Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Recovery speed eye opener....

First off, try that test in all metal (iron mask wide open) and you'll find that the recovery speed nearly doubles when you don't discriminate the iron. Second when you're in dense trash, it is always a good idea to swing from left to right and then AGAIN swing from right to left (the opposite direction) across the same area you just swung across BEFORE taking a step forward and swinging the next patch. In the video he only swings across the nail first, had he swung across the coin first, that would change his results, same as if he was in all metal. So in trash, you want to swing slowly from both directions, with fast on, deep off, in all metal, with a coil JUST big enough to pick up your average deepie, and then do it again with smaller coils from different angles. I rarely ever hunt in anything but all metal and fast on, deep off......... even in less trash, because you never know when you will run across a target next to a nail and that can happen anywhere, not just in areas that are dense with trash. In most cases those are the targets left over in areas where other guys have so called pounded out. In every swing that you hear iron, swing across it from the opposite direction before you move on.:spin:
 
Chris, check my post above "here's some help with that" I think you'll agree. Especially how he always swung over the nail first instead of the coin. And in the beginning of the video, who in the heck has a test garden with 2 inch deep coins?????????????????? He should of had them at 8 and 10, I think this video was for a negative ML PR purpose. Or he just has no clue.
 
Rich I think the point he was trying to make was how long the explorer takes to respond to another good target after going over one that is disced out. so swinging over the coin first would be like not having the nail there at all wouldnt it? No doubt the explorer is slow on recovery if youve got any disc set on it and that includes minimal iron mask. just try the difference between the screen in smartfind with a clear screen and then again with just nails checked in. quite a difference. but when you are aware of that you hunt with it accordingly and that means not hunting with it like its an F75.

Neil
 
In addition, not sure if you saw his other video on the Garrett 2500, but he seems to give this machine some high praise. I bought a 2500 before i bought the Explorer XS back in '99 and the 2500 is crap compared to the XS. I too think his test is flawed and he's either a corporate shill or doesn't really know what he's talking about.
 
Look at his video on the XP Goldmaxx and the F75. Sine all things are the same, he has a point. You have to go in slow motion for the SE to do well on that test. If you check out a couple of the UK forums you'll see a lot of people graduate to the Goldmaxx just for these reasons.
 
I think if that was the point he was trying to make then he would of voiced that in his video but he did not. Now if he would have said "look what happens when I use allot of discrimination.....So ladies and gents....use less" I would see your point. So either he is not aware of that or purposely left that little tidbit out. So he's either a con or has no clue. In either case, the information is worthless without explanation. Maybe we will get lucky and his next video will be him driving a car with anti-lock brakes pumping the pedal instead of holding it down steadily and then crashing into a cement truck:heh:. Of course, since he will not tell you the point that with anti-lock brakes, one should not pump the anti-lock brakes for that very reason (they won't work properly), the video will just look like some spaz purposely smashed into a cement truck because of whatever model car he was driving.....Not that HE was driving it INCORRECTLY.:poke:
 
I think thats where he has mislead us on the video by showing us a clear screen and then doing the test where in reality it appears his test was done while in the factory preset disc pattern. I tried this yesterday at the beach, not with a nail but with a similiar sized piece of iron and sure enough at the speed he swings the distance is about right. I couldnt duplicate his coin, I used a dime.
he also has a video with the sov elite with about the same results.

HH
Neil
 
I got out twice since posting this link. I have switched to AM/ferrous/deep off/smartscreen and it is WAY better. I have always run in either "coins" or iron mast a few clicks from the left. I don't know what I was thinking. This is much better. I am going to try with both fast and deep off. It says the ID will be better this way. The ground is hard as nails here and CW era stuff is usually only a few inches deep. I have found minnies laying on top of the ground more at several places. At least I am going to compare the difference in ID with "deep" on and off.

Have you checked the difference in ID with "deep" on and off?

