2 Much Trash
Well-known member
Jeopardy "THE DAILY DOUBLE" 
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Overload sound on the Racer
- Thread starter 2 Much Trash
- Start date
Low-Boy/LCPM
Active member
This is a good thing because if you disc out say iron and you hit a big target that is not deep the overload will sound and you may have missed a good target like an axe head or???
Keith Southern
Active member
Its a powerful unit
it needs to be ran as a powerful unit..
just raise the coil up a little..
.
Let the sites dictate your coil height..2 inches should take care of all but large iron or bigger non ferrous..
most ground cover will take care of the problems...Pinestraw ..Leaves..grass...etc..
Keith
it needs to be ran as a powerful unit..
just raise the coil up a little..
.
Let the sites dictate your coil height..2 inches should take care of all but large iron or bigger non ferrous..
most ground cover will take care of the problems...Pinestraw ..Leaves..grass...etc..
Keith
2 Much Trash
Well-known member
Keith Southern said:
I wasn't being critical about the overload sound on the racer. I like it. I was just thinking of your video referring to the sound being like a 1950's ray gun. And someone else referring to the sound as a nuclear bomb getting ready to explode. On the television show Jeopardy, when a contestant hits the "daily double" the sound effects are just like the overload sound on the Racer..I knew I'd heard that sound before. Just a little humor. I know when I get the Racer and get too close to a shallow target I'll be hollering "another Dailey double"
csarebelva
New member
you only raise it when it hits overload over the target that's causing it to overload .... you get up about two to three inches above the ground and see if you still get any readings .... if you get a number above 50 ...uncover it ...it could be large brass lead or copper
I grew to really like the Nokta FORS CoRe 'Overload' audio, and like the Makro Racer's 'Overload' audio even more! So very distinctive, no doubt about that, and the use of the Overload audio can be very helpful in virtually any type of search. It is a very useful tool, and a great design function in two very versatile, and very sensitive/powerful detectors.
Folks not used to the power and Overload function just need to learn that it is part of the detector design package and, as any 'tool,' they just have to be used to their benefit. I reported earlier, in either a Nokta or Makro Forum post, some of the benefits of the Overload audio. I have used many detectors that lacked any such Overload response, and others that might alert the operator of a target, but only if it was soda can size or larger and within 2" or less, and a coin size target only if it was a larger-size coin and practically touching the coil. What good was that?
I worked a small park in my town a couple of times this past week where I heard the Overload report of a larger target .. quite large and maybe 5" deep or more about 2 ft. square. Pinpoint helped identify it as a larger target as well and sized it for me. When I get any large-target response I make sure I scan around it for any smaller-size target and I found a 7" quarter. Elsewhere in that park I had a quick Overload audio, with the search coil in my typical coil-to-ground position, and also heard a quick 'blip' of an audio response. I lifted the coil only an inch higher and the Overload Audio ceased ... and there was no target response at all from the rejected target that caused the Overload. I was in Di3/3-Tone with Discrimination at '23' to reject iron nails and some other iron, but not all iron, and was using then stock 7X11 DD coil..
With some detectors I have used, if at iron nail rejection I would not have heard anything and they wouldn't have had any Overload Audio to alert me of a rejected target in my search area. In this case I was made aware of some rejected junk and was able to sweep around it to listen for any potentially masked desired target with the coil now lifted about an inch higher. I could then isolate the 'blip' target response which was not clean and clear and no longer masked with by the nearby junk object. I recovered a dime from about 3" to 4" very close to the source of the Overload Audio.
This was much the same as when I located a trade token in a ghost town recently when hunting with Oregon Gregg. In the above description I was using the FORS CoRe w/7X11 DD coil, but in the old town site I was working the Racer with small coil, also in 3-Tone mode and an ID Filter of '23', and first was alerted to metal in the area by the Overload Audio response. My Gain was set at '85' and working the coil around that target, which was rejected and produced no audio response when I raised the coil about 1" to 2" higher, I could hear a favorable high-tone audio from a target within about 3" of the offending target.
At about 4" I recovered the brass type, US nickel-sized trade token. On many occasions I have heard that wonderful Overload alert to a target that was larger-size or just shallow and very close to the search coil, and a quick check by raising the coil told me a lot. If the coil was lifted only ½" or 1" or possibly 1½" higher, the source was usually a smaller object and shallow, or it could be a larger problem metal object, like a length of thick iron fence wire maybe four or five inches away, for example. A higher lift of the coil before the Overload response quit generally meant the offending metal was much larger in size.
