Running the 705 with the 5x10 DD 18.75 coil, and digging all targets from 8,10,12,14,16,18,20,24 and other than an occasional nickel they are all pull tabs, is there any way to determine that its a pull tab with out digging, the ups and downs are killing my back and knees. Just wished that they would come in at just a few numbers instead of several different ones.
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
So tired of pull tabs Any clues
- Thread starter Digger 45
- Start date
If you run in 99 tones are there any tonal differences that could help you? Haven't tried myself, just asking. Pull tabs are a pain for many reasons and you may not be able to get away from them without rejecting gold also. I do look at my screen but go for the tones more.
If you find a way let us know.
If you find a way let us know.
mapper65
Member
In my soil, with a HF coil, a solid 12 that may occasionally jump to a 14 is a sure sign of a nickel. Just about everything else is not a nickel but you could miss a ring or some other nice artifact if you aren't digging other ID's.
I've gotten V nickels with the 6" Coiltek coil that ID as a 38-40 in the ground and 12-14 on top of the ground. Your soil may not produce the same results but I thought I'd share my experience.
I've gotten V nickels with the 6" Coiltek coil that ID as a 38-40 in the ground and 12-14 on top of the ground. Your soil may not produce the same results but I thought I'd share my experience.
You might be interested in this thread started by bob.oz.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,2043677,2044767#msg-2044767
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?26,2043677,2044767#msg-2044767
I'm sorry. I started to edit my previous post almost immediately, but had out of town company show up.
I wanted to add another thread link to check out on gold TIDs.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,2090437
The point being that it's tough to not miss good stuff.
Randy also wrote a two part article on notch discrimination that's definitely worth the read.
Notch Discrimination on the X-TERRA - Ever wonder what you're missing? Part 1
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/notch-discrimination-on-the-x-terra-ever-wonder-what-you-re-missing-part-1
Notch Discrimination on the X-TERRA - Ever wonder what you're missing? Part 2
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/notch-discrimination-on-the-x-terra-ever-wonder-what-you-re-missing-part-2
And I wanted to convey my experience with pulltabs . As far as pulltabs go.....I dig my share. It's hard to just tell someone what numbers to avoid, because not unlike gold they can come in almost anywhere. It depends on depth orientation, GB, as well as design, condition, and ground condition (moisture, conductive/magnetic minerals, etc...). Around here the old ring-pull tops are typically 28-30 and often jumpy, but they can read higher if the tail is bent or rotated to cover the finger hole. The newer rectangular ones tend to be 18-20, but if broken or folded will read higher or lower. Broken off tails often are in the 8-12 range, but will also vary depending on size and depth.
I usually listen carefully, to hear certain repeatable qualities that are consistent with my intended targets as well as those that are inconsistent enough to convince me that it might not be worth the effort.
I wanted to add another thread link to check out on gold TIDs.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,2090437
The point being that it's tough to not miss good stuff.
Randy also wrote a two part article on notch discrimination that's definitely worth the read.
Notch Discrimination on the X-TERRA - Ever wonder what you're missing? Part 1
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/notch-discrimination-on-the-x-terra-ever-wonder-what-you-re-missing-part-1
Notch Discrimination on the X-TERRA - Ever wonder what you're missing? Part 2
http://www.minelab.com/usa/treasure-talk/notch-discrimination-on-the-x-terra-ever-wonder-what-you-re-missing-part-2
And I wanted to convey my experience with pulltabs . As far as pulltabs go.....I dig my share. It's hard to just tell someone what numbers to avoid, because not unlike gold they can come in almost anywhere. It depends on depth orientation, GB, as well as design, condition, and ground condition (moisture, conductive/magnetic minerals, etc...). Around here the old ring-pull tops are typically 28-30 and often jumpy, but they can read higher if the tail is bent or rotated to cover the finger hole. The newer rectangular ones tend to be 18-20, but if broken or folded will read higher or lower. Broken off tails often are in the 8-12 range, but will also vary depending on size and depth.
I usually listen carefully, to hear certain repeatable qualities that are consistent with my intended targets as well as those that are inconsistent enough to convince me that it might not be worth the effort.
bob.oz
Active member
Digging in the dirt is tough, I only do it four months out of the year. The other eight are in the soft sugar sand on the beach or in the water. On the beach I use the 705/HF DD Elliptical coil 99% of the time. Four tone, no tracking, no beach mode, rarely switch to PP, and no sand scoop.The 4 tone gives me plenty of info about a target and being a water hunter...... listening to tones are what you go on.
Their is an advantages to doing so much beach dry sand hunting and that is being in soft sand that can be pushed around with just your foot to uncover a target. I can sometimes, and always do try to ID the numerous number of trash targets before seeing them, and without having to get up and down like dirt digging it can be a learning experience to be used when dirt hunting.
