:pulltab: on the F75 LTD in BP mode :rage:

[Cal_Cobra]

Many, many times when I'm turf hunting in BP mode I'll get a GREAT sounding dime or quarter signal, sometimes deep (8"+), sometimes not, and it'll turn out to be a

I'm not really seeing a particular pattern, it can be the newer square tabs, complete round tabs, broken beaver tails, etc. Sometimes these will ID properly, and other times not. What I do notice is that when their not, the erroneous ID's tend to be fairly consistent at the spot I'm hunting (of course valid coin targets still hit those same TID #'s), perhaps the ground conditions (mineralization, moisture, GB, etc) factor into the equation. Of all the machines I've used, I've never seen one as determined as the F75 LTD in BP mode to make a pull-tab look like such a good target Round wino caps are bad enough, but throw in pull tabs too and it can drive a guy to

I'm thinking about saving all the pull tab specimens that hit dime or higher, packing them into a large USPS Priority Mail flat rate box, and sending them to Dave Johnson to examine Surely there must be some property of these specific pull-tabs that FRL can examine that would help them to design better TID algorithms on their future flag ship detector

 

[jmaryt]

good luck with that!.(lol!)..why not start an aluminum salvage co.?
you may have a bright future!..i hear ya!..i think the inventor of the "pull
tab" should be boiled in bp's oil!....nasty!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Elton]

register on the confirmation meter mostly..Oh yea once in awhile they do..but usually on a couple bars show up in my soil..........I have tried to get a range on date of those pesky pull tabs and most that id like a coin seem to be from the 60's era.............But seriously look at your confirmation bars ....might save you some digging..

 

[Elton]

I still dig a fair number of thse old rusted things ....and find an occassional church key !!

 

[boxofchocolates]

Brian,I got some of that same thing with dime size folded up aluminum foil at 6 inches...... hitting like a good target......hh......Dan

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Of all the machines I've used, I've never seen one as determined as the F75 LTD in BP mode to make a pull-tab look like such a good target

Then you have never used an Exterra it pulls that trick a lot. Some up averaging is to be expected and in truth helps out in some situations but the X-70 I had was ridiculous.

Tom

 

[DKinPA]

please post it! Brian, I have two sites that are doing the exact same thing. Not being able to "test" soil I can tell you I have noticed two common factors...first, the pull tabs that do this to me are all deep, at least 6 inches or more, second....they ID low mid-tone out of the ground every time. I have noticed the ground balance and FEO meter readings are similar in both these locations, GB will run 62-65 and FEO will be up two or three notches.
I typically run BP, Sens 65-75 (or hotter if the ground allows), disc at 6 and factory preset notch. I have "tested" a couple of these signals by changing modes and dropping the disc but have noticed no change in tone, I have actually "lost" a few in DE mode. And I have noticed as Elton said, the confidence meter does not "hold" high on these tabs.

HH

Dave

 

[boxofchocolates]

I rely on the confidence indicator a lot but can be fooled by co located targets......hh.....Dan

 

[jmaryt]

yeah!..me too!..when they have surface rust on them,they sound sooo good!..tough to pass 'em by,especially if they have any depth to them!.
ya just don't want to let 'em go!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[dgc]

Seeing the same thing with my F75-LTD. In fact, seems like many of the "low conductors" up average in my soil. I've dug many plain flat buttons that ring out as dime or above in the ground. When I drop my Sunray FX-1 into the hole, the tone drops to tab or zinc range. Dug a few pull tabs that have done the same thing. My soil is clay, 65-70 GB, and usually two bars on the Fe3O4 meter.

 

[markg]

I don't know about the LTD and boost mode, but on my regular F75 I've yet to dig a deep coin where the VDI numbers didn't jump around a lot.
By this I mean, on my machine if the numbers don't change a lot it's usually a coin.
Just my 2 cent worth.