Do I always find better responding, higher-conductive good targets close to an offending metal that caused an Overload? No, of course not. But it does happen and wouldn't with a detector that didn't respond well in a dense iron littered site, or one that didn't alert me to hear an offending, masking metal object with such an excellent and useful Overload Audio. It's a very useful tool that works different from, and better than, most detectors I have ever enjoyed hunting with.
A "scrubbing" technique was popular back in the early to latter '70s when people used traditional TR's or TR-Disc. models because they lacked Ground Balance so any variation of the coil-to-ground relationship could cause falsing. Either an increase in audio if the coil was raised away from the ground, or a decrease or nulling from a Threshold audio if the coil was lowered toward the mineralized ground.
Those detectors were not as powerful as sensitive as most quality detectors we use today, and they operated near 100 kHz. With the coming of VLF/TR-Disc. models, the coil could still be scrubbed in the TR-Disc. mode to help, but when we got good motion-based detectors that operated with a Ground Balance Discrimination circuitry, we no longer needed to scrub the ground because that falsing problem was eliminated with a proper, functional Ground Balance. With any GB'ed detector, and especially with the newer models with higher power and greater sensitivity, it is important to keep the search coil at a functional distance from the ground mineral, especially if using a higher Gain setting and/or working over more challenging mineralized ground.
Most manufacturers have long recommended using their detectors with a search coil about from 1" to 2" or even a little more off the ground surface. Why? Due to the negative effect of the intense mineral on the near-portion of the electromagnetic field. The more powerful and sensitive the detector, and also the size and type of search coil used, can make a little difference.
If I am searching a grassy yard or park, and it is well maintained, the grass is often about 1½" to 2" high. In those cases I work the search coil along the tops of the grass or just slightly off the grass just to eliminate any drag or interruption of the sweep [size=small](which also means less fatigue and wear on the equipment)[/size]. If there is no grass, such as when hunting on bare dirt or sand, I also don't want drag to fatigue me or cause an interruption of the search coil's sweep presentation. Nor do I like to hear the double-beeps caused by coins that are too close to the coil.
Since you said you like to "scrub the ground' I'm sure you have noticed that you will not get a nice single 'beep' response from a coin that is too close to the search coil. Instead it usually produces a double-beep or even a different audio hit [size=small](other than the Overload audio)[/size], and to get the best target response you need to lift the coil away from the target a little. Just an inch or two will get the search coil far enough from the metal to allow the detector to get a good 'read' of the metal and produce a clean, single clear 'beep.'
Well, the same can hold true for the coil's position from the ground itself, which also can produce a response because it also has an influence on the electromagnetic field. The higher the Gain setting, the more influence ground or metal targets have on the field. This is why Makro states it is best to search with the coil about 2" off the ground [size=small](Page 6, No. 10)[/size].
Do I scrub the ground? No.
Do I always sweep the coil at a 2" height? No. At times I skim the tops of a mowed lawn, and now-and-then I might work the coil just slightly on the surface of woodchips in a playground, and once I determine a target is deeper than maybe 3" I might get the coil at 'ground level' to help pinpoint the target more precisely and get a Coin Depth read-out [size=small](which I seldom use on any detector)[/size].
Everyone just needs to learn any detector's strengths and weakness, and performance differences with different sized search coils, then determine the best techniques to get the most out of a detector/coil for any site conditions they encounter. So, sure we can use them as we wish, but I do think it a good idea to heed some of the helpful suggestions recommended by the detector designers.
Monte
Folks not used to the power and Overload function just need to learn that it is part of the detector design package and, as any 'tool,' they just have to be used to their benefit. I reported earlier, in either a Nokta or Makro Forum post, some of the benefits of the Overload audio. I have used many detectors that lacked any such Overload response, and others that might alert the operator of a target, but only if it was soda can size or larger and within 2" or less, and a coin size target only if it was a larger-size coin and practically touching the coil. What good was that?
I worked a small park in my town a couple of times this past week where I heard the Overload report of a larger target .. quite large and maybe 5" deep or more about 2 ft. square. Pinpoint helped identify it as a larger target as well and sized it for me. When I get any large-target response I make sure I scan around it for any smaller-size target and I found a 7" quarter. Elsewhere in that park I had a quick Overload audio, with the search coil in my typical coil-to-ground position, and also heard a quick 'blip' of an audio response. I lifted the coil only an inch higher and the Overload Audio ceased ... and there was no target response at all from the rejected target that caused the Overload. I was in Di3/3-Tone with Discrimination at '23' to reject iron nails and some other iron, but not all iron, and was using then stock 7X11 DD coil..
With some detectors I have used, if at iron nail rejection I would not have heard anything and they wouldn't have had any Overload Audio to alert me of a rejected target in my search area. In this case I was made aware of some rejected junk and was able to sweep around it to listen for any potentially masked desired target with the coil now lifted about an inch higher. I could then isolate the 'blip' target response which was not clean and clear and no longer masked with by the nearby junk object. I recovered a dime from about 3" to 4" very close to the source of the Overload Audio.