By not using a scoop or PP I'm constantly swinging the coil over and following the target while uncovering it and spreading it out on the sand. I listen to the tone change while watching the TID number as I bring it to the surface. With so many of the same targets like tabs, caps, foil, twist offs etc., etc.,....and like OLH said dealing with the irregularities in their shapes and size, I try to get familure with each ones sound and TID. Erratic numbers that jump three digits or more and have a scratchy, dull, flat or weak tone are mostly trash. The short crisp,sharp tones with solid TID numbers or two number jumps are usually something other than trash...not gold but something that should be investigated.
I don't dig a lot of those low single digit TIDs when dirt hunting unless their a solid TID and constant sharp, clear tone. When I get the 10 > 30 TIDS I want a good solid tone/TID but,... even a little jumpy TID of two numbers makes it still worth digging.
It's hard to tell someone what to dig or not,....But using the same MD, headphones and coil all the time is a plus, you tend to develop a sense of confidence on what you feel is worth going to the ground to dig, especially when getting up and down can wear you out, shorten your hunt and limit your finds. GL
Their is an advantages to doing so much beach dry sand hunting and that is being in soft sand that can be pushed around with just your foot to uncover a target. I can sometimes, and always do try to ID the numerous number of trash targets before seeing them, and without having to get up and down like dirt digging it can be a learning experience to be used when dirt hunting.
By not using a scoop or PP I'm constantly swinging the coil over and following the target while uncovering it and spreading it out on the sand. I listen to the tone change while watching the TID number as I bring it to the surface. With so many of the same targets like tabs, caps, foil, twist offs etc., etc.,....and like OLH said dealing with the irregularities in their shapes and size, I try to get familure with each ones sound and TID. Erratic numbers that jump three digits or more and have a scratchy, dull, flat or weak tone are mostly trash. The short crisp,sharp tones with solid TID numbers or two number jumps are usually something other than trash...not gold but something that should be investigated.
I don't dig a lot of those low single digit TIDs when dirt hunting unless their a solid TID and constant sharp, clear tone. When I get the 10 > 30 TIDS I want a good solid tone/TID but,... even a little jumpy TID of two numbers makes it still worth digging.
It's hard to tell someone what to dig or not,....But using the same MD, headphones and coil all the time is a plus, you tend to develop a sense of confidence on what you feel is worth going to the ground to dig, especially when getting up and down can wear you out, shorten your hunt and limit your finds. GL
I have tried all of these things and with no avail in my area it seem like the target sounds are strong and good, with no jumping of numbers or sounds, i use the method of backing up when over the target but most of the time the sounds and numbers don't change as the tip of the coil comes off the target. I always use the 99 setting, thinking of going to the digger 6" coil to see if i can get a more defined sounds for the target. I have high mineralized soil running it the low to middle teens on the sensitivity.
If the targets you are seeking provide the same inductive and conductive information to the detector as certain pulltabs, they will provide the same TID number. Here is an excerpt from an article written by Bruce Candy of Minelab, explaining the science behind discrimination.
Metal detectors differentiate between different non-ferrous targets by measuring how well eddy currents flow in them. This is determined by a target’s “time constant. Two properties of a metal target determine its time constant. One property is called the target inductance. This inductance may be thought of as the effective “mass” of the eddy currents, and which is basically the size of the eddy current path. Thus, for a given eddy current flow, the bigger the effective target inductance, the bigger the “momentum” of the eddy currents. Another property is called target “conductivity,” which is a measure of how easy it is for eddy currents to flow. This is the opposite of electrical resistance. High conductivity (low resistance) means the eddy currents flow easily (low current “friction”). Low conductivity (high resistance) means high eddy current “friction.” The better the target conducts electricity, and the bigger the inductance, the longer the time constant. Most coin detectors may be set to select various ranges of non-ferrous time constants. For example, the old pull tabs of soft drink and beer metal cans have moderately short time constants in a fairly narrow range. This time constant range may be discriminated against, but targets with differing time constants will still be detected. This range may be selected by a “notch” discriminator control. However, other targets with time constants very similar to the pull-tab time constant range will also not be detected, so some care should be taken in setting the discriminator controls.
