I need some help with the CTX, how far does gold deviate from the 12 line normally? I haven’t had the CTX very long, but I am not new to detecting at all. I have used many fisher units F5, F70, F75, as well as, the AT PRO. All of these detectors I have found gold with at our local lakes beaches. I have took the CTX out and no gold which isn’t a surprise, I am digging a lot of trash, which I expect. I am starting to notice that the pull tabs and flaps aren’t staying rock solid on the 12 line. My question that I have is when I am out searching about how should I expect gold to act? I understand mass, and shape play a big part in this. I am wondering in everyone’s experience does gold tend to stay tight and close to the 12 line? Or does it bounce around much like aluminum? Thanks for everyone’s help
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Questions about gold and the 12 line
- Thread starter Ayeti65
- Start date
Jason in Enid
Active member
It depends on ALL the circumstances. What is the size, what is the composition, what is the ground (beach) condition, etc. In air-test, all normal gold items such as coins and rings will be on very close to the 12 line. Once you bury them, all bets are off. Best suggestion for beach hunting is to block out the bottom FE lines and dig everything else that beeps.
Bushmeister
New member
With the CTX ground noise cancel impacts your TID's. If you noise cancel and move into a more or less mineralized soil that can move your numbers.
HH
HH
Jason in Enid
Active member
bushmeister said:
Umm, there is no such thing as "ground noise cancel". It has a "noise cancel" which selects the frequency channel with the least EMI interference, but it has nothing to do with ground.
IDXMonster
Well-known member
Just to give you an idea of how screwy things CAN be...tonight I was turf hunting an old church in the country,no EMI. There’s NO WAY I’d ever dig a 13-09 when in a park or such, but out there I dig everything that’s not iron. You know what I dug up? A regular Jefferson nickel at 5”. All those factors mentioned below,plus some you prolly ain’t never heard of, can change things. For the MOST part,the CTX is incredibly accurate with how ID is SUPPOSED to be. There wasn’t anything around or in the hole,it was as alone as a target can be,so far as I could tell. For a coin that hardly ever is anything BUT a 12-12/12-13,that’s pretty screwy.
I use this example because the coin is very uniform in shape and composition,and it’s in the “gold range”. Now imagine all of the various compositions of gold alloys out there,all of the weird shapes rings and jewelry can be...it can get sketchy.
At the beach you can find about anything known to man or beast,or so I hear.
I use this example because the coin is very uniform in shape and composition,and it’s in the “gold range”. Now imagine all of the various compositions of gold alloys out there,all of the weird shapes rings and jewelry can be...it can get sketchy.
At the beach you can find about anything known to man or beast,or so I hear.
Yes IDXMonster, you are correct you can find anything on the beach. I guess the slap in the face for me this last trip was coming to the awareness that I was passing potential gold signals. With the other detectors that I have used in the past, you could ID a certain point of discrimination that would disc out small bits of aluminum and pull tab flaps, 22 cal shell casing, etc.. and detect anything above those signals. The CTX is a totally different creature it seems, I am reading Clive's books that he has available on the CTX, as well as, Andy's book. I have a goal of mid to the end of summer to be proficient at the CTX and what it is telling me. typically I am out at least once or twice a week in the spring hunting these beaches before it gets so hot you cant stand yourself to be outside. I had hoped with the purchase of this machine it would allow for more gold recovered, and perhaps it will with time, at this point I cant say I am terribly excited about the possibility of having to dig so much little aluminum junk to stay in the gold range the machine has. Our beaches are covered with years of trash, it is not uncommon at all to recover 150-200 pull tabs/ beaver pulls in a 3-4 hour trip out. Its what I consider a war of attrition with the pull tabs/ beaver pulls, you dig enough of them on our beaches and you will find gold. Its just a mater of percentages, you put in the time and dig enough trash it will pay off.
Jason in Enid
Active member
Ayeti65 said:
It doesn't matter what detector you are using, if you block out anything in the conductive scale you WILL MISS GOLD. It's no different with the CTX. BTW, you can still block out foil, tabs and 22 casings, but those cover a huge amount of the gold spectrum, and since they fall in the bottom half, that is where most jewelry will be.
