Public Perception Of Metal Detectorists During The Past 50 Years?

[John-Edmonton]

Recreational metal detecting has been available to many for the last 50 years. During this time, thousands of lost articles have been returned to their proper owners. Yet, we are seeing places either shut down or restrictions added. Do you think we are more widely accepted as a hobby today compared to 50 years ago, or have we made more of a negative impact upon ourselves?

 

[doc holiday232]

More busy bodies and bureaucrats today---instead of "public servants" they are self appointed police.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

Locally the archaeologists have the ear of local governments. They worry themselves sick that some person with a metal detector might find something. So they cause more and more government properties to be put off limits to metal detecting.

Kids digging huge holes in the beaches have resulted in "No Metal Shovels" and No Holes on the beaches. Even though a scoop is not a shovel and we fill our holes (and take the trash to the proper place) we are viewed as the ones causing the holes in the beach.

My point of view is that control hungry politicians are always looking for some way to extend their power. We are easy to blame because we can not make ourselves invisible.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... the archaeologists have the ear of local governments. They worry themselves sick that some person with a metal detector might find something. So they cause more and more government properties to be put off limits to metal detecting....

George, you're right that there is usually an archie minded consultant person somewhere in the hierarchy of very-large park staffs . I mean, on the state and federal level. Since, of course, there is often historically themed parks within the fed. and each state. And nobody (not even us md'rs) would argue with the noble idea of preserving cool history. Right ? I mean, let's be dreadfully honest: Even us MD'rs would agree that it's not right to allow some yahoo to go digging up Bodie, Shiloh, Gettysburg, etc... ? And taking home the stuff "out of context" to be sold for personal profit, blah blah. Right ? Even the most brazen anti-archie md'rs like myself and you can agree with this. RIGHT ?

But stop and think for a moment: What are the numbers of those archie-type persons, who weigh in on such decisions ?? I mean, in AN ENTIRE STATE (restricting the conversation to state parks, for example) : What are the entire #'s of those purist-type archies ? I bet very few. On an entire state's state park payroll, I bet there's a meager 1 or 2 or 3, in any given state, that would be of this mindset.

Yes I agree that any-such-policy decision , when it comes to an md'ing related decision, Does indeed "cross their desk for approval". But seriously, aside from that paperwork ivory tower input, what are the odds that 1, or 2, or 3 persons in a state, are likely to cross your path ? I mean, seriously, aside from a few pits 6' x 6' pits they dig (and spend all summer in a single spot doing), what are the odds that that person is going to bump into an md'r ? And say "me oh my, gee, let's invent a law". ? Odds are slim. The odds are, that outside of the 6 x 6 ft pit they dig now and then, that they NEVER see an md'r "in the middle of the forest" or desert or beach or whatever. And the other standard rank and file park workers could care less.

So ask yourself : If those lone individuals (1 in 1,000,000) are not "bumping into you and I" , then : What brings this "pressing issue" across their desks ? What puts us on their radar ?

I have a sneaking suspicion of how this "pressing issue" gets on their radar as something that "must be addressed". Do you know what that is ? :veryangry:

 

[ewtaylor]

A few years back, the KY legislature started a proposal to allow metal detecting in state parks. The House passed it. I've been detecting for 30+ yrs. I'm also heavily involved, or at least was back then, with historical societies and Civil War historical groups here in the Commonwealth. Someone told me about the bill going up for the state senate to vote on and I was excited.

Then, I started receiving emails from the various Archie, Historical groups, and others who know nothing about detecting. They were outraged KY's historical treasures were going to be looted, GRAVES WERE GOING TO BE ROBBED, and so on and so forth, you can imagine all the things these goof balls were saying. Needless to say it was easily defeated in the Senate.

The bill being defeated didn't surprise me, it was the negative view that so many people put upon detectorists I found appalling.

 

[pasttom]

We live in an age where theory trumps (no pun intended) reality and actual documentation. The highly over educated mindset is socialist and sees everything as a government property or resource. A persons finds are seen as a theft from the collective. In reality the archies would likely bury most things in a basement like Indiana Jones' Arc of the Covenant. My sister once saw a beautiful arrowhead on a hike in Arizona. She had just been lectured about not picking up such things and left it. The very next day she went by it again and a wild sheep had crushed it to virtual dust. This is the fate of much of what is left for time and hazard to reclaim. The dislike for the finder is greater than the love of the find. Indy the Nazis are still with us!
IMHO

 

[Architex]

Well for what effect it may have, I'm saving all my trash from a large park that is mostly where I hunt. I had to be permitted to hunt here. At the end of the season I'm going to scatter my trash over the driveway, photograph it, and sent that to the person in the Park Dept. that gave me the permit. Along with a few comments about the dangers of sharp edges of aluminum, etc. A small thing but it's something.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....and I was excited.