J
 
digitrich said:
I think if that was the point he was trying to make then he would of voiced that in his video but he did not. Now if he would have said "look what happens when I use allot of discrimination.....So ladies and gents....use less" I would see your point. So either he is not aware of that or purposely left that little tidbit out. So he's either a con or has no clue. In either case, the information is worthless without explanation. Maybe we will get lucky and his next video will be him driving a car with anti-lock brakes pumping the pedal instead of holding it down steadily and then crashing into a cement truck. Of course, since he will not tell you the point that with anti-lock brakes, one should not pump the anti-lock brakes for that very reason (they won't work properly), the video will just look like some spaz purposely smashed into a cement truck because of whatever model car he was driving.....Not that HE was driving it INCORRECTLY.

There's no conspiracy - he sells Minelab machines and he says its one of the best for depth and has had a lot of success.

You're saying that in his 18-20 videos, where he turns on each machine and runs the same test in the same setting, there's nothing to learn. If you turn on the Goldmaxx and start swinging you can hear the coin within an inch. The F75 within 3 inches. The SE within 1.5 feet. It does say something, you have to swing slow in those conditions, but with those other detectors your don't. Is it possible you just didn't like the results?

On your other point, if a Toyota doing 50 MPH can stop in 100 feet and a Hyundai stops in 75 feet, but a Lexus stops in 1500 feet, then obviously when it comes to stopping distance the Lexus loses. That's not considering anything else about the car - just stopping distance.
 
I never saw much of an ID increase turning off fast and turning on deep inland. I did use deep on the beach and saw a slight increase in ID Depth, but since I hunt by tones, smart find screen accuracy is really second to me. Especially in trash as it lags too far behind the tones to be useful. The greatest benefit I get from deep on and fast off is that it makes the deep signals longer in duration and therefore easier to recognize between the surface stuff. I have found areas where there is allot of modern shallow and older stuff deeper and then lowering the gain to 5 or 6 and deep on really identifies the deepies easier, but that is a specific circumstance and not the norm. Most sites have older and modern coinage "stratifying" at approx the same depth as each other unless fill dirt or rotted leaves being added every year (like in the woods) is involved. Some say fast off will clean up your tones a bit, which is true, but it's like all metal in the fact that you get used to the shorter "squashed" tones of fast on and easily recognize the good tones amongst the bad even if they are of less quality than the tones of fast off. It's just a matter of getting used to it. Most of the sites where you have competitors using less deep machines and a lack of Explorers in the neighborhood, deep will produce some sweet finds that they probably thought were iron:thumbup: If you find coins at 8 or 10 inches that are of age, deep is definitely the way to go, if those same older coins are 7 inches or less, fast is the way to go. If you swing and hear 3 or 4 signals per swing go with fast and/or put on a smaller coil. From your post above, that all the CW stuff is pretty shallow, I would go fast on deep off, and probably go down to a SR 8 coil, AM auto sens, and with the new PRO coil I would go to manual sens as high as possible. You are right on track. Except for the deep on part. DIG everything above rusted iron nails especially your mid tones, bridal rosettes, shield nickels, and 1 dollar gold pieces, and especially the dreaded shotgun shell will all hit in the same areas. Remember that iron close by will drag those tones around a bit and just listen for a quality tone amongst the scratchy crap tones and you'll pull out stuff that will knock your socks off. But unless those tones repeat in four directions, don't dig, move on. If the tone doesn't repeat in all four directions but the tone in a couple of those directions is just so crisp and flutey, then go ahead and dig, you will probably find both iron and a decent target in that hole or a good target that is just nearly out of range (Deep); at the maximum capable depth of the detector on that day with your current lack of moisture content etc.:detecting:
 
Shambler said:
digitrich said:
I think if that was the point he was trying to make then he would of voiced that in his video but he did not. Now if he would have said "look what happens when I use allot of discrimination.....So ladies and gents....use less" I would see your point. So either he is not aware of that or purposely left that little tidbit out. So he's either a con or has no clue. In either case, the information is worthless without explanation. Maybe we will get lucky and his next video will be him driving a car with anti-lock brakes pumping the pedal instead of holding it down steadily and then crashing into a cement truck. Of course, since he will not tell you the point that with anti-lock brakes, one should not pump the anti-lock brakes for that very reason (they won't work properly), the video will just look like some spaz purposely smashed into a cement truck because of whatever model car he was driving.....Not that HE was driving it INCORRECTLY.

