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- Thread starter Kimber
- Start date
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Unfortunately, this will become more common over time. All it takes are a few sloppy hunters or a few stupid TV shows.
I never ask unless it is private property or state or federal. When you ask these idiots for permission it gives them a position of power (they love power). If you are that worried about it go to city hall and get a copy of the city ordinaces and find out for your self. Don't take some secretaries word for it.
However................in todays mind set .........I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to do it , and see how it goes in City parks. .......
..............
It seems we are getting trickle down effects from Big Brother, Home Land Security, and peoples in general bad attitudes.... I'm Not saying trespass on private property..I am speaking of public Parks
and a few other public in general areas..
I may be wrong.......... and I'm sure you'll all let me know if I am..But Myself, I think from now on I'll just detect, and see who stops me.. I have seen Golfers swing their irons, and do more damage than we do detecting...... It seems we are making our own problems of late asking for permission to use a park for our hobby, that we all pay for with our taxes.....
This is a complete turn around for me.... Where do you stand ???
..............
It seems we are getting trickle down effects from Big Brother, Home Land Security, and peoples in general bad attitudes.... I'm Not saying trespass on private property..I am speaking of public Parks
and a few other public in general areas..
I may be wrong.......... and I'm sure you'll all let me know if I am..But Myself, I think from now on I'll just detect, and see who stops me.. I have seen Golfers swing their irons, and do more damage than we do detecting...... It seems we are making our own problems of late asking for permission to use a park for our hobby, that we all pay for with our taxes.....
This is a complete turn around for me.... Where do you stand ???
Rick N. MI
Member
I agree with you Elton. The biggest town by me is 10000 and there is a lttle park in it. I'm dug many Indian Heads, 1 Morgan silver dollar and many other coins. A few time a city maintance guy would tell me to leave. The last time he said that he was going to call the police and we said go ahead they don't mind us detecting here. I left each time not to cause trouble. Now I only go there on Sunday's when he isn't around.
Rick N. MI
Rick N. MI
TerraDigger
New member
Not to be a armchair attorney...but it would seem to me that if the parks dept has prohibitions on certain activities....it is their 'legal responsibility' to post it (a sign/s) at the park where activity(ies) are prohibited. How else is the general public to know??
BH_Landstar_
New member
If there is NO sign up with the words ...... 'NO METAL DETECTING' .... then it's a free for all in the parks / public lands, just don't take a shovel with you and clean up as you go, make it look as if you was never there, leave no evidence that can be used against you or anyone else. Take a picture of the area before you start and just as you leave too for you records if needed to show how it was when you left etc.. If the police or the Parks / Public Workers ask you to leave, just pack up and come back another day.
Tom from Cal talks of this all the time . Some of the questions asked work against you.
I read of a town in Florida thinking of a parks ban .Stating the destruction of vegetation.
Well it was pointed out that there city owned golf course should be held to the same rules.
Every swing of a club is digging up turf. Good Luck.
Thy backed of with the detecting ban
I read of a town in Florida thinking of a parks ban .Stating the destruction of vegetation.
Well it was pointed out that there city owned golf course should be held to the same rules.
Every swing of a club is digging up turf. Good Luck.
Thy backed of with the detecting ban
Yesterday while hunting in the next town a municipal worker came by to dump his load of landscape waste. I'd seen him before and waved to him. This time he pull his truck up to me and shut the engine. We talked a couple minutes. Turns out he looks for coins without a detector when he he is digging in town. Some of his finds were incredible. Said he even found a gold tooth. He then got out of the truck, reached behind the seat and pulled out one of those military folding shovels. He gave it to me! I thought to myself 'this is ok for private property'. He and his co-workers are very interested in my finds. So far Ive been more than fortunate concerning my detecting. I hope others can work out their detecting headaches. HH. Matt
We walk the Earth as free law abiding grown ups.. typically friendly and no threat to anyone or anybodys property. We are the best people to have hunting at a public park for many reasons. Tom In Ca's advice on this subject is sound. If there is a problem, you can leave, if not swing away...If a cop car rolls up and it looks like you are going to be arrested, if you cant talk your way out of it, just wet your pants and start foaming at the mouth and babbling, nobody wants that in their car!