Then, I started receiving emails from the various Archie, Historical groups.......

EW-taylor, Then what is the lesson played out here ?? It sounds like THE LESS THEY THINK OF US, the BETTER. Eh?

But instead, md'rs seem to rush to the opposite. They "get excited" when a proposed law "allowing" (as if we need express allowance in the first place) is on the table for discussion. But instead, as you saw, the attention only conjurs up images of "geeks with shovels", "looting our past". And THEN guess what happens ?? Instead of more freedoms for us, they dream up more restrictions. But ... Gee .... aren't we all glad we put ourselves front & center on their radar now ?? The very same people that .... truth be told .... probably never thought of us, nor would ever have bumped into us. But we insist on putting ourselves on their vote plate .

I am very aware of your KY situation/evolution. Are you aware that some purist archies there (perhaps the same ones you allude to here) attempted to say that state or federal level cultural heritage issues subrogate down to county & city levels. Meaning that anything that could result in "no md'ing" at some state park ALSO applies to city and county level lands. Since, of course, counties are a sub-entity of the larger state. And cities are a sub-entity of the larger county. Right ?

AND THEY WENT ON RECORD CLAIMING THIS. But this is utterly nonsense. Laws & rules differ between entities and parks ALL THE TIME !! One allows camping, another doesn't. One has a dog leash law, the other is silent on the subject. One closes at sunset, another closes at 5pm. Blah blah blah. There is no requirement that a stricter federal or state park level law automatically subrogates down. Because if that were true, then we'd have to say that all 50 states, the same is true. And .... lo & behold ... last I checked, .... there is NO SHORTAGE of finds being made from city and county parks all over the place.

Hence seriously now : Does anyone else, besides those few lone KY archies who emailed you CARE LESS ? Of course not. Thus the less those "few lone archies think about us", the better.

I know it sounds wonderful to have a law on the books that "allows" md'ing (especially if a true law existed prior to that , that truly forbade md'ing). But as your case has shown, that RARELY EVER, when md'rs are granted an "express allowance", is there ever any good that comes out of it. Instead, all it does, is put us front & center for more restrictions. And even if they *did* "allow" it, you can bet it would be riddled with silly-ness. Eg.: sandy beaches only. Or turn in all your old finds. Or not within 20 ft. of any tree. Or digger tool shall not exceed 3" in length. Blah blah blah.

Much better that it is A) Simply silent on the issue (no express allowance nor forbiddance). Or B) that rank & file persons are simply not appraised of "this supposed evil", and we remain ignored.

 

[Jerry Ga.]

In my area there is so much negative opposition it almost makes me want to give up the hobby.

The two main complaints are:

Leaving unfilled holes.

Trespassing to detect without permission.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

In my area there is so much negative opposition it almost makes me want to give up the hobby.

The two main complaints are:

Leaving unfilled holes.

Trespassing to detect without permission.

Jerry,

I don't disagree that : 1) Leaving un-filled holes and 2) detecting private property w/o permission are going to leave bad tastes in non-md'rs mouths.

But curious: Have you run into Average-Joe non-md'rs who cite these as reasons for "dis-liking md'rs" ? And if so, HAVE THEY EVER ACTUALLY SEEN INCIDENTS of those occurrences ?

Because whenever someone (a non-md'r) alludes to such mental inferences, I'm not so quick to think "Durned that md'r who didn't fill his holes" and/or "durned that md'r who jumped a fence". More often than not, this is simply the mental projection that some bureaucrat jumps to, to justify the "no" they just passed out (to someone's "pressing question"). It doesn't necessarily mean that they knew of "holes". That's often just the knee-jerk reaction that some people have, when tasked with the concept of "a man with a metal detector in the park". WHETHER OR NOT holes were actually ever left.

And same with the trespassing/fence jumping "go to" mental picture: The moment a single night-hawker news story ever makes the rounds, well, then gee, a non-md'r might jump to that conclusion when tasked with thinking about md'ing.

