Pro Pointer makes a slob

[dahut]

I was watching a video this evening of a guy using an AT-Pro. I was interested in the detector but I ended up aghast as I watched him recovering his targets.

He was searching a youth camp, well manicured and nicely landscaped. He commented on how nice and peaceful it was. So when he gets a hit with is detector - he goes to work.
First, he cuts open a nice, large hole to give himself some elbow room. Then he shoves his ProPointer into the gap and jabs it around like a hog rooting for a nut.
Oops, missed it. A few more trowel-cuts are made, more dirt is moved and more poking and probing ensues. Eventually he finds his target.
Finally, he shoves all the grass, ragged roots and a few gnarled leaves back in the hole and he's off for some more. It was not pretty.

Seriously, its no wonder grounds people don't like to see us coming. Those so-called "plugs" he was opening are coming up next time the lawnmower comes by. And just wait til the weather turns Texas dry. Can anyone say, "deadspots?"

Back in the day we used rod probes, just a brass welding rod affixed into a handle. With the rod probe, you knew where the item was BEFORE you went to opening up the grass. Often, it only needed a small slit to get out the goodie. This meant a much reduced impact on the turf.

These new electronic probes, on the other hand, begin to look like a crutch when compared to the rod probe. Just honk open a hole and shove it around... you'll find it eventually. If not, dig it up some more! I've been taken by the electro-probe's gadgetry, too - I never really noticed all this until I saw the video.

As I said, I have an electronic probe and I like it.
But I don't use it much in finely manicured grass. That is a unique and particular search environment. I go to the rod probe and slit method, first, mostly out of habit. Sure, it's slower to use and requires more finesse. It is a technique, after all. Only rarely will I cut what one might call a "plug." And even, then it is a flap plug - three sides like a trap door, everything neatly attached by a "hinge" of turf...

Remember, we're talking about tended grass and manicured turf, here; lawns, parks, ball fields, etc. Someone else waters and cuts and cares for it.
The electronic probes are great for loose dirt, or in the fields, woods, etc.They help you find something when it gets into the pile of removed dirt pretty good, too.

But after watching this video, I would like to remind everyone not to complain too loudly about all this. Just be mindful of our publicity when using the electronic probes in the grass.

 

[16penny]

Yea some of those videos I watch on You Tube makes me sick how they recover targets. I am new to this and I do a lot better then some I have seen. I have a Garret pin pointer and once I get a target and it isn't to deep I use it to pin point my target better before I even dig. Most of the time if it is a coin I can pop it out without hardly disturbing the sod. If it is deep I pin point it with the detector and cut a C shape plug and fold it over and use the pin pointer to see if it is in the plug or still in the hole. Most of the time it is really close one way or the other and I get the target without much else.

I have done this for about 3 months now and I have been checking on the places I have hunted to see how my plugs been doing and so far it has been good, Of course we been having plenty of rain so being dry has not been a problem.

So you can't blame the new gadgets that help us. You have to blame the lack of training and careless people that don't care. Common sense People. Common sense.

 

[NM5K]

I think plugs do whack out the grass. I found that out in my own backyard.
If you cut a plug, like you say, it often turns into a dead spot no matter how
careful you mash it all back together.
But I rarely see this when just probing the coins. That's the main reason why
I've never really been much on cutting plugs. I've always used a long screwdriver
that has a polished tip. I jab it about where I think the object is, and pretty much
just erupt the ground up like a mini earthquake. I always use my pinpointer, but
it's not a propointer. It's handy to quickly the find the object. Most of the time with
the clay around here, the coin will be so dirty it can be hard to spot. The pinpointer
instantly tells me where it is.
Anyway, I had bad results using a digger and cutting plugs. It ruins the turf half the time.
I found this out in my yard where I can see the delayed effects.
Where as the cracks that I erupt using the probe method almost never whack the turf.
I'm not sure what the difference is, but it may be that the diggers actually cut the roots,
where as with the probe, I'm just yanking them up a bit, but not cutting them.
When I'm through, it's not like filling in a hole. It's more like pushing the crack in the
earth back down flat. Seems to do a lot less yard damage.
I cringe at some of the manly size craters I see some dig on u-toob..