PryorCreekJoe
Member
Ayeti65,Ayeti65 said:
Keep reading Clive's books, You will discover lots of little nuggets even in the books not specifically for the 3030. If you are just hunting dry or wet sand you will have to keep digging the pulltabs or risk not digging a small ladies diamond ring worth $$$$. If in the surf, the pulltab will be near the surface if not moving about because of the density and weight. Gold is about 9 times heavier and sinks. That is a key that Clive keep trying to drive into his reader minds. GOLD SINKS. So it will be the deepest targets unless it is a fresh drop. And to add to IDXmonster point about nickels and a seemingly unrealistic number, I dug a silver war nickel a couple of months ago that came in at 12-42, 12-43 in ground and out! I have dug them from 12-11 up to the 12-43. All of the unseen forces cause these anomalies. Another point I made to a buddy of mine a few months ago was when he called me and told me about his day on the beach and they he had dug 42 nickels and he was done with them and would never dig another one. I cautioned him about not digging nickel numbers or tones. The next day he said that he had just dug an 18K mens wedding band that he swore was another nickel. I just saying...if it is not a totally FE tone/number, it could potentially be gold that you just left for the next guy.
PCJ
PryorCreekJoe
Member
Jason in Enid said:
Well said Jason!
IDXMonster said:Just to give you an idea of how screwy things CAN be...tonight I was turf hunting an old church in the country,no EMI. There’s NO WAY I’d ever dig a 13-09 when in a park or such, but out there I dig everything that’s not iron. You know what I dug up? A regular Jefferson nickel at 5”. All those factors mentioned below,plus some you prolly ain’t never heard of, can change things. For the MOST part,the CTX is incredibly accurate with how ID is SUPPOSED to be. There wasn’t anything around or in the hole,it was as alone as a target can be,so far as I could tell. For a coin that hardly ever is anything BUT a 12-12/12-13,that’s pretty screwy.
I use this example because the coin is very uniform in shape and composition,and it’s in the “gold range”. Now imagine all of the various compositions of gold alloys out there,all of the weird shapes rings and jewelry can be...it can get sketchy.
At the beach you can find about anything known to man or beast,or so I hear.
I can give you 3 examples of not hearing or seeing the other target that's masking the coin .
1 rust flakes
2 paper backed foil have to be a inch away to hear , the paper rot's leaving the thin foil which oxzidizes much quicker than pull-tabs thank God this crumbles when you dig there by not seeing it .
3 hot rocks you don't see them or hear them unless your pinpointer is touching them just a little one over a nickel will do all kinds of thing's but not so much for silver freq thing I guess ctx .
These will all screw with your ID and there's more that we don't even know about .. sube
sgoss66
Well-known member
Ayeti65 said:
Just to reiterate what Jason said...
You CAN find a certain point of discrimination that will disc out small bits of foil/aluminum/pull tab flaps/.22 casings with the CTX. EXACTLY the same as you can your other machines. BUT -- as Jason and Joe said, if you do that, you will be missing some smaller gold, including some of the women's "thin" gold rings -- the kind with HUGE diamonds on them, sometimes. BUT -- you were missing these same rings on your other machines, too, if you were discriminating out up to .22 cal shell casings. That is simply where some gold will ID at. Gold will ID anywhere from just above iron (gold chains, very small earrings, etc.) all the way up to at least the zinc penny range (some large class rings, etc.) And EVERYWHERE in between. You can discriminate if you like -- especially if there are specific, pesky types of trash that prevail in your location. BUT -- you just have to know that you are likely discriminating out some gold in that same range. Sometimes, it's worth it to do that -- so not arguing with you. My only point is you CAN do what you want to do on the CTX, exactly how you could on your other machines. But doing so (on the CTX OR on your other machines) will run the risk that you will miss a gold item...
Steve
sgoss66
Well-known member
sube said:Clive's right about gold it SINKS try telling that over and over to some gold panner's out west it's going to be the deepest thing in the creek unless something stops it .sube
sube -- INDEED. If those guys aren't getting down to bedrock, or at least some type of barrier (clay, etc.), they will be missing most of the sizeable pieces of gold. I'm surprised there's anyone out West looking for gold that doesn't know that...
