See through.....nonsense

[bfodnes]

Hi Albert.

The two machines are so very different.

The Minelabs are ignorant to foil flakes and rust and all other " nano " particles of nonferrous or ferrous in the detectingfield and thereby gives the user a calm search for coins in the engineered window. You suffer small items of any kind to get your deep silver.

The XPs however find foil so small your pinpointer have to give up and works in a different way.

A carpet of tiny foil will give you a machinegun response but due to its disc and sound system it will make you aware of foil near iron.

So very different.

One finding coins by reducing sensitivity to undesired targets but therby including desired targets in that range too.

The other giving the user ability to decide to dig after consulting his ears and after optimicing the electronics for ear discrimination.

 

[therover]

The Deus, with the 4 single frequency options and determining what frequency would work best for a specific target set of coins ( ie, clad, silver, copper), and the ability to lower the sensitivity and up the discrimination, the Deus can be turned into a coin hunter to sniff out coins not only in iron, but also in foil and tab littered areas.

Then, switching to 18kHz, it would have the capability to bang on smaller, lower conductive targets, ie gold jewelry hunting.

NICE !

 

[Caretaker me]

iron finds are good, then I rescan the hole if there is more , it a bonus

 

[bfodnes]

You will find that in 18 khz and in a park you will find absolutely all the foil and all the tabs lol.

But all the gold too...

And when you have found all of it you will find the deper silver under it maybe using the 8 khz freq.

 

[ananda]

keep cleaning guys the more poluted the land you clean the more you keep at it lol a couple of my special fields i run almost in all metal but with anough iron volume for tiddly fiddly bits of iron the rest i;v slowly cleared untill next plough but each time i go back , after rain and few months later when well settled i always find a little special thing im looking for, been doing these two spots for good 6 years now and the littles turn up along with a few iron bits n bobs but all the foil shotgun big bits n bobs n bigger coins etc are down to an almost zero

 

[TheMarshall]

n/t

 

[TheMarshall]

Interesting bfodness. Makes me wonder about the different approaches, electronically speaking, between say the Deus and an E-Trac. The latter being no where near as fast but able to operate quite well with high discrimination and the Deus being oh so fast but apparently requiring very little discrimination to potentiate it's unmasking abilities.

**********************************

Now here are two thinking men, sensibly discussing factors that underlie the significance of why I criticised use of the term 'See through', in metal detecting.

Earthmaster and Bfodness are identifying two top line detectors with different design approaches to the problem of close proximity of iron to a non-ferrous target.

The DEUS uses 'differentiation' in the true sense of electronic design, for this is a 'frequency domain. detector, to time-wise separate two overlying pulses.

....(The title 'Reactivity' was suggested by Nigel of Regton UK, in preference to 'Recovery', as suggested by John Lynn (deceased).

Again, a misnomer in my opinion....but as the we all recognise.....to the unwary....."it must be some new innovation worth paying extra for"



The E-Trac basically, is a 'Time domain' unit, and using three channels in the process to analyse targets. Later, in its audio manipulation, it to uses 'differentiation' ....(Recovery...fast or slow) to allow a time-wise separation / differentiation of ferrous and non ferrous channel outputs.

The aforementioned descriptions are brief, and lacking in absolute correctness, in an endeavour to keep the post 'non-techie'....

Now gentlemen.....please read....criticise to your hearts content...if that's all you have to contribute.....but park your guns behind the bar, and don't start a riot.....TheMarshall.

 

[ananda]

hi
the thing is that the xp,s are already seeing and accepting the iron and not trying to see through or fight against it, they see past and around it,im not sure how many people think there is an abundence of coins to be found under plough shards but anyway ,now if you want with the deus you can use disc to realy knock most iron out and hear it wich is great in the lower khz ranges but thus affecting higher khz with the delay on signal recognition and signal sound, i dig deep iron all the time just cuz it might be a dreamy maybe! the sound is almost yeh it could be but in my head n ears im still saying DEEP iron and hup there it is again deep iron lol i think most do the same just out of interest and the fact maybe it could be amazing but its not that dreamy thing you were hoping but often can be a nice key knife tool horseshoes etc but when you do get the chance to walk over something deep and nice and is very often big random copper bronze lead things the signal is there and completely sweeter than big iron so the sounds you realy can trust in them but again one will still dig deep iron just cuz we dream it could be the one, its basicly one of the coolist functions on the top machines from xp is the ironvolume and threshold it tells you its iron and yet i still dig it lol
happy hunting

 

[SwampeR]

Marshall, outstanding!

 

[ananda]

Interesting bfodness. Makes me wonder about the different approaches, electronically speaking, between say the Deus and an E-Trac. The latter being no where near as fast but able to operate quite well with high discrimination and the Deus being oh so fast but apparently requiring very little discrimination to potentiate it's unmasking abilities.

**********************************

Now here are two thinking men, sensibly discussing factors that underlie the significance of why I criticised use of the term 'See through', in metal detecting.

Earthmaster and Bfodness are identifying two top line detectors with different design approaches to the problem of close proximity of iron to a non-ferrous target.

The DEUS uses 'differentiation' in the true sense of electronic design, for this is a 'frequency domain. detector, to time-wise separate two overlying pulses.

....(The title 'Reactivity' was suggested by Nigel of Regton UK, in preference to 'Recovery', as suggested by John Lynn (deceased).

