Recovery speed eye opener....

[jbow]

I have waited too long to cut my grass and my battery was dead. So while it charges I decided to come in and check Youtube for some Explorer videos. The first one I watched was this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfBT-LxVoIg

The second half of the video is a recovery speed test and I think everyone needs to watch it. It makes me think that in most of the places I hunt I need to spend about an hour walking ten feet...

Julien

 

[Phil]

I'd like to see him repeat the test using ferrous tones and an open screen(no discrimination). That is how I run my Explorer so I don't miss something because of masking like the video shows. Anytime you lose the threshold tone in disc mode you can't be sure what is under the coil. With an open screen you should hear both the coin and the nail.

 

[jbow]

Thanks. That is sort of the way I run my F-75 in high trash. I run it in in all-metal and one tone and watch the screen. Then I dig everything that jumps up into the 20s on the TID. That method opens up hunted out places.

I am going to start using my SE in AM and start using the Smartfind screen, I need a change. I have always used the SE either with some "iron mask" or in "coins" and conductive tones. I have remained confused no matter how much I use it. Most of the places I hunt are infested with square nails and other old trash. I have a friend who masks out whatever trash is in abundance at a site but I think I am going to try the AM setting like you said. I have thought that I was getting too much info from the SE but maybe I wasn't getting enough, maybe the masking along with the falsing has been the problem... maybe if I actually hear and see everything I can understand it!

I guess I should switch to ferrous tones if I hunt in AM??

I wish Minelab would tweak the software for even faster recovery (if they can). That, imo, is the only technical advantage the F75 has over the Explorer... the recovery speed. Plus it is lighter and more ergonomic.

Thanks for the help.

Julien

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

Jbow,

Something doesn't look right there. I'll have to try that experiment in factory settings. I also run open screen, and started doing it largely because I felt there was a faster response speed when the machine didn't have to null; however a nail two feet away, and he didn't seem to be getting the coin when he detected from the coin to the nail, something seems fishy.

I have the F-75 also and have done some comparisons vs the explorer. With the DD coils on either detector I can set a rusty nail on top of a silver dime and get it with either detector as long as the nail is pointed in the same direction as the center "hot zone" of the coil. At 90 degrees apart only an iron signal. I tried placing the nail next to the coin, a couple inches apart, then farther. Did not see much difference between the two despite the faster speed of the F-75. The biggest difference is that the F-75 would give a number other than what the coin should be, say something in the pulltab range, The explorer did not hit upper right in the dime position but did hit upper middle with some high pitched coin sound. This is a classic coin with iron hit and I would dig it in the field, with the F-75 only have a single number display it could be about anything. Both detectors ID does bounce around but the explorers bounce gives you much more information.

Contrary to what people say about the fisher: that long fast sweeps over the target will give the best ID, I've found that doing a short wiggle right over the target gave much better results, just like with the explorer.

Try comparing the two and see if you get the same results.

Chris

 

[Shambler]

Hey guys... I'm so happy to see these posts at the top of the forums. Here's why:

I haven't been out of MDing since I was a teen using my Dad's 3900D. Now 20 something years later, a co-worker mentions he spends some time with his son doing it, so I thought I'd give it a shot. I got a killer deal on an F4 and went for that and an Ace250 for my son. I've had some fun times, but I feel like I'm missing something especially considering the permission I've gotten from a few sites that should produce some nice coins, and haven't. Yes I'm popping clad out of parks with no problem.. but that's not enough !! So... I've been saving for an F75 (eventhough, I have my other eye on an F70 instead). A couple of days ago I stopped at a dealer that had a bunch hanging in a shop (no fisher though except ID). He got me handling the Quattro and SE. I couldn't believe the build quality and options! It was like I was testing a new Corvette vs. a Camry. So.. I went home and did some research and not only on the Regton video but several others I've seen that you have to have an insanely slow sweep speed. One video even made joke out of it. I'm pointed back at the F75, and I can even save a few hundred bucks going that way.

My question for the two of you (or anyone!) is which machine is giving you the most pleasure hunting with? We know they are both deep machines and they find metal stuff, but which is your favorite to go out with?

 

[Phil]

I've watched many of the videos by Norfolk Wolf and he always swings the detectors at the same speed. An Explorer is made to be swung slowly and that makes a world of difference in the distance it takes the detector to recover too. If I swung my Explorer as fast as that he did, I would rarely find a coin at the home sites I hunt. I've never seen a successful Explorer user swing a coil as fast as it appears he does in the video at least not in iron laden soil. You could try it yourself and see the difference the sweep speed of the coil has on target masking.

 

[jbow]

Contrary to what people say about the fisher: that long fast sweeps over the target will give the best ID, I've found that doing a short wiggle right over the target gave much better results, just like with the explorer.

