that knows what they are doing. I have 2 broadcast quality video cameras (and know how to use them way better than my explorer) any takers...
HH Joe

 

[JoeinMemphis]

Thank you for your input! I do like the ferrous tones, I guess I got used to them with my Garrett machines, and like it when a low tone is a nail and I don't have to continually check the screen. As to patience and time, I enjoy being out there, and am in no hurry. The land owner has gotten to the point he is so used to me being there on the weekends he gives me the house key and the alarm code now and just says "let me know what you find". I will try the FAST off, I have fast on, and deep off right now. Thank you again and HH Joe

 

[JoeinMemphis]

HAHAHA drives ya nuts doesn't it????

 

[Chris/MA]

I was going to suggest all-metal, but you're already doing that..I do feel it's the right approach though.


That does sound like very bad iron though. However, the fact that you're digging bits of copper and aluminum from in between the iron signals suggests you may not be doing anything wrong, especially if you're managing to find them at any real depth.
Any one of those could easily have been a coin or relic.

Heavy iron sucks and requires real patience to wade through. I spent about half a dozen 3 hour hunts just doing a 25x40 area recently.

 

[tab-nabit]

Some places are a real pain and so full of trash. If it's real trashy, I usually opt for a small coil for a little better separation, work slow and sometimes still end up digging up a bunch of trash - at least I'm getting some trash out of the way. Masking can be a big problem - patience & frustration, or another place to hunt.
If my kids were young tots, I'd bribe them into digging trash one way or another

 

[JoeinMemphis]

Thank you, I will try your settings this weekend, I am already running gain of 7, but never tried audio 3. HH Joe

 

[JoeinMemphis]

I hear ya, I use the plastic tent stakes with colored nylon cord, cut in 10' lengths to do my gridding, somehow it is easier to maintain my sanity when I am looking at a 10' square versus a 40 acre plot! I was thinking the same as you, with copper bits, .22 cases, buttons, etc. I can't be doing everything wrong, and I am sweeping so slowly, even with the 6" coil, I feel like I am mine sweeping with MY life on the line, that 10' square might take a half a hour to wade through. Most of the targets are coming from around 6 inches, and I dont seem to be able to dial in ANY descrimination, as soon as I reject even nails, I am hunting in a complete null from one side of the sweep to the other. Like I said in the original post, I tossed a nickel on the ground and went right over it without a sound. I think AM is the only way I can hunt this site. Thank you for your input, there has to be something here, I just havent found it yet.. HH Joe

 

[Eu_citzen]

Audio 3 "drags out" your tones, making them longer.
The ferrous tones still do their job -High tone none ferrous -low tone iron.
It's just easier to pick out the none ferrous using Audio 3 if you ask me.

You just listen at that low grumble and then when a sudden increase in pitch comes -None ferrous under then coil.


Good Hunting,
Eu

 

[Jim upstate NY]

How long was this placed lived in? anything past 1920 generally you wont find a lot of old stuff.. I have had very bad luck at places that are as old as 1600's and lived in till the present.. so many variables, whether fill dirt and 10 to 20 roofs put on and all the old nails being around the house etc.. I am sure there are many good targets left down there somewhere, either masked or just plain filled under..Then again I have hunted some like places that are quite different and found quite a bit, generally you can tell just how original the grounds are, tree roots above ground a good sign of no fill etc.. so look around and see if there are areas that seem untouched.

What struck me the most was you saying for obvious reasons you didnt use ferrous audio? this is the type of place you want to use ferrous. the iron will be low toned and you can concentrate on the ones that give a higher or hint of a positive signal thats trying to get above that iron tone. Make sure you hit it from every possible angle, sometimes its only possible to get a signal from one angle in high iron ..
I hunt these type areas all the time.. I use one line of iron mask and ferrous audio.. hunt a small area with higher sensitivity if you must, but don't be afraid to drop it way down... if your ground is so full of iron you can not pick up a target on top of the ground you need to lower sensitivity. try it down in the 112-14 range, then again 8-12.make sure you turn your gain down if its high also, it will quiet down iron falses quite a bit if its set at less than 7

As for question 2 you can leave those bottom right target that stay buried in bottom right, those are rusty bottle tops or tin.. the reason it disappeared is when you get them out of the ground they don't usually signal anymore.. putting it back in the hole you will hear it again.. anything far right and less than 3/4 from the top is almost always tin junk.. if they bounce to the left though check them out.. if they stay buried to the right you are not leaving anything good

 

[Jim upstate NY]

I see you were using ferrous.. that how you must do it in iron.. of course I use ferrous everywhere and pretty much run the same as I do in iron every where else as well only chnage I might make is if I am in bottle caps I might notch out bottom right.. just be happy you were using an etrac, or you wouldnt have a choice and would have had to empty your pouches a few times to lighten up the nails

 

[sacul]

I use an Explorer II but rarely for trashy areas - Minelabs have an extremely poor recovery rate! Look at some of Norfolk Wolf's videos on Youtube for actual recovery rate testing. For areas like this, I use a T2 or an XP Goldmaxx Mark I. No amount of tweaking or adjustment will make the Minelab any better in these areas. After many years of detecting I have come to the conclusion that no one detector solves all detecting problems. To think that one detector can do everything is a common misconception. Sure, I have found items in trashy areas with my Explorer using a 6" Excellerator or an 8 inch concentric but results are never as good as with a higher freq., fast recovery unit. A Fisher F75 is also a good choice for these areas. Another thing that you might try is to remove most of the larger pieces of iron and trash by digging it up! For this I use a detuned Garrett ADS III that quickly locates this larger stuff that is close to the surface. Another tip would be to use an older higher freq. TR detector. TR's ignore iron very well but depth is very limited!!!

Determine the actual depth of the topsoil by digging holes in various areas to see what you are up against. Coins mainly stay in the topsoil area as opposed to the rocky clay area below. While you have one of these holes open, bury a coin at various depths to see how the Minelab is doing. You might have a soil condition that is killing your penetration. Trashy areas are never easy and I hope these ideas will help you.

 

[Eu_citzen]

Sacul,
The recovery time is bad IF you use discrimination.
That is the very problem, with no disc it helps drastically, especially with using Audio 3 which gives the iron (ferrous sounds) a low grumble but the none ferrous stuff rises the pitch as you pass over it, actually it seems to over voice the iron sounds.

The Explorer does well in these areas to. Just need to know what you are supposed to listen to.