For example: I met an indian artifact collector from the Pacific Northwest once. And when I mentioned my hobby, he actually thought md'rs were crank addicts who get cranked/wired up, so that they can go look for arrow-heads for 3 days straight w/o sleep, blah blah. Why ? Because he'd read some article where some cops cracked down on indian artifact hunter/sellers who WERE actually some sort of dope-heads. Does that mean that all Indian artifact hunters are .... likewise ... dope heads ? NO ! Of course not. But do you see how a single article of fence hopping or addiction-fueling, etc... can steer the notions of casual readers ?

So what I'm saying is: Don't be so quick to think that just because you hear of a "no" because of "holes" and "fence hoppers", doesn't necessarily mean that the person alluding to such things can cite any such incident. Often-time it's just their go-to reason for the "no" they just passed down to you. With no basis in reality.

 

[Digger 45]

This is all pretty simple, if we do like we should, leave an area with no trace that we have been there, there will be no problem and evidence of destruction to complain about.

 

[HaroldILL.]

I think Metal detecting was always a small cult type hobby not meant to go main stream with YouTube videos. On top of it most the videos miss represent the Hobby as finding Silver on every outing. But worse is the shovels in a public park. It just seems to be excepted nowadays You use a Shovel. Now You get half dozen or so hitting a Park or other public land it's just a recipe for disaster. Call Me a Grumpy old man but this is a fly under the radar not draw attention Hobby. We lost about 90% of Public property do to these YouTube Newbs. I suspect all Public Property will be off limits in another Year or two. It sucks for us who truly love History to lose sites We been detecting for 20 Years to Johnny come latly's who are just in it for greed or because it's the latest fad.

 

[still looking 52]

I believe metal detecting is viewed more negativity now because of the you tube videos, a lot of these guys are messing up the area within where they detect and causing us to have a bad image.
Like Tom says, keep a low profile and stay off the radar is probably our best bet.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... negativity now because of the you tube videos,.....

You guys think that any non md'rs are logging on to their 'puters, going to Youtube, and watching md'ing videos ? I doubt it. That would be like if you logged on to Youtube, and went to watch knitting videos. Or videos on the hobby of bird-watching, etc....

Thus on the contrary : Only knitting enthusiasts are prone to watch knitting videos. Only bird-watching enthusiasts would be prone to watch bird videos. And so forth.

I highly doubt anyone who dis-likes md'ing, has come to that conclusion because he got on his puter, had some compelling compulsion to do a key-word search on youtube "metal detecting". Watched a few videos and concluded "I don't like md'ing".

I think the average non-md'r never pays this hobby any mind. But for us md'rs who like this, we gravitate towards, and see an md'r from a million paces away. And we log on to our 'puters and youtube and do key-word search "md'ing". So ... for example ... if you're driving down the road, and see someone swinging a detector in the distance, you're likely to notice it. But for the non-md'r, they probably would never even register it. Unless you pointed it out to them. And even then ... they'd say ... "so what ?"

 

[HaroldILL.]

Tom You would be Suprised once You go down the YouTube rabbit hole. I heard a lot of Newbs on Facebook and Forums say they never knew what Metal detecting was till they saw a YouTube video or a Metal detecting show. I totally disagree with You on that point.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom You would be Suprised once You go down the YouTube rabbit hole. I heard a lot of Newbs on Facebook and Forums say they never knew what Metal detecting was till they saw a YouTube video or a Metal detecting show. I totally disagree with You on that point.

Well, I don't doubt that if you asked someone, that ... yes ... that would be their answer. But I attribute it to the following psychology :

So too, when/if you asked some power-that-be: "Hi, can I metal detect in the park?", that they might say "no". And if you asked "But why?" Guess what they would say ? They would say : "Because of holes". Right ? And then the md'r is left cussing under his breath: "Durned that md'r that left holes". Right ?

But I'm of the opinion that this is merely the "go-to" perception that some non md'rs have of us . WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVER SAW HOLES. In the same way, ... sure .... if you or I task someone to develop an opinion on md'ing, then ... just like the supposed "holes", they also might say they "saw a video". But whether or not they ever did, or whether or not it actually "steered their opinion" is the question. And I bet that .... the average Joe could care less, nor watches videos, etc....

To test this theory, ask yourself : How many bird-watching videos have you viewed on Youtube lately ? How many knitting tutorials ? How many street sweeper videos have you watched ? After all, you might someday own a street sweeper company like I do, and .... you'd need to know the merits of Tymco vs Elgin vs Shwarze brand, right ? OF COURSE YOU HAVEN'T. Nor do you care one iota.

