Question for all the ETrac users here.

[go-rebels]

i beleave its both as well. ive found coins under nails at depth of around 11 inches. sometimes there has been more than one iron object over the coin. i even found a wheat in a rusted tin match box at about 7 inches. how it sounded off that a penny was there is beyond me. i thout it was a false signal when i dug up the rusted box but i tapped it on my shovel and it broke open and the wheat fell out of it into my hand.
now that made a beleaver out of me. i posted pics and wrote about it so look it up.
the etrac is magic

Have others ever found a coin under a nail? I have this scenario in my test bed (nail @ 1", silver dime at 4") and I've never found a machine that could detect that dime. My exploerer II with Pro coil could never see the coin no matter what the setting and I trield like hell knowing it was there. Nor my Sovereign, Whites XLT, F75 or F75LTD.

 

[Southwind]

Yes quite often actually. I have dug coins only to find a rusted nail in the same hole, and rusted nails, only to find a coin in the same hole.

Here is an example of how well the E-Trac can find coins near rusted iron.

I got this nice CO 40 at roughly 8" and dug out what I thought was a piece of rusted junk. I was a little surprised because it was such a good signal for what I pulled out, so I threw it on the ground and tested it again. The E-Trac still called it as a good coin. I put it in my pouch to look at closer when I got home. What I found was very surprising. Someone had used a token as a washer on this whatever it was. I cleaned it up a bit and decided to leave it as it is.

This is what came out of the ground.

A closer look and I saw this.

After a little cleaning I was able to identify it.

 

[Des Dunne]

Hey Dan,

Here at the factory we're hearing all the angles: better separation, even with a large coil on: depth increase, and a very common similarity is stability.
For example: one customer told me when using E Trac at a site he had pounded it was like starting to detect a virgin site..signals, that is NEW signals were coming every five feet or so.
Hope this helps.

Des D
Minelab

 

[go-rebels]

Yes quite often actually. I have dug coins only to find a rusted nail in the same hole, and rusted nails, only to find a coin in the same hole.

"In the same hole" is a different matter entirely. All the top detectors will give up the coin with a nail in the same hole, but put a nail 3" above the coin and try again. You won't find it.

 

[Southwind]

"In the same hole" is a different matter entirely. All the top detectors will give up the coin with a nail in the same hole, but put a nail 3" above the coin and try again. You won't find it.

Well I will admit I don't bother to dissect the hole to see where the target was in-relation to the junk, heck, most of the time I don't know there is junk with the coin until I've recovered them both. What I can say is IF I recover a nail first, then chances are it was above the coin. Of course this is just speculation on my part

 

[go-rebels]

Try the test in your yard. If you have a shallow (2"-4") buried coin drop a very small nail on top of the ground and try to find the coin. You won't see it. Put both together on the surface and you'll likely see the coin. Even my backup Ace 250 will give a postive signal on co-mingled targets.

When a detector can truely see through iron to what is beneath, that will be a breakthrough day for metal detecting.

------

Fisher F75 LTD
Explorer II
Ace 250

 

[Ray-Mo.]

You are exactly right about a fair sized nail masking a desirable target directly under it.An yes all top end machines will detect a coin in same hole with nails depending on the size of said hole of course.However it has been my experience that the E-Trac will ID and separate the coin from the "nails" at closer proximity to each other in their natural buried state than the other top end machines I have tested side by side in the field.You may ask what other machines so here is the list from my personal trials and tests of many hours; Fisher cz3d,Coinstrike and F75.Whites Vision/V3.Minelab Explorer II,SE Pro and a older Sovereign XS-2 W/DigiSearch digital ID meter. I tested 2 or more coil sizes on each machine as well with the exception of the Vision and its stock coil.Obviously I did not try every possible combination of setting on every machine but did try many that were proclaimed as the best by some of the more successful forum members along with my own that gave me my best results in the field.All my results were in older well hunted sites such as parks, schools,churches,fairgrounds and the like while primarily looking for older coinage missed by the droves that came before me,Ray.
PS Others may get different results depending on their soils,locality and type of detecting they are involved in.

 

[go-rebels]

I wonder if there are differences in coil design that we generally attribute (both good and bad) to the detector to which it is commonly attached?? For example, the Minelab "Pro" coil may have an inherently tighter patter compared to the V3 coil. You'd never know unless you could switch branded coils, which we cannot do.

The nail at proximity is a good question, but answering it requires exhaustive testing. I can say with certainty that, in my test bed, with my soil, I have a silver dime buried at 4" and 4" away from a small nail buried at 1"... and neither my F75, F75 LTD, Sovereign, Explorer II or Etrac (had it for 2 months) could see the dime using normal sweep speeds. Yes, if you knew where the coin was at, you could get a poor signal by fussing with the coil over the coin, but you'd never do that in real life. Only when switching to a smaller coil on each machine would the dime appear.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

Very good point as I think a coil can make or break some machines.Even same model and brand of coils are not all created equal as now and then one will stand out as being better than average and another may be a bit below average in performance.