Mud
Mud
Jason in Enid
Active member
Why the hell do you people keep begging permission on public property?!!!! Jeez, look up the rules yourself. If you don't see an ordinance that prohibits metal detecting, then just go do it and be clean with your holes! You know why nobody else has asked "please may I?" Because nobody really cares. Expect a codified ordinance and new signs in your town in the near future. You might not want to let any other local detectorits know it was YOU who got them banned from the parks.
Critterhunter
New member
NEVER ask for permission to hunt public land if there are no signs saying otherwise. If you call and ask you'll get a "NO" because they people have to cover their *ss in case somebody gets hurt or something. Do you own investigation of the laws and regulations of a park online and if you don't see anything prohibiting metal detecting PLEASE do NOT try to give yourself more confidence by asking permission! Once they say "No" you have no excuse if you get caught detecting there.
You've gotten some good feedback so far (and some people mentioned my name, haha).
Kimber: the long and short of it is, it sounds like you were a victim of the psychology of: "No one cared, till you asked" routine. Notice, for example, that the clerk didn't even know the answer (a question she said hadn't come across her desk). So sure as heck she's gonna float your "pressing question" to legal department, and other such people who likewise perhaps never gave the matter thought before, nor would ever have noticed or cared! But the mere fact that someone calls or writes to ask, simply gives the implicit connotation that something is inherently wrong with your activity (damaging, illegal, or whatever), lest .... why would you be asking, to begin with, if there weren't something inherently wrong with it? You see how that simply dictates your answer? (the subconscious effect is not lost on the bureaucrat, who will simply give the easy answer, when in fact, he may never have paid you a moment's notice, if he were just passing by on the street)
Those clauses about digging, holes, vandalism, alteration, etc.... ALL clearly imply an END result. Thus if you leave no sign of your presence, then by logical definition, you have not "vandalized, altered, left holes", etc.... now have you? But if you leave that in someone else's mental picture (where of COURSE they're going to take the easy answer), what did you expect? You will never win that p*ssing contest debate of semantics when you go grovelling for sanctions. Because let's face it: no matter how you slice it, there's going to be the temporary evil process of extraction. Kinda like nose-picking: sometimes you just gotta be a little discreet, for pete's sake. But if you ask someone "can I pick my nose?" of COURSE they're gonna say "no".
Even you yourself admit that these parks have probably already been detected, and that they're innocuous, and that the answer was arbitrary. And now you're surprised?? Why didn't you look up the laws/rules for yourself? If there's nothing specifically saying "no metal detecting", then ... gee, I guess it's not prohibited then is it? And no, "destruction" and "altering" type clauses I do not define myself as. Because to do so (to make the automatic equivalence that detecting = destruction and holes) then yeah, you might as well give it up now. Because sure, ALL parks forbid alterations, destruction, and vandalism. And since YOU know you'll leave no trace, then why isn't that good enough?
I can think of many cities where detecting had simply gone on since the dawn of time, and no one ever had a problem (unless you were being a nuisance in some other way). But lo & behold, someone takes it upon themselves to waltz into city hall and ask. They get your response. They pass the word to the old-timers that "detecting isn't allowed". The old-timers are left to scratch their heads and ask themselves "since when?, who told you that?". You see how it starts? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (the "squeeky wheel") that ends up getting policies and/or rules in place, to address the "pressing issue". In other words, guess what's going to happen the next time your city-hall people see another md'r in the parks now? They're going to remember this dialogue and think "aha, there's one of them!" and start booting others. I've seen this happen!
So next time look up the rules for yourself (easily available on city websites, or down on the desk in the city charter at city hall, etc...). If it's silent on the subject of metal detecting, then there you go. Naturally, just like nose-picking, pick low traffic times, don't hunt if busy-body gripers are present and studying you, etc.....