A lot of it is from not mastering pinpointing with the detector itself. I get pretty close
just with the main detector, so I rarely have to dig a crater to find something.
Many times I'm close enough to stab the object first time with the probe.
I'm still using the same blue handled probe I made about 5 years ago.
I first tried the push rod, and it worked well, but I wanted a handle. So I bought
the screwdriver at Home Depot, and then ground down and polished the end.
It doesn't booger up coins with the smooth tip.
I use the main probe, but I still keep two push rods in the pouch as spare probes.
I have a digger, but rarely ever use it. I use the probe 99.2 percent of the time.

 

[codydog50]

I agree with all of you guys, I have avoided asking permission to search an old City Hall property because "I may take care not to damage the grounds" but the guy who sees me, figures Hey if he
can do it, so can I. then we end up with pulled plugs and dead spots! so no one can hunt! I understand using the pin pointer, it is a great tool. Like you, I started using a brass probe to locate
the coin, Got pretty good at it! you get great satisfaction from locating a coin,then moving the probe around the coin, you get a good Idea of the size of the coin! I have gone so far to widen the hole
and using forceps to retrieve the coin. It may be slow, but no damage to the lawn. I recently took a flat blade screwdriver, placed a 1" long piece of square brass tubing, flattened it and silver soldered
it to the screwdriver blade. makes a great coin flipper! and no damage to silver coins!! Like any tool, the pin pointer has a place in our gear, you just need to know when and where to use it..C-Dog

 

[slingshot]

Thanks-it's killing our hobby.

 

[fongu]

After I pinpoint the target with my coil, I use the propointer to zero in on my target. Then I take my probe and find out how deep it is and make a slit in the grass with my digger and pop it out with the screwdriver. If it's just an inch or less, I just pop it out with the screwdriver and it's a lot better and faster way to recover a coin or other target. When I first started I only dug in my own yard or in the fields or woods around this old church and I was guilty of going to extremes with my holes. Since I've found this forum and thanks to people like Uncle Willy and others, I find it hard to find the places where I recover my coins now. Newbies need to network with veterans and learn from them, but like you say, common sense is required.

 

[Muddyshoes]

Target recovery really is an art form. You have to evaluate every target with the potential for ground damage and then decide which kind of tool to use. It's complicated even more if you are a deepseeking coin hunter. There's a 150 year old city park near me I won't hunt in anymore because they use golf course type of grass and are really protective of their meticulous groundskeeping. I hunt around the perimeter because I don't want to risk being completely banned by leaving any kind of visible ground damage in the main area of the park.

Also, if people are around, I won't dig big holes for a difficult to retrieve target, and I never dig a diameter larger than my fist (and even THAT is a rare occurrence) because I'm not a relic hunter, per se. Sometimes if there are tree roots to work around, a larger hole is unavoidable. I probably abandon maybe 1 out of 50 good signals because of potential for ground damage, or because I don't want to attract too much attention. Also, if there's a belltone directly underneath a 5 inch diameter root, it stays. I'll let some future treasure hunter find it once the tree dies off at some point in the future and is removed.

And any grass roots that are cut, get buried in the hole under the sand. Anything left on top will die and yellow and attract attention. I stomp the dirt in the holes I've filled and then run across it and 'rake' it with my fingers adding in leaves and other debris to give it a more natural look. 90% of my holes you'd never be able to find if you walked through an area I just hunted. 9% might have some dark soil around the area which may stand out if you looked for it, and 1% might be fairly easy to spot that something was going on there.

People aren't just watching you dig, they're watching to make sure you put everything back the way you found it.

- Muddyshoes

 

[John-Edmonton]

It's just about time to remind everyone of how to properly retrieve targets from the ground....too many areas have been shut down to all of us, and once such down, it takes more then a herd of elephants to try to get them opened up again...

 

[5900_XL-1]

It's just about time to remind everyone of how to properly retrieve targets from the ground....too many areas have been shut down to all of us, and once such down, it takes more then a herd of elephants to try to get them opened up again...