There's no conspiracy - he sells Mine lab machines and he says its one of the best for depth and has had a lot of success.

You're saying that in his 18-20 videos, where he turns on each machine and runs the same test in the same setting, there's nothing to learn. If you turn on the Goldmaxx and start swinging you can hear the coin within an inch. The F75 within 3 inches. The SE within 1.5 feet. It does say something, you have to swing slow in those conditions, but with those other detectors your don't. Is it possible you just didn't like the results?

On your other point, if a Toyota doing 50 MPH can stop in 100 feet and a Hyundai stops in 75 feet, but a Lexus stops in 1500 feet, then obviously when it comes to stopping distance the Lexus loses. That's not considering anything else about the car - just stopping distance.


First off, if some one is still hunting in factory presets 3 months after they buy an Explorer, then they are sloooooooooooow to learn and need to buy a simpler machine. If they are a dealer of Mine Labs and this is their sales demonstration, they might want to consider a non commission job. As a dealer of ML's, he knows that air tests; which this is, are worthless, he knows the Explorer is for proper ID at depth, not for shallow separation, and he knows that factory presets have to much discrimination to be used in that experiment, other than to show that factory presets are a poor choice to use, so WHAT is the point of this video by a man who sells the product he is showing in a diminished light?? If I were Mine Lab, I would consider getting a different dealer in that area. You see; every day, I dig up coins up to ten inches deep, some deeper, in holes with 3 and 4 flat nails on top, next to, heck even sticking through the coin itself with my SE's, and yes I could not do that if I set the machine up improperly and didn't know how to use it. If you improperly ground balance a F75 you couldn't pick up your car with it. And I have a F-75 and a DFX in hopes that their faster recovery than my Explorer's would be an advantage and they aren't.......... period. Speed sucks if it doesn't ID correctly because it lacks the depth, maybe for clad that might help but I am not finding to many capped busts on the surface lately. And yes a Lexus will take 1500 feet to stop................................................................If you remove the break pads first:puke:. I was a little harsh saying that this guy had no clue, maybe he released the video prior to it being finished, who knows. As for the brand loyalty thing, I would metal detect with your unwashed:poke:r if I thought it would give me better results. And I will continue to buy and learn the next "better than the Explorer machine" and hopefully one day I'll get lucky, but it's not happening with no F75......that's for sure. Funny, I tried this same test with a Discovery 2200 I got at Radio Shack for 50 bucks new, It beat the Explorer in that same test too, does that mean I should sell my 1250 dollar SE and get 25 different Discovery 2200's? The Discovery can't ID past 2 1/2 inches deep and for some reason, 9 out of every 10 targets it calls silver, end up being iron nails. Where do people find these good drugs; mine just don't seem to have the same effectiveness anymore.:rofl:
 
What's happening here is that the nail is pointing at the target and then when the coil is being swung along nail lengthways, the resulting magnetic field produced in the nail is masking anything in its wake. Turn the nail 90 degrees and see what happens ;) This is why it is always productive to search good site from different directions.
 
Just my 2 cents

Over time the better detectors tend to rise to the top of the user list. I have never owned the F75 but I have owned both the DFX and SE and both have advantages over the other depending on conditions and use. Thats why both are still rated at the top.

Even after 4 years with my detector there are times I use the factory presets, and recovery speed is important. Under most conditions a faster recovery speed will give an advantage.

Air tests do have value. All things being equal(ground conditions) air tests can give you a comparison in depth possibilities.
 