 

[SPONNIE73]

I've found in all modes including BP any coin that is 8 inches or more does not have a stable TDI #. At those depths the numbers jump all over. But at 8 inches or less the LTD can be pretty darn accurate with the ID of coins and pull tabs in any mode. The sounds the LTD makes can change quite a bit when you change modes and sensitivity settings, better sounds with BP process. I'm thinking that what you hear would probably be a better method to ID objects at all depths but I'm not that good so I'll continue to dig all the junk

 

[markg]

Coming for the old machines where you only had audio, when in doubt go by the sound first.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I've found in all modes including BP any coin that is 8 inches or more does not have a stable TDI #. At those depths the numbers jump all over. But at 8 inches or less the LTD can be pretty darn accurate with the ID of coins and pull tabs in any mode. The sounds the LTD makes can change quite a bit when you change modes and sensitivity settings, better sounds with BP process. I'm thinking that what you hear would probably be a better method to ID objects at all depths but I'm not that good so I'll continue to dig all the junk

In the scenario I initially described, most of the time I'm not seeing a jumpy TID, the TID in many cases locks on just fine, showing an 80's TID # that looks solid and sounds great, yet when dug out pops a

Now if I'm in a spot where I'll dig all iffy signals, all bets are off and many times I'll dig a lot of junk (including iron), but that's the nature of the beast when going after the iffy in search of the fringe goodies and I can accept that.

One thing that I think would be a great feature is to be able to disable the F75 LTD's ability in BP mode of upaveraging tiny targets and making them look and sound like BIG targets. If coin shooting for deep silver coins, I don't really care about digging a deep tiny dodad. A feature like BIG OFF would be great in these scenarios. If you're relic hunting, this is a great feature, but it's not so great turf hunting old parks for deep silver.

HH,
Brian

 

[boxofchocolates]

Brian,Just thinking about changing sens way down as a check before digging may shed some light on this......hh......Dan

 

[marcomo]

Brian - I'm sure Dave Johnson will get all excited when he gets your box of tabs, maybe we could start a "hits like or kinda like a coin" tab collection for him

I'm finding the F75 LTD is what it is.

It's that souped up muscle car with a teenage driver...

All the power you could want, but not exactly highly refined.

I'm finding pulltabs hitting all over the place.

From what they say, the F75 is a lot easier to use than many other top of the line machines (Explorer, V3, etc)

But there is a sizable learning curve for my relatively inexperienced arse.

A few I've noted lately:

Don't ignore the solid one way hits in busy areas. I've been finding a lot of masked coins in those busy areas hitting one way only (lower readings the other way, but still non-ferrous)

For the second time now, the little 5" has allowed me to hunt with sensitivity significantly up when the 11" was getting killed by EMI. That little 5" is deep, and I always seem to pull good stuff up when I switch to it. And like any small coil, it tames otherwise frustrating areas that are loaded with targets.
.
I'm finding BP works the best for me in older areas that have produced for me in the past and that I considered relatively hunted out. I know, I know, no area is ever hunted out. But I've had good luck popping up more old coins at what I considered my three best old sites. That I considered "relatively" hunted out.

BP has found me some good finds, but it's put a lot of extra trash in my can too. That's why I pick my spots with it.

 

[dgc]

Brian I really appreciate your starting this thread. I had been wondering if my F75 LTD had somehow shifted in calibration because I was seeing so many mid tone conductors ringing out like silver in the ground. Looks like it is common to the LTD. I am a little reluctant to rely on the confidence meter on deeper targets so that won't be much help to me. Maybe there is something else that can be done to sort this out.

 

[tvr]

Yes, an interesting thread. I have seen some deeper tabs up-average some compared to what they are out of the ground, but not into the ID ranges some of you report. If I find aluminum with an ID around 80, it is most if not all of a can; and that will show as a much bigger target (and one of the few that the LTD says is shallower than it really is).

Wonder if a combination of corrosion and ground composition combine to make higher up averaging?
tvr

 

[Scully]

Are you guys finding iron with or near these deep pull tabs? Deep, clean targets will usually down-average, but if they are near iron (only the deep targets) they will tend to up average.

Scully

 

[ziphius]

Brian,

Same experience as you with pulltabs, even small pieces, heck, ESPECIALLY small pieces of pulltabs mimic deep high conductor signals. And it is NOT a result of iron being co-located in almost every situation. I dug so many damn pulltab fragments that sounded and ID'ed like high conductors in my favorite turf park. It's one reason I'm an E-Trac user in trashy parks now. I've never dug a pulltab here with the E-Trac without knowing it was a mid-conductor first (sometimes I go on turf fishing expeditions for deep buffalo nickels and gold). But in open field relic type situations.... I'm reaching for my F75. Oh, and my pulltab "up-averaging" experience is with the flagship F75, not the LTD. So.... they didn't fix it when they made the jump from the flagship machine to the LTD. - Jim