If you would like to read the entire article,Metal detector - Basics and Theory - by Bruce Candy, it can be found in the Knowledge base on Minelab's website. http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/11043/METAL%20DETECTOR%20BASICS%20AND%20THEORY.pdf
The best way I've been able to discern variances in the audio response of most pull tabs is to vary the sweep speed of the coil (after initially hearing the target response). If I flip the coil back and forth over the target very quickly, the audio response of pulltabs will sometimes break up. The problem is......you'll need to dig the first 500 of them, to prove it to yourself that you are actually hearing a difference in sound (compared to a coin). Then, after that first 500, you'll still dig them occasionally, just to reinforce your diagnosis! And don't expect all good targets to sound smooth and solid...Depending on the coil, depth and angle they are buried, coins on edge can also provide a broken audio. I've also dug quite a few rings that didn't lock on solid audio. Many of them have had broken bands. Much of what I listen for will depend on what I am hunting for, and the types of targets I might come across. As I get older and the body doesn't work as well as it did at one time, I prefer to hunt for old coins at old sites...just to not have to deal with modern trash. JMHO HH Randy
Metal detectors differentiate between different non-ferrous targets by measuring how well eddy currents flow in them. This is determined by a target’s “time constant. Two properties of a metal target determine its time constant. One property is called the target inductance. This inductance may be thought of as the effective “mass” of the eddy currents, and which is basically the size of the eddy current path. Thus, for a given eddy current flow, the bigger the effective target inductance, the bigger the “momentum” of the eddy currents. Another property is called target “conductivity,” which is a measure of how easy it is for eddy currents to flow. This is the opposite of electrical resistance. High conductivity (low resistance) means the eddy currents flow easily (low current “friction”). Low conductivity (high resistance) means high eddy current “friction.” The better the target conducts electricity, and the bigger the inductance, the longer the time constant. Most coin detectors may be set to select various ranges of non-ferrous time constants. For example, the old pull tabs of soft drink and beer metal cans have moderately short time constants in a fairly narrow range. This time constant range may be discriminated against, but targets with differing time constants will still be detected. This range may be selected by a “notch” discriminator control. However, other targets with time constants very similar to the pull-tab time constant range will also not be detected, so some care should be taken in setting the discriminator controls.
If you would like to read the entire article,Metal detector - Basics and Theory - by Bruce Candy, it can be found in the Knowledge base on Minelab's website. http://www.minelab.com/__files/f/11043/METAL%20DETECTOR%20BASICS%20AND%20THEORY.pdf
The best way I've been able to discern variances in the audio response of most pull tabs is to vary the sweep speed of the coil (after initially hearing the target response). If I flip the coil back and forth over the target very quickly, the audio response of pulltabs will sometimes break up. The problem is......you'll need to dig the first 500 of them, to prove it to yourself that you are actually hearing a difference in sound (compared to a coin). Then, after that first 500, you'll still dig them occasionally, just to reinforce your diagnosis! And don't expect all good targets to sound smooth and solid...Depending on the coil, depth and angle they are buried, coins on edge can also provide a broken audio. I've also dug quite a few rings that didn't lock on solid audio. Many of them have had broken bands. Much of what I listen for will depend on what I am hunting for, and the types of targets I might come across. As I get older and the body doesn't work as well as it did at one time, I prefer to hunt for old coins at old sites...just to not have to deal with modern trash. JMHO HH Randy
foreign object
New member
Randy said
As I get older and the body doesn't work as well as it did at one time
I prefer to hunt for old coins at old sites...just to not have to deal with modern trash.
Same here. I don't hunt any place that is without a fair amount of potential of holding older coins. If the site has potential but also holds a lot of modern trash I just ignore it and look for the older stuff suffering thru any clad that I have to dig. Hatedigging that stuff but it is part of metal detecting.
FO
As I get older and the body doesn't work as well as it did at one time
I prefer to hunt for old coins at old sites...just to not have to deal with modern trash.
Same here. I don't hunt any place that is without a fair amount of potential of holding older coins. If the site has potential but also holds a lot of modern trash I just ignore it and look for the older stuff suffering thru any clad that I have to dig. Hatedigging that stuff but it is part of metal detecting.
FO
The only thing i have noticed with most aluminium is the range will jump all over the place (24-30-20-28-32) etc.
And, the ring pulls. Those pesky ones, that sit on 8 and sound so sweet in the ground, The only thing that seems to help me is the back off the sensitivity and listen for change, I would still dig it anyway.
The ring pulls themselves may well contain a higher percentage of iron or magnesium in the alloy for additional strength etc And that's perhaps why they give a different and lower signal to other aluminum targets? I have heard of Titanium being used as well, But, realistically it takes 3 high temp phases in metallurgy to produce Ti metal. So not really worth it for a disposable container. Be easy enough to test for titanium by anodizing one.in phosphoric acid. Or a specific gravity test. I will test one tomorrow for you, and let you know. Magnesium alloy is lighter than aluminium and stronger so would cover a few consumer issues if nothing else
Easy open ecology end
US 3877604 A (aluminium, with reference to ironed aluminium)
Kindest regards
Phillip
And, the ring pulls. Those pesky ones, that sit on 8 and sound so sweet in the ground, The only thing that seems to help me is the back off the sensitivity and listen for change, I would still dig it anyway.
The ring pulls themselves may well contain a higher percentage of iron or magnesium in the alloy for additional strength etc And that's perhaps why they give a different and lower signal to other aluminum targets? I have heard of Titanium being used as well, But, realistically it takes 3 high temp phases in metallurgy to produce Ti metal. So not really worth it for a disposable container. Be easy enough to test for titanium by anodizing one.in phosphoric acid. Or a specific gravity test. I will test one tomorrow for you, and let you know. Magnesium alloy is lighter than aluminium and stronger so would cover a few consumer issues if nothing else
Easy open ecology end
US 3877604 A (aluminium, with reference to ironed aluminium)
Kindest regards
Phillip