But sure, if you press the person who's handing out the "no", or making some derogatory comment, then .... it's subconscious memory bias, and they will say how they saw someone leaving a hole, or saw a video where a guy used a shovel, etc.....

 

[bulletman]

I had two cops come up on me while detecting a country soccer field. I really thought they were going to arrest me for sure. They accused me of tearing up the soccer field, which I was not. Actually leaving the field in better condition and much safer condition removing the can slaw that can cut up knees and hands. Of course, they did not buy my explanation, so I left. I, then contacted the city manager, who informed me that there were no ordinances against metal detecting upon city property - and he invited me back to his town. Needless to say, I have not been back there, and can spend my money elsewhere

Their loss - even though they really don't give a damn. I have been detecting since the late 80's and this one recent meeting with the police has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I do know that there are HUNDREDS of warrants for arrest within my county, yet, these officers find it EASY to confront me while participating in a harmless hobby. I guess they would rather have the drug dealers/users, murderers, rapists and thieves using their parks! And what cowards they are, harassing an easy target like me, instead of going after someone upon the arrest list.


Bulletman

Shalom

 

[still looking 52]

I had two cops come up on me while detecting a country soccer field. I really thought they were going to arrest me for sure. They accused me of tearing up the soccer field, which I was not. Actually leaving the field in better condition and much safer condition removing the can slaw that can cut up knees and hands. Of course, they did not buy my explanation, so I left. I, then contacted the city manager, who informed me that there were no ordinances against metal detecting upon city property - and he invited me back to his town. Needless to say, I have not been back there, and can spend my money elsewhere

Their loss - even though they really don't give a damn. I have been detecting since the late 80's and this one recent meeting with the police has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I do know that there are HUNDREDS of warrants for arrest within my county, yet, these officers find it EASY to confront me while participating in a harmless hobby. I guess they would rather have the drug dealers/users, murderers, rapists and thieves using their parks! And what cowards they are, harassing an easy target like me, instead of going after someone upon the arrest list.
That's what I refer to as the Barney Fife syndrome, after they finished harrassing you they headed to the donut shop.

Bulletman

Shalom

 

[HaroldILL.]

Yep the same thing with are Forest Preserves We lost.
They are full of Drug addicts, Prostitutes, And Homosexuals cruising in the woods. But they are worried about someone Metal detecting the land We pay taxes on? We even tried to get a permit system which We were willing to pay as high as a 100.00 a year to detect and they turned it down. No wonder this State is BK and everyone is leaving.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yep the same thing with are Forest Preserves We lost.
They are full of Drug addicts, Prostitutes, And Homosexuals cruising in the woods. But they are worried about someone Metal detecting the land We pay taxes on? We even tried to get a permit system which We were willing to pay as high as a 100.00 a year to detect and they turned it down. No wonder this State is BK and everyone is leaving.

Harold, I am well aware of the evolution of the forest preserves that you speak. I followed that news story very carefully . Trying to understand "how did this ever start ? " Ie.: "Who the heck ever cared ??" Because, as you surmise, how the heck is "holes" ever going to be pointed to, as the issue, if we're talking about "middle of forests". Right ? We're not talking about manicured turf, right ? Ok, so .... the million dollar question is : WHY ?


Your post is very revealing in the answer. Because you logically point out that others are causing pollution, destruction, etc.... Right ? Others are un-willing to pay a permit cost. Right?

Ok then, as yourself : WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU, and the "prostitutes, homosexuals, drug addicts, etc.... " ???

Here's the difference: The drug addicts, prostitutes, homosexuals, dog-walkers who don't clean up after their dog etc..... Didn't do one thing that md'rs ..... somehow .... feel they need to do : They failed to ask : "Hello. Can I please leave my condom here ? " Because if they had, they most assuredly would have been told "no". Then they too could start forums lamenting their lack of freedoms . Heck, they could have suggested a $100 per year permit to "leave their condoms and needles there". Guess what the bureaucrat's answer would have been ??

Same for used needles, dog poop, etc.... None of them "asked" . None of them suggested permits. Shame on them.

So what's the take away lesson here for md'rs in that forest preserve ?? The lesson is: Sometimes md'rs can be their own worst enemies. People there went and swatted hornet's nests, and ... presto : Got a "no". Ok, so now what ???