I've found the same. Somehow the F75 has been easier for me to understand. I've been trying to learn the SE for quite a while and i'll keep at it. I know it just hasn't clicked with me yet. I have both a Minelab 8" coil and a 5" Excelerator, I like the ML coil better. I just ordered one of the new "Pro" coils. I'm going out somehwere this evening to work on it a bit...

J

 

[jbow]

The SE and the F75 are both top notch machines. The SE is better built and give's you more information. I can almost always tell a pulltab from a nickel with the SE using the digital screen. It is unrivalled for TID. I may be a bit biased because I have yet to learn the SE, it has a longer learning curve, IMO. So, right now the F75 is more fun for me.. BUT... beware the F75 will drive you nuts at first because it is very noisy. Some machines like a Tesoro or a Sovereign are quiet until you come across a target... the F75 is a constant blast of chatter from minerals and small bits of iron or whatever. The tones on the F75 are brash and harsh compared to the "fluty" tones of the Explorer. The F75 is the most ergonomic detector I have ever used. The F75 probably has an edge in high mineral and lots of iron. I think the Explorer probably has an edge everywhere else. Both work well on the beach in the dry sand but the Explorer works better in the wet sand and the F75 gets jumpy and goes nuts if you stick the coil into salt water.

Another option for you to consider is a used T2, which is very similar to the F75, the main thing the F75 has over the T2 is that the TID will work in All-metal on the F75, not on the T2. The F75 has a little more depth, or so they say. The T2 has a wider range of numbers in the lower "iron" area and the F75 has a wider range in the higher numbers. You could also look for a used F75 and save a bit of money. Then buy a used Explorer too. The only difference that I can see between the new SE Pro and the SE is the new coil and a decal.

FWIW, I really like both my Tesoro Cortes, (for coin shooting) it read's almost all coins at "95" on the meter, and my Tesoro Tejon with a 5.5" coil for relic hunting. I use a 5.5" coil on both of the Tesoros, you really lose very little depth and gain much seperation. In fact I don't know anyone who uses a large coil on a Tesoro. A lot of relic hunters around here use the Tejon.

So, I would buy a used F75 and send it to Fisher for the "waterproof" upgrade, ask them to calibrate it while they have it. Buy a used SE, be patient, save money... get both!

I would not sell my SE of my F75.. or for that matter my T2, or my Cortes or my Tejon... I might sell my SovereignGT.. They all have their use at different places and for hunting different things.

If I had to venture a guess I would guess that the SE might, under some conditions, find something that all the others miss but you are going to have to spend some, (a lot actually), of time with it.

The batteries, (4 "AA"), last about 40 hours in the F75 but the SE comes with a rechargable battery and a "AA" battery pak.

Hope this helps... you're probably more confused than ever now... laff.

More info on the F75 here:
http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/list.php?2
http://www.fisherf75.com/

Explorer here:
http://www.treasuregizmo.com/settings.htm
http://usetheminelabexplorerlikeapro.blogspot.com/2004_11_11_archive.html
http://groups.msn.com/MinelabExplorerXSusers/_whatsnew.msnw
http://66.51.97.78/coinist/mtipspage1.html
http://forums.detectorbase.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18
http://64.150.165.38/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Tesoro here:
http://64.150.165.38/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

And the best here of course:

http://www.findmall.com/


Julien

 

[Neil]

n/t

 

[jeff & Maria]

n/t

 

[jbow]

Panama City Beach, FL. Actually, I should correct myself, now that I think about it, it was the T2 that I was using there, not the F75 but I imagine it would be the same. I was wading, in about 1' of water. It would begin to "wow" over and over but was fine up on the beach. I had my SovereignGT with me and it worked really well in the water. The T2 was just as good in on the beach and lighter. Sorry for the misinformation...

J

 

[jbow]

I got out in the yard a few minutes ago, (it started raining after i got the grass cut). I tried both the Slimline 10.5 and the 8" FBS. I have an area of the lawn strewn with coins and some relics. I got a zinc penny, a Rosie, and a nail. I put them about 4" apart with the nail in the middle. I set the SE in AM and Ferrous and Smartfind. I could not hear the dime or the penny BUT I did notice that the tone was not all iron and the crosshair was not buried in the upper left corner... I learned a lot from that. The 8" was better than the 10.5 but both worked.

I am really happy!! I learned quite a lot from that, thanks to you. I just have not been thinking right with the SE. It is totally different from other detectors.

I will be out tomorrow morning to some older sites.

I'll let you know how I do. I knew I would get it at some point if I kept with it.