Steve
Thanks everyone for your input. The fact that I am wiling to or consider discriminating out bit of trash, is a calculated risk on my part to reduce the insane amounts of trash that resides on my beaches. They have seen 60-70 years of partying, campfires, etc... the trash at times is abesolutely off the charts. So to even detect at all I have chosen to disc out some of the small bits of junk, I always dig pull tabs they are just part of what I do out there. I am willing to drop the edge of the gold range and loose chains and earrings, most the detectors I have owned in the past wouldn’t even sound off on a small chain anyways if it was touching the coil. I am going to continue along learning the CTX and look for clues that help me, perhaps target trace or other indicators, that will help me to identify with a degree of certainty junk vs quality targets. That may not be possible and I understand that. I may have not made the best possible choice in detectors for my situation. I have wanted the CTX for years, finally the opportunity came and I jumped on it, the features it has are outstanding. I have noticed things about it that I really really like. This may not be one of those things for me, and my situation. I am not giving up, way to early in the game for me with this detector.
Another things to consider is our beaches aren’t deep with sand, we have clay bottom in most places. Sometimes you will find gold or coins right on the surface as you walk/detect. Other places you can get to the wind blown sand which can be quiet deep. Again I accept the calculated risk of loosing some gold to drop out some trash, I will continue to dig it al and learn from this.
Another things to consider is our beaches aren’t deep with sand, we have clay bottom in most places. Sometimes you will find gold or coins right on the surface as you walk/detect. Other places you can get to the wind blown sand which can be quiet deep. Again I accept the calculated risk of loosing some gold to drop out some trash, I will continue to dig it al and learn from this.
sgoss66
Well-known member
Ayeti65 --
On the contrary, I think the CTX is a VERY good machine for what you want to do. I think you made a VERY good choice. The CTX is an EXCELLENT machine, and it's among the best detectors for salt-water beaches, in the opinion of many.
YES, it makes sense to disc. out some spcific types of trash, if your beach is really trashy (while realizing the "calculated risk" that you will miss some gold).
Here's another option, though. Have you tried, or thought about, using the combined mode? With this mode, you can set all of your iron items to be a low "grunt" tone (or disc. it out entirely). Then, you can set up five "bins" of conductive numbers -- all at different tones.
SO, as an example, you could set your iron bin at, say, 20 FE. That way, the bottom half or so of your screen (where iron reads) will all be one tone. You can set it to the lowest tone the machine makes (is it 75 kHz maybe?)
THEN, you can set up five conductive bins, in the top half of the screen. Set the first bin for, say, 01 to 05 at a low tone (but not as low as iron) -- for small foil and aluminum, and small gold. Then, bin 2, you can set at say 06 to 14, at a low-mid tone, for medium-sized gold, nickels, and some aluminum, beaver tails, etc. Then, bin 3 from 15 to say 25, with a medium tone, which is where most of your square and rectangular tabs will fall, plus a good bit of gold. Then bin 4 from say 26 to 32, with a medium-high tone for larger gold items, such as class rings, men's gold bands, etc., plus a few types of tabs, and then finally 33 and up, for bin 5, set at a high tone, and this would include American coins, crushed aluminum cans, aluminum screw caps, etc.
THIS WAY, you are not discriminating ANYTHING (unless you choose to discriminate iron -- i.e. the lower half of the screen). Instead, you'd hear ALL non-ferrous items, each falling into one of 5 tone bins, and you could then simply decide which of those bins you want to ignore. If you want to ingore that 01 to 05 bin, fine. You would "discriminate," but with your ears instead of the machine's disc. Same with any other bin -- like if you didn't want to dig coins, ignore the highest-tone bin...
Just another thought as to how to set it up; this is simply another of the many ways you can run the extremely versatile CTX...
You made an EXCELLENT choice in machine; it simply may not have the shortest learning curve...give it time, and it will do GREAT things for you.
Steve
On the contrary, I think the CTX is a VERY good machine for what you want to do. I think you made a VERY good choice. The CTX is an EXCELLENT machine, and it's among the best detectors for salt-water beaches, in the opinion of many.
YES, it makes sense to disc. out some spcific types of trash, if your beach is really trashy (while realizing the "calculated risk" that you will miss some gold).
Here's another option, though. Have you tried, or thought about, using the combined mode? With this mode, you can set all of your iron items to be a low "grunt" tone (or disc. it out entirely). Then, you can set up five "bins" of conductive numbers -- all at different tones.