 

[Jackalope]

go-rebels:

I'm wondering how you had your E-TRAC set up? Did you have the nail (IRON) discriminated OUT or were you using All Metal? Did you have the Trash Density set to High or Low? Could make a difference. HH

Ron

 

[Jackalope]

Just did a short test with a clad quarter at 4" and a large rusty nail (4" long) above the quarter. Nail was discriminated out, Trash Density was on HIGH.

Got a few chirps to begin with but as I rotated around the compass I noticed that when the nail was parallel with the center-line hot spot on the coil, I would get a usable signal. Continuing to rotate, as the coil hotspot became perpendicular to the nail, the signal was lost. Maybe you could try this and report your findings.

Ron

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I have done numerous test similar to what you describe and can get a good signal with a rusty nail on top of a coin as long as the nail is nearly in line with the detecter shaft but turn a quarter turn and the nail will cause the machine to null out as long as the nail is being disced out.If we ever get a machine that will disc a bad target out and still get the good target an inch or more directly beneath it we will be able to unmask a lot more good targets and will have a huge advance in the field of detecting,Ray.

 

[Jackalope]

Moved the coin up to an inch below the nail and that improved the signal. Then moved it down to 6" below the nail and still got the signal. I'm pretty sure the signal is coming from the coin because the depth gauge was following it, up and down. I'd dig these signals.

Set TRASH to High to get good Smartfind readings. CO numbers stayed consistently 43 to 46 when the signal was received. FE from 13 to 24.

Using FE 2 tone, both tones were in there along with the reasonable numbers. This would be a definite dig for me.

Wonder how many E-TRAC users 90 deg. double check those nulled signals. Move slow...U betcha!!!

Ron

 

[Ray-Mo.]

Sounds like you may be on to a good thing if it can be duplicated in the soil,Ray.

 

[go-rebels]

go-rebels:

I'm wondering how you had your E-TRAC set up? Did you have the nail (IRON) discriminated OUT or were you using All Metal? Did you have the Trash Density set to High or Low? Could make a difference. HH

Ron

Yes, I was running in the factory set "coin" program, but I also repeated the test using a wide open screen. I never performed the test in AM mode. Trash Density was set to 'default', whatever that was; sorry I don't remember.

I could never find the coin using normal, relatively slow sweep speeds.

 

[go-rebels]

I wonder how many of those that have tested the coin below the nail that got postive but inconsistent signals that they might dig, really are getting false chirps from the ends of the nail. My only frustration with the Etrac was the falsing on exactly those type of nails, falsing that I rarely got with my Explorer II. I spent a month tweeking the settings trying to eliminate the falsing on nails but was never successful. And this is falsing that I never experienced with the Sov, EX-II or Fisher F75. All the other machines properly disc'd out the nails, in my type of soil.

 

[Jackalope]

In CO, Multi, Trash HIGH, QuickMask up to #26, I received solid usable high silver tones with CO 43 to 46 and FE bouncing between 13 and 24 at two opposite sides of the compass. Moved the coin from 4" to 1" to 6", depth gauge tracked it up and down. It was signaling the coin. Trash HIGH allowed for the SmartFind screen to display the strongest ACCEPTED signals numbers. I believe the Trash Density setting on the preset coins is LOW.

If you're going to run the screen wide open (All Metal), you might try FE 2 tones. I did and heard both tones clearly.

I really expected the coin signal to be masked totally by the big nail on top of it but at two points around the compass I got dig signals. Trying to be objective. HH

Ron

 

[Southwind]

As long as detectors use eddy currents it will be technically impossible to detect a coin below iron unless they are touching. The principal just doesn't work that way. Now that being said, if a piece of iron over time leaches down to the coin, it could be possible.

 

[Jason in Enid]

i beleave its both as well. ive found coins under nails at depth of around 11 inches. sometimes there has been more than one iron object over the coin. i even found a wheat in a rusted tin match box at about 7 inches. how it sounded off that a penny was there is beyond me. i thout it was a false signal when i dug up the rusted box but i tapped it on my shovel and it broke open and the wheat fell out of it into my hand.
now that made a beleaver out of me. i posted pics and wrote about it so look it up.
the etrac is magic

Have others ever found a coin under a nail? I have this scenario in my test bed (nail @ 1", silver dime at 4") and I've never found a machine that could detect that dime. My exploerer II with Pro coil could never see the coin no matter what the setting and I trield like hell knowing it was there. Nor my Sovereign, Whites XLT, F75 or F75LTD.

yep, I have found several good targets directly under nails or rusted wire. Also on top of, and next to iron. I found a silver dime that had rust corroded onto it. The E-Trac is awesome.

 

[Jason in Enid]

As long as detectors use eddy currents it will be technically impossible to detect a coin below iron unless they are touching. The principal just doesn't work that way. Now that being said, if a piece of iron over time leaches down to the coin, it could be possible.

You are completely wrong. I have found too many good targets with rusty items any number of inches above them. Your statement is true for other detectors, but the E-Trac seems to trully be able to see the coin as long as it isn't underneath manhole cover.