J

 

[Phil]

I had a T2 until recently and the target ID worked fine in all metal. Matter of fact when I got a site that wasn't loaded with trash I used the all metal mode on my T2 to hunt. It ran quieter than the disc mode with the sensitivity cranked up and would ID coins slightly deeper. Have you noticed what happens when you crank the disc control above 50 on the T2? It goes into a hyper mode of some kind and ups the gain a bunch. If I'm running a sensitivity of 70 and turn the disc above 50 I have to then reduce the sensitivity to 40 or less to get it stable. The depth is great in this setting but I don't like running so much discrimination. It's a great detector but I traded mine because Technetics never made the accessory coils they promised when the T2 came out. If I could have purchased a 6 or 8in DD I would still have my T2.

 

[jbow]

You're kidding right??

First I used it for over a month with the coil connector a little bit loose. I still found stuff but it just chattered like crazy. I finally called them and the first thing the guy said was, "wiggle the connector"... DOH! I tightened it and it became much more stable. Still it wasn't quite right and finally I sent it back. They set it up, replaced the grip and the screen cover and sent it back It works smoothly now BUR I NEVER REALIZED THAT THE TID WAS SUPPOSSED TO WORK IN AM UNTIL NOW... sorry, I didn't mean to yell. I'll send it back again.... *sigh.

I have not bought the smaller coil for my F75, but you know.. I will get one, I almost ordered one this week when I ordered the "pro" coil for the SE.

I like detectors almost as much as I like detecting. I am also a guitar player, (Strat and Marshall). We call it G.A.S. in the guitar community... "Gear Aquisition Syndrome".


Thanks for the info, I feel like a moron for using the T2 for so long and not knowing this. I got mine in a "group buy" direct from 1st.TX for the GNRS a couple of years back..., (and that is another story.... i'll never go to another GNRS).

J

 

[Phil]

it would be easier to tell you what detectors I haven't tried than what I have. I finally settled on some that worked well for me: Explorer II, MXT, T2, X-Terra 50 and Compadre. I've used an Explorer(had 2) and MXT the longest(7yrs) and had the others a couple years. Recently I got a White's TDI and this week traded my T2 for a Fisher F70. The Explorer is my first choice for hunting old coins.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

Even on my old XS, you can get a target separation of a single inch if you move slowly. The trash in the site will dictate your swing speed. If it is clean, then you can move as quick as in the video (if you want deep stuff, then it would pay to go slower) but if a site is fairly trashy, then I've been known to slow down to a 10 second sweep in each direction. Listening to it's nulls as well as it's tones will give you the idea.
Mick Evans.

 

[bgscofield6]

I am using an XS and swing at about the speed that he does. I don't do turtle crawls on here like everybody else seems to do. I hunt a lot of sites with deep square nails and other bits of iron and have never had a null last as long as that for a nail. It's a quick null and then the next signal.

I think the problem with his test is because he is detecting within an inch of his targets, it is making the nail larger than it really is. Put both of those targets 8" deep and the nail will not null out that long at all and the coin will sound off. I dig a lot of coins with nails still in the hole and more often than not they are great coin hits that I know aren't nails.

I see how this could be an issue though for field hunters in heavy iron sites. Of course when I am in those kinds of sites I am in AM with ferrous tones and slow down to a crawl. You can't swing that quickly in the heavy iron.

 

[jbow]

I am using an XS and swing at about the speed that he does. I don't do turtle crawls on here like everybody else seems to do. I hunt a lot of sites with deep square nails and other bits of iron and have never had a null last as long as that for a nail. It's a quick null and then the next signal.

I think the problem with his test is because he is detecting within an inch of his targets, it is making the nail larger than it really is. Put both of those targets 8" deep and the nail will not null out that long at all and the coin will sound off. I dig a lot of coins with nails still in the hole and more often than not they are great coin hits that I know aren't nails.

I see how this could be an issue though for field hunters in heavy iron sites. Of course when I am in those kinds of sites I am in AM with ferrous tones and slow down to a crawl. You can't swing that quickly in the heavy iron.

Thanks for that.

I went out yesterday evening and checked mine using a dug nail, a zinc penny, and a Rosie dime. I put them about 4" apart with the nail in the middle. Running AM and ferrous, "fast" setting. With the nail in the mix I got no signal from the dime or the penny, no matter how slow I swung the coil. However I did notice that the with the iron tone the crosshairs were not buried in the upper left corner... so I learned something good. Now, if i took the nail out of the mix the SE would signal on both the dime and the penny with correct tone and ID...

I am just going to start running in AM and ferrous all the time because the would county here is infested with iron. During and before the war for southern independence there were mines and furnaces all over the hills here.

J

 

[Neil]

Thanks Jbow,

Im in NJ and my F75 works ok here in the wet sand and salt water but not as good as either my sov or explorer. the minelabs are just super smooth and deep and the F75 I have to fiddle around with it a bit more but they did a good job on making it work at the beach. That GT of yours should get down nice and deep on the beach.

Neil

 

[JHM]

Running the sensitivity too high will cause it to null longer than usual. Mine resets a lot quicker than that.