SO, as an example, you could set your iron bin at, say, 20 FE. That way, the bottom half or so of your screen (where iron reads) will all be one tone. You can set it to the lowest tone the machine makes (is it 75 kHz maybe?)
THEN, you can set up five conductive bins, in the top half of the screen. Set the first bin for, say, 01 to 05 at a low tone (but not as low as iron) -- for small foil and aluminum, and small gold. Then, bin 2, you can set at say 06 to 14, at a low-mid tone, for medium-sized gold, nickels, and some aluminum, beaver tails, etc. Then, bin 3 from 15 to say 25, with a medium tone, which is where most of your square and rectangular tabs will fall, plus a good bit of gold. Then bin 4 from say 26 to 32, with a medium-high tone for larger gold items, such as class rings, men's gold bands, etc., plus a few types of tabs, and then finally 33 and up, for bin 5, set at a high tone, and this would include American coins, crushed aluminum cans, aluminum screw caps, etc.
THIS WAY, you are not discriminating ANYTHING (unless you choose to discriminate iron -- i.e. the lower half of the screen). Instead, you'd hear ALL non-ferrous items, each falling into one of 5 tone bins, and you could then simply decide which of those bins you want to ignore. If you want to ingore that 01 to 05 bin, fine. You would "discriminate," but with your ears instead of the machine's disc. Same with any other bin -- like if you didn't want to dig coins, ignore the highest-tone bin...
Just another thought as to how to set it up; this is simply another of the many ways you can run the extremely versatile CTX...
You made an EXCELLENT choice in machine; it simply may not have the shortest learning curve...give it time, and it will do GREAT things for you.
Steve
sgoss66 said:
Steve, that is exactly what I am thinking about. I run combined tones now and it works well for me. My next trip out I am going to dig everything and watch the target ID and target trace really close and see if the CTX tells me anything about the corrosion on the aluminum is showing up there, perhaps that will give me a clue. From what I can tell so far in Clive's book he explains is that the CTX is trying to tell you how different something detected is from the ground. So along that thought I should be able to see some signs of the corrosion and gain some edge over the garbage that way. Which goes back to my original question is generally how far does gold deviate from the 12 line. Being a non corrosive metal I would assume under decent ground conditions and with no other targets near that would mask the signal, it should fall fairly close to it and hold somewhat true with multiple scans. Of course that depends on about 1500 different factors for that to be true. Only time will tell.
The CTX is an awesome machine. It will give you a lot of info to what targets are but it takes some time behind the machine to learn it. The tones alone will tell you a lot about the target with it's subtle nuances. The target trace is a great visual tool to help you learn how the detector sees what is in the ground. I don't look at the numbers much anymore, I just listen to the tones and watch the target trace and watch where and how it builds. Especially in trashy areas, the ID numbers can bounce around a little but the TT is solid and accurate.
My advice is to don't jump into heavy trash until you have a good understanding of the tones and TT. Put some miles on the CTX in parks, yards and fields so you can learn it without getting overwhelmed by a lot of trash. I am pleasantly surprised how quick I started learning the CTX. It is like a second nature to me and is easy to understand with a little time.
My advice is to don't jump into heavy trash until you have a good understanding of the tones and TT. Put some miles on the CTX in parks, yards and fields so you can learn it without getting overwhelmed by a lot of trash. I am pleasantly surprised how quick I started learning the CTX. It is like a second nature to me and is easy to understand with a little time.
Jason in Enid
Active member
halfstep said:
Solid, excellent advice!
Well I do have a couple other sites that I could hit that aren't at the beach. They would be less covered in trash. I have been back out to the beach twice since I started this thread, I still haven't found any gold yet, but I feel like I haven't left any in the ground either. I started by going back over an area that I originally searched, thinking I had possibly left something good in the ground. As it seems I didn't, I found a few pull tab flaps, and some melted aluminum, a couple coins that I had missed and that was it. Actually I was pretty pleased, seems I had covered the area quiet well and didn't leave any good targets really. The second trip out was to an off the beaten path beach that is really on accessible by boat or about a mile walk. I didn't do very good there, it seems it hasn't been used as much lately as it has in the past. Never the less, I will continue and learn, hopefully I can post sometime soon about my first, of many gold finds with my CTX.
Thanks,
Mike
Thanks,
Mike