Again, a misnomer in my opinion....but as the we all recognise.....to the unwary....."it must be some new innovation worth paying extra for"



The E-Trac basically, is a 'Time domain' unit, and using three channels in the process to analyse targets. Later, in its audio manipulation, it to uses 'differentiation' ....(Recovery...fast or slow) to allow a time-wise separation / differentiation of ferrous and non ferrous channel outputs.

The aforementioned descriptions are brief, and lacking in absolute correctness, in an endeavour to keep the post 'non-techie'....

Now gentlemen.....please read....criticise to your hearts content...if that's all you have to contribute.....but park your guns behind the bar, and don't start a riot.....TheMarshall.

where do you actualy get your eu info from?
sorry shout at me if you want but penutimatly the etrac stil picks one for the target
stay complicated n have fun guys

 

[TheMarshall]

where do you actually get your eu info from?
sorry shout at me if you want but penultimately the etrac still picks one for the target
stay complicated n have fun guys [/quote]

**************************
Hi there Ananda....

Can you please clarify your question........where do you get your eu info from ?.....I don't understand eu


shout at you.......why would I want to do that ?????.......".luvs yu matey"......(not sure about kilohertz....if you've got 4 legs..maybe)

p.s.....I'm on holiday at the moment, so struggling a bit with firewalls and connections......Matt

 

[TheMarshall]

The same way you can "cut through the fog" or have you "standing on the fence" It's just a descriptive term meant to simplify the understanding of the ability to detect good targets among trash. I'm sure most people don't believe a detector can actually literally see through iron as if it were glass.

************************************

I clearly read the point you are making, 'S'

but it doesn't justify anything UNLESS you specify to what subject matter you are relating the synonymous phrase to.


i.e. "visible light doesn't 'cut through fog', especially if it's a 'pea-soup-er'.

"low frequency sound can 'cut through fog'

Radar can 'cut through fog'

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the case of using, " Detector xyz can 'see through iron' ", well that IS a blatant misuse of synonymous terminology in metal detector terminology.

The fact that your good self and ten thousand others understand the misuses, I'm sure there are other 'newbies' to detecting, who don't.

It was towards that audience my opinion was generally directed.

++++++++++++++

Recap of detector facts:-

A detector's receiving coil only senses the 'instantaneous' SUM of ALL the materials within its search-field as it sweeps over the ground.

If the SPATIAL SEPARATION ( relative to the direction/path of sweep) is insufficient between any two or more targets, it CAN NOT 'register' as a variation in the signal amplitude, (Dictated mainly by the search-head's size); then no amount of electronic differentiating or 'filtering' will usefully resolve the independence of adjacent targets....and certainly not of overlying targets.....

The coil needs to sense some degree of signal amplitude change indicative of the LATERAL 'space' between individual targets, for there to be any hope of electronically differentiating their individual character.

Two targets 'on top of one another only produce a 'summation' of their values, whatever their electrical 'mix' is.....non-ferr or ferrous....doesn't matter...the coil's reaction does the 'maths'.

(This latter point is relevant to the Ray-Mo effect, where two target's are co-located VERTICALLY, rather than horizontally)

The detector's X and Y channels translates their individually 'synchronously delayed samples) of the search-head's 'summed' signal into meaningful numbers and resultant phase difference.

For anyone to whom such post as this, gives a headache....please hang in there, for 'when the light come on', tranquillity will descend.

p.s. Have a thought for the author, for as a student/engineer, I too suffered in the long journey of understanding.......Matt

p.p.s.......learning is never ending......and ANY post, regardless of its point of view or observations, is a source of mental stimulation if submitted with the best intentions of stimulating debate.

As for detecting....each fresh find can be a new experience......and I am only as good as the availability of targets allows me to be, but a good detector, properly understood, helps.

TheMarshall.

 

[E-TREC-Virginia]

Marshall, I really enjoy reading your posts. As a matter of fact, I usually read them several times to make sure I understand the point(s) you're conveying. Thanks for your insights and knowledge.

 

[TheMarshall]

I have a stutter and it's easier to say see through than ssssssppppatial sepsepseperation ddddifdiferenentiation! No harm no foul. lighten up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sandy.....King George V of England ALSO had a stutter....

..............but he never-the-less,' was a fine king', in my opinion.

..............So let's 'take-heart' regardless of our individual shortcomings, and lighten up together......Matt.

 

[Cajuncoinhunter]

You really need to lighten up Kurttam and not take our written words so literally. We are metal detectorists not students in English literature. Posts like this is what got you banned in a couple of other forums.

You are so right Larry. We are simple metal detectorists having fun with a HOBBY. We're not "literary rally" students with hopes of some day writing the next NY Times Best Seller ?? No one should analyze weekend type "opinions" as though they were supporting some type of proven scientific hypothesis. Well said Larry !!! CCH.

 

[D&P-OR]

Amen, Amen & Amen!!!----Well said both Larry & CCH and (for tha Marshall), I ain't got no headache (right now) neither! ------Uh, excuse my French---I mean English!-------OK, "carry on" now Marshall!---------Del quote=Cajuncoinhunter]

You really need to lighten up Kurttam and not take our written words so literally. We are metal detectorists not students in English literature. Posts like this is what got you banned in a couple of other forums.

You are so right Larry. We are simple metal detectorists having fun with a HOBBY. We're not "literary rally" students with hopes of some day writing the next NY Times Best Seller ?? No one should analyze weekend type "opinions" as though they were supporting some type of proven scientific hypothesis. Well said Larry !!! CCH.[/quote]