Kimber: the long and short of it is, it sounds like you were a victim of the psychology of: "No one cared, till you asked" routine. Notice, for example, that the clerk didn't even know the answer (a question she said hadn't come across her desk). So sure as heck she's gonna float your "pressing question" to legal department, and other such people who likewise perhaps never gave the matter thought before, nor would ever have noticed or cared! But the mere fact that someone calls or writes to ask, simply gives the implicit connotation that something is inherently wrong with your activity (damaging, illegal, or whatever), lest .... why would you be asking, to begin with, if there weren't something inherently wrong with it? You see how that simply dictates your answer? (the subconscious effect is not lost on the bureaucrat, who will simply give the easy answer, when in fact, he may never have paid you a moment's notice, if he were just passing by on the street)
Those clauses about digging, holes, vandalism, alteration, etc.... ALL clearly imply an END result. Thus if you leave no sign of your presence, then by logical definition, you have not "vandalized, altered, left holes", etc.... now have you? But if you leave that in someone else's mental picture (where of COURSE they're going to take the easy answer), what did you expect? You will never win that p*ssing contest debate of semantics when you go grovelling for sanctions. Because let's face it: no matter how you slice it, there's going to be the temporary evil process of extraction. Kinda like nose-picking: sometimes you just gotta be a little discreet, for pete's sake. But if you ask someone "can I pick my nose?" of COURSE they're gonna say "no".
Even you yourself admit that these parks have probably already been detected, and that they're innocuous, and that the answer was arbitrary. And now you're surprised?? Why didn't you look up the laws/rules for yourself? If there's nothing specifically saying "no metal detecting", then ... gee, I guess it's not prohibited then is it? And no, "destruction" and "altering" type clauses I do not define myself as. Because to do so (to make the automatic equivalence that detecting = destruction and holes) then yeah, you might as well give it up now. Because sure, ALL parks forbid alterations, destruction, and vandalism. And since YOU know you'll leave no trace, then why isn't that good enough?
I can think of many cities where detecting had simply gone on since the dawn of time, and no one ever had a problem (unless you were being a nuisance in some other way). But lo & behold, someone takes it upon themselves to waltz into city hall and ask. They get your response. They pass the word to the old-timers that "detecting isn't allowed". The old-timers are left to scratch their heads and ask themselves "since when?, who told you that?". You see how it starts? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (the "squeeky wheel") that ends up getting policies and/or rules in place, to address the "pressing issue". In other words, guess what's going to happen the next time your city-hall people see another md'r in the parks now? They're going to remember this dialogue and think "aha, there's one of them!" and start booting others. I've seen this happen!
So next time look up the rules for yourself (easily available on city websites, or down on the desk in the city charter at city hall, etc...). If it's silent on the subject of metal detecting, then there you go. Naturally, just like nose-picking, pick low traffic times, don't hunt if busy-body gripers are present and studying you, etc.....
Critterhunter
New member
And if somebody not from the park comes up and starts complaining DO NOT defend your right to be there even if you have permission. Just say "I don't want to upset you so I'll pack it up and leave" and get out of there. Chances are you'll never see them again so you can come back to fight another day. If you get into an argument with somebody they'll probably call the city or park office and complain and then it's lights out for you. Even if you have permission to be there if a cop comes due to a call he'll probably ask you to leave so he doesn't get another call back, which looks bad to his supervisor. They only want to resolve the situation to pacify the person complaining, and that usually means kicking you out.
bootyhoundpa
Well-known member
morally you did the right thing by asking....i usualy just read the posted rules and hunt early morn or at times when no other people are around--out of sight out of mind....i also make sure that i leave the place in as good or better shape than i found it that way if an official gives me a hard time they cant find damage to the grass as most parks around here do have that catch all rule about not harming vegitation ....i use my long skinny screwdriver and probe the coins out..its faster and leaves no noticable hole......but like was stated before if an official gives you a problem just play dumb and move on...
" .... morally you did the right thing by asking ...."
Or a person can do the morally right thing by looking up potential rules for themselves, eh? That is equally as law abiding, moral, etc... If there is no specific prohibitions, then no more need to "ask", anymore so than you would need to ask to fly a frisbee.
Or a person can do the morally right thing by looking up potential rules for themselves, eh? That is equally as law abiding, moral, etc... If there is no specific prohibitions, then no more need to "ask", anymore so than you would need to ask to fly a frisbee.