Does anyone really believe that telling ourselves this here on this discussion board, will in any way improve "Joe-Public" when they look for stuff with their new metal detector? We are just preaching to the choir. Take my brother as an example, a bad example in a way. We searched a ball field together once a while back. When done I showed all my trash, and asked where his was, and he said, "I just tossed it all back." Now even though he has detected for decades, mainly beaches, and me, just since last year, even he has a lazy attitude, because it's not a primary hobby of his. Just imagine some of the newbies who get a detector for a gift, and then they just go out and start digging holes helter skelter. You won't change them, and they'll probably quit detecting after the first 50 pull tabs anyway, which is probably a good thing. I have no animosity against new treasure hunters at all, I am technically one myself, but with the bargain prices on metal detectors these days from places like WalMarts and the internet...you are gonna simply have terrible digs left from many people. Is defense for some of the THers leaving sightly digs though, at least here in Texas,,,the soil conditions become so grainy and hard here that about anything dug below 3-4" will take finese to get to look normal again once refilled. Sod doesn't flap her much of the time either. City maintained parks and such...maybe. The rest of the terrain I recommend to only surface hunt and pop stuff up with a probe, no diggers. That really dissuades TREASURE hunters looking for more than clad, so you then get the bad diggers who don't care what the hole looks like.

Most of us here reading this do our absolute best to be good diggers in every way, and yet, even we, can still improve, BUT...in essence, this hobby is hosed for public access down the road. It is only a matter of time. Enjoy it while you can. martin

 

[Muddyshoes]

I'm thinking in the long run it may necessitate the need to push for metal detecting licensing. Nobody wants to be taxed, but if it can legitimatize metal detecting in the eyes of our local law enforcement and municipalities, it may keep areas open that much longer.

The way I see it, there are two levels of responsibility here. One is that detector manufacturers need to do more than just publish what I call the "ten commandments of metal detecting" at the back of the owner's manuals. On their DVDs they produce, they need to have a small video to show people how to be responsible, how to retrieve targets without leaving signs that you've been there; essentially "Leave No Trace" principles. Will everyone watch it and pay attention to it? Of course not, but at least they'll have the information. You can only lead a horse to water...

Secondly, we have to be responsible as detector owners, not just to fill in our holes, but to be ambassadors of the hobby. That means stopping to talk to people now and then when we really would rather not. It means leaving when we are asked to leave without causing a scene, and it means to just be nice to people. You don't have to kiss anyone's asses here, but a simple smile and a "hello" when someone walks past you helps diffuse any kind of anxiety a person may feel walking past a grubby person with big ole headphones on and a strange box and pole in his hands.

If you go out with a chip on your shoulder and treat people accordingly, that does as much damage, if not more, than leaving holes unfilled. I've been kicked out of honey holes, but I've generally been allowed to return. It may take a conversation with someone, or it may take a year until I feel that I won't be remembered. It's not like there is a shortage of places to hunt in the mean time.

As a nation we've become uptight, distrusting and impatient. People are just not as friendly as they were 20 or 30 years ago. And sometimes, it has nothing to do with metal detectorists not being responsible. Sometimes, people are just grouchy and want to take it out on anyone. Why NOT go after the grubby looking guy digging holes in the ground?

- Muddyshoes

 

[rich55]

I agree the people here are not the problem I went with a guy that had permission to hunt a friends of his yard it was and older property So I was excited to go with him He was digging for oil on every hole I should him How to dig a small hole and recover his find But as soon as I left him he was digging for oil again I was embarrassed to be with him But his friends did not seem to mind But it bothered me. I guess We need to try and help them But some people get up set if you say anything But if they keep going they ruin it for everyone I love metal detecting but a few will spoil it for us all.

 

[dahut]

I'm thinking in the long run it may necessitate the need to push for metal detecting licensing. Nobody wants to be taxed, but if it can legitimatize metal detecting in the eyes of our local law enforcement and municipalities, it may keep areas open that much longer.

The way I see it, there are two levels of responsibility here. One is that detector manufacturers need to do more than just publish what I call the "ten commandments of metal detecting" at the back of the owner's manuals. On their DVDs they produce, they need to have a small video to show people how to be responsible, how to retrieve targets without leaving signs that you've been there; essentially "Leave No Trace" principles. Will everyone watch it and pay attention to it? Of course not, but at least they'll have the information. You can only lead a horse to water...

Secondly, we have to be responsible as detector owners, not just to fill in our holes, but to be ambassadors of the hobby. That means stopping to talk to people now and then when we really would rather not. It means leaving when we are asked to leave without causing a scene, and it means to just be nice to people. You don't have to kiss anyone's asses here, but a simple smile and a "hello" when someone walks past you helps diffuse any kind of anxiety a person may feel walking past a grubby person with big ole headphones on and a strange box and pole in his hands.