This was much the same as when I located a trade token in a ghost town recently when hunting with Oregon Gregg. In the above description I was using the FORS CoRe w/7X11 DD coil, but in the old town site I was working the Racer with small coil, also in 3-Tone mode and an ID Filter of '23', and first was alerted to metal in the area by the Overload Audio response. My Gain was set at '85' and working the coil around that target, which was rejected and produced no audio response when I raised the coil about 1" to 2" higher, I could hear a favorable high-tone audio from a target within about 3" of the offending target.
At about 4" I recovered the brass type, US nickel-sized trade token. On many occasions I have heard that wonderful Overload alert to a target that was larger-size or just shallow and very close to the search coil, and a quick check by raising the coil told me a lot. If the coil was lifted only ½" or 1" or possibly 1½" higher, the source was usually a smaller object and shallow, or it could be a larger problem metal object, like a length of thick iron fence wire maybe four or five inches away, for example. A higher lift of the coil before the Overload response quit generally meant the offending metal was much larger in size.
Do I always find better responding, higher-conductive good targets close to an offending metal that caused an Overload? No, of course not. But it does happen and wouldn't with a detector that didn't respond well in a dense iron littered site, or one that didn't alert me to hear an offending, masking metal object with such an excellent and useful Overload Audio. It's a very useful tool that works different from, and better than, most detectors I have ever enjoyed hunting with.
No, not really.foxhunter said:
A "scrubbing" technique was popular back in the early to latter '70s when people used traditional TR's or TR-Disc. models because they lacked Ground Balance so any variation of the coil-to-ground relationship could cause falsing. Either an increase in audio if the coil was raised away from the ground, or a decrease or nulling from a Threshold audio if the coil was lowered toward the mineralized ground.
Those detectors were not as powerful as sensitive as most quality detectors we use today, and they operated near 100 kHz. With the coming of VLF/TR-Disc. models, the coil could still be scrubbed in the TR-Disc. mode to help, but when we got good motion-based detectors that operated with a Ground Balance Discrimination circuitry, we no longer needed to scrub the ground because that falsing problem was eliminated with a proper, functional Ground Balance. With any GB'ed detector, and especially with the newer models with higher power and greater sensitivity, it is important to keep the search coil at a functional distance from the ground mineral, especially if using a higher Gain setting and/or working over more challenging mineralized ground.
Most manufacturers have long recommended using their detectors with a search coil about from 1" to 2" or even a little more off the ground surface. Why? Due to the negative effect of the intense mineral on the near-portion of the electromagnetic field. The more powerful and sensitive the detector, and also the size and type of search coil used, can make a little difference.
If I am searching a grassy yard or park, and it is well maintained, the grass is often about 1½" to 2" high. In those cases I work the search coil along the tops of the grass or just slightly off the grass just to eliminate any drag or interruption of the sweep [size=small](which also means less fatigue and wear on the equipment)[/size]. If there is no grass, such as when hunting on bare dirt or sand, I also don't want drag to fatigue me or cause an interruption of the search coil's sweep presentation. Nor do I like to hear the double-beeps caused by coins that are too close to the coil.
Since you said you like to "scrub the ground' I'm sure you have noticed that you will not get a nice single 'beep' response from a coin that is too close to the search coil. Instead it usually produces a double-beep or even a different audio hit [size=small](other than the Overload audio)[/size], and to get the best target response you need to lift the coil away from the target a little. Just an inch or two will get the search coil far enough from the metal to allow the detector to get a good 'read' of the metal and produce a clean, single clear 'beep.'
Well, the same can hold true for the coil's position from the ground itself, which also can produce a response because it also has an influence on the electromagnetic field. The higher the Gain setting, the more influence ground or metal targets have on the field. This is why Makro states it is best to search with the coil about 2" off the ground [size=small](Page 6, No. 10)[/size].
Do I scrub the ground? No.
Do I always sweep the coil at a 2" height? No. At times I skim the tops of a mowed lawn, and now-and-then I might work the coil just slightly on the surface of woodchips in a playground, and once I determine a target is deeper than maybe 3" I might get the coil at 'ground level' to help pinpoint the target more precisely and get a Coin Depth read-out [size=small](which I seldom use on any detector)[/size].
Everyone just needs to learn any detector's strengths and weakness, and performance differences with different sized search coils, then determine the best techniques to get the most out of a detector/coil for any site conditions they encounter. So, sure we can use them as we wish, but I do think it a good idea to heed some of the helpful suggestions recommended by the detector designers.
Monte