I watched this guy before doing the DFX demo. I've had the DFX since it came out. This guy is a joke. (no offense). His demonstrations of the DFX and now Minelab are ridiculous. Neither machine is that bad. What a bad video for both White's and Minelab. He should have shown factory settings and then showed it after an experienced user tweaked it. That would be a fair demo. Not this!!! If I saw that video and didn't know better, I'd sell my DFX and stop saving for that new Minelab Explorer SE Pro (and 4.5 x 7 coil too). I have been patiently reading this forum and saving for that machine. I don't need some boob showing the world this. Good grief! What's wrong with this world. It seems the dumber you are on the Internet, the more people listen. Thank God for forums like this, or we would all be living in the stone ages. Hey, ask me how I really feel:rofl: Just venting. HH
 
I'm actually in the market for an F75 or Explorer SE... even posted earlier in this thread to get some ideas on which is best. I've also done that in other forums and handled both detectors. The slow sweep speed concerns me and Norfolk's video was a miniscule portion of the data collected.

I've never seen someone defend a device purchased for a hobby with so much vigor. Most give answers that not all detectors are good in all conditions.. blah, blah blah, but I LOVE my <insert detector model here> and HERE is why. This is the first time I've seen someone so offended that they've needed to be offensive. I actually found a few other threads where a slow sweep speed is discussed. There's even a youtube video that an SE owner created where he makes a joke out of it. I'm not sure insulting regton or norfolk/john was the answer a shopper such as myself was looking for... the overly defensive stance creates more questions. In addition, why would ANY dealer (and several have) push me toward an F75 when the MSRP mark-up is half of the Explorer?

I'm still wondering why 25+ freqs is better when 1 will detect the same things.... If you need extra freqs to get a better ID, then you're probably hunting in a "trashier" area which puts you back to needing faster recovery. Do most of you leave things in the ground based on the Explorer telling you it's a pull tab or foil?
 
I have done quite a lot of coin hunting over the last 25+ years with good success.I got a F75 when they were first released and loved it.Light weight, great ballance,Fast recovery and very deep in the parks and lawn type ereas I hunt at.I used it for about 18 months and did well.However I kept reading the Explorer forums and looking at the pictures of finds and finally could not stand it any longer.I had to try an explorer for myself.I had been a happy Fisher user for several years at this point.1265-X, 1266-x,1270,CZ3D,Coinstrike,Goldbug II and 2 F75s.

Anyway I bought a nice used Explorer II off this forum and put it to the test.What an eye opener and coin pouch filler !! I only hunt for older coins and relics and it was much better at finding them than even the F75s.Yes it was heavy and not very well balanced but what a producer.And as others have posted many of the good older coins were very close to or touching rusted nails.Many of the better finds were on edge at 7-10" in depth.All these good finds were coming from the same sights I had pounded many times with the F75.

Now the F75s are gathering dust and I bought a Explorer SE and new Pro coil 5 weeks ago and it works even better for me and now the weight is better and the balance is much improved.I guess the bottom line for me is the results or finds I make with a detector regardless of test videos or what someone else says or thinks about it.And as long as the Explorer keeps producing many good finds from so called hunted out sites it is the one I will use . I am very fortunate to live in an erea without any local Explorer users that I know of.And yes I am sure the mentioned test video is very misleading to those who do not know any better.

One of the main reasons I waited as long as I did to try an Explorer for myself was the fact that I like to hunt and swing fast and cover as much ground as I can in a day.And most reports on the Explorers said you must move at a snails pace.And I found that you do have to go slower than with the F75 but ( not a crawl ) to find good deep coins.I just use the smart screen with a very open iron mask setting and when it sounds right and is on the deep side I dig and it works for me and I am the only one that matters as coinhunting is not a team sport for me.
Just my opinion and actual field results,Ray.

Debate on the best detector is not very helpfull but trying one in the field is !
 
to a novice the video did make the Explorer look 2nd rate at best - maybe 3rd rate. We all know this is not the case. Whoever mentioned that the test was not realistic of conditions in the field because the targets were on the surface is also correct. So the bottom line of this test is that the Explorer is slower in recovery when detecting medievel coins that have been cut in half when close to a nail and when they are lying on the surface. So what? There are many, many more important criteria when selecting a detector.
 
Thanks Ray-Mo that was helpful.

Anyone who sees the 1200 price tag know's there's NO WAY it's second (or third) rate.
 
n/t
 
Top