As a nation we've become uptight, distrusting and impatient. People are just not as friendly as they were 20 or 30 years ago. And sometimes, it has nothing to do with metal detectorists not being responsible. Sometimes, people are just grouchy and want to take it out on anyone. Why NOT go after the grubby looking guy digging holes in the ground?

- Muddyshoes

All of which is the logical place my original comments were going. Thanks, 'Shoes. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Uncle Willy]

Som e folks couldn't operate an electronic nose picker without plucking out a three pound booger.

Bill

 

[dahut]

Som e folks couldn't operate an electronic nose picker without plucking out a three pound booger.

Bill

The people need training, Bill. Lots, and lots of training.

 

[fongu]

One thing I noticed was I used to wear my worn out jeans to metal detect and they had holes in the knees and looked like I was a bum. Since I started wearing new jeans or khakis to public places and not looking like some homeless dude, I get more smiles and how you doing from people. I'm not advocating dressing up to metal detect, but you shouldn't look like a hobo either. The first impression you make is the most important one and if you follow that first impression by using smart recovery methods, you add to your reputation as someone to be trusted. It's all about trust, I believe. I firmly believe the reason most people are not as friendly as they used to be is the lack of trust in their fellow citizens. Without trust, you have fear and with fear, you have undue regulations. I've learned over nearly 58 years not to trust the government or the media to be objective, but as a metal detector hobbyist and representative of our hobby, I must earn each and every citizens respect and trust by my appearance and actions. Respect is not an entitlement, you have to earn it and you do this by giving respect. Respect public places by not digging large holes and leaving a mess for others to clean up. I've had people accuse me of being a scavenger for metal detecting, but I've learned to try and be diplomatic and educate these people. Instead of flying off the handle and losing my temper. It's hard sometimes, but people who don't do it right make it hard for all the ones who take the time and recover objects the right way. If you confront their fear with anger, you reinforce their fear in the first place and justify their lack of trust.

 

[5900_XL-1]

I was watching a video this evening of a guy using an AT-Pro. I was interested in the detector but I ended up aghast as I watched him recovering his targets.

He was searching a youth camp, well manicured and nicely landscaped. He commented on how nice and peaceful it was. So when he gets a hit with is detector - he goes to work.
First, he cuts open a nice, large hole to give himself some elbow room. Then he shoves his ProPointer into the gap and jabs it around like a hog rooting for a nut.
Oops, missed it. A few more trowel-cuts are made, more dirt is moved and more poking and probing ensues. Eventually he finds his target.
Finally, he shoves all the grass, ragged roots and a few gnarled leaves back in the hole and he's off for some more. It was not pretty.

Seriously, its no wonder grounds people don't like to see us coming. Those so-called "plugs" he was opening are coming up next time the lawnmower comes by. And just wait til the weather turns Texas dry. Can anyone say, "deadspots?"

Back in the day we used rod probes, just a brass welding rod affixed into a handle. With the rod probe, you knew where the item was BEFORE you went to opening up the grass. Often, it only needed a small slit to get out the goodie. This meant a much reduced impact on the turf.

These new electronic probes, on the other hand, begin to look like a crutch when compared to the rod probe. Just honk open a hole and shove it around... you'll find it eventually. If not, dig it up some more! I've been taken by the electro-probe's gadgetry, too - I never really noticed all this until I saw the video.

As I said, I have an electronic probe and I like it.
But I don't use it much in finely manicured grass. That is a unique and particular search environment. I go to the rod probe and slit method, first, mostly out of habit. Sure, it's slower to use and requires more finesse. It is a technique, after all. Only rarely will I cut what one might call a "plug." And even, then it is a flap plug - three sides like a trap door, everything neatly attached by a "hinge" of turf...

Remember, we're talking about tended grass and manicured turf, here; lawns, parks, ball fields, etc. Someone else waters and cuts and cares for it.
The electronic probes are great for loose dirt, or in the fields, woods, etc.They help you find something when it gets into the pile of removed dirt pretty good, too.

But after watching this video, I would like to remind everyone not to complain too loudly about all this. Just be mindful of our publicity when using the electronic probes in the grass.

"These new electronic probes, on the other hand, begin to look like a crutch when compared to the rod probe. Just honk open a hole and shove it around... you'll find it eventually. If not, dig it up some more! I've been taken by the electro-probe's gadgetry, too - I never really noticed all this until I saw the video."

I got to thinking again after re-reading your message, especially this part above, and it brought two things to mind. One, everyone has their 'education trail' in any endeavor they chose, and #2. Most advice from these metal detecting discussion boards when asked, "When do I decide to not keep digging?" is...never give up. Sure there are common sense rules, but that mainly comes with a lot more experience than many people today buying and swing a detector, has. Actually there is a third point that came to mind though, and it concerns the Pro Pointer as a cause here. I dug far, FAR bigger holes when I was simply waving handfuls of dirt in front of the coin.

I have a question for ya though dahut. You show in your profile to live in the Carolinas, and you mention Texas dry. Was that an observation about the video being filmed in Texas or what when you said that about Texas dry? One thing I've personally found about Texas soil is that the consistency of it is one of two things...hard and/or dry, mealy as coffee grounds and the auras from buried deeper targets throw off the PPr in the detector way off most of the times. Most any pinpoints I've ever dug down here has rarely been right under the coil, unless I am working only the 2-3" deep targets. If that guy was digging down past 4", then I can't totally hold him guilty with having to scour deeper. The Pro Pointer is the best thing I ever bought after the detector itself, and it had really limited the bigger holes I've dug since getting one. I'll admit though that it many times still takes bigger holes to get close enough for even the Pro Pointed to bark. The dirt is just not as sweet down here.

Using a rod probe here where I live???, mostly useless with this concrete like ground we deal with in North Texas. Real shallow targets maybe, but those are usually all found already anyway. martin

 

[Chuck in KY]

Hey Uncle Willy Ya sliped one in on us. Welcome back, sounds like the old Bill is back. Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dahut]

Some great points. Thanks!

Sure there are common sense rules, but that mainly comes with a lot more experience than many people today buying and swing a detector, has.

This is likely the situation here. I have over 20 years' practice at detecting. I had never heard of niceties like the Pro Pointer when I began. The rod probe is second nature to me.
Indeed, the young guy in the video was probably spooning Gerbers back when I got my first Tesoro. But like me with the rod probe, he was falling back on learned habit. This was not his first detecting session. Drop to the ground, whip out the trowel, stab and cut... then probe. This wasn't a lack of training. It was more like bad training.

Actually there is a third point that came to mind though, and it concerns the Pro Pointer as a cause here. I dug far, FAR bigger holes when I was simply waving handfuls of dirt in front of the coin.

In this case, he didnt bother to use the probe to locate the coin before digging. The ProPointers have a range off the tip of about 3"-4," right? If that is so, he could have easily pinpointed them with the probe BEFORE he ever hauled out the diggers. The probe I personally use has only about a 1"-1.5" range, which is fine. Poke the rod probe, first. Pinpoint better, first. Make small incisions, first. Etc. Remember we're talking about manicured grass.

.... and you mention Texas dry. Was that an observation about the video being filmed in Texas?

Yes.

One thing I've personally found about Texas soil is that the consistency of it is one of two things...hard and/or dry, mealy as coffee grounds and the auras from buried deeper targets throw off the PPr in the detector way off most of the times. Most any pinpoints I've ever dug down here has rarely been right under the coil, unless I am working only the 2-3" deep targets. If that guy was digging down past 4", then I can't totally hold him guilty with having to scour deeper.

The soil he was over was dry-ish. But it was loose, and the grass was soft. He had no problem stabbing his way through the turf and into the the soil that I noted... as mentioned, he did it with practiced ease. The season appeared to be cool and the targets were not deep. By these appearances, rod probing would have been possible.

What gets me is the lack of discretion - that one thing is going to kill this hobby for all of us. The guy was well intended - he was offering what he thought was a nice "field test" of the detector. But I saw yet another guy hacking at the grass... and I was troubled.

 

[Muddyshoes]

What gets me is the lack of discretion - that one thing is going to kill this hobby for all of us. The guy was well intended - he was offering what he thought was a nice "field test" of the detector. But I saw yet another guy hacking at the grass... and I was troubled.

Uh oh, Dahut... then you're probably NOT going to like the new Garrett tool I've started using for coin recovery now...

- Muddyshoes

 

[khouse]

I've seen those vids too. I also gripe about the long handled shovels in the parks. Plus telling them a funnel shaped plug will die and come right out. I can say that almost every reply goes like this. "I've been doing it this way for years with no trouble" I'm tired of preaching. .........................................................