So what's "under the hood" of a Minelab detector :blink:

[Andy Sabisch]

Over the years, a common thread or question raised on virtually any brand-specific forum has been "what's under the hood" of a particular detector. Users engage each other on debates as to how a particular search coil design works, how a particular detector circuit works or what the next step in detector evolution might be.

An engineer myself, I can

 

[Bell-Two]

I too have run into the astounding fact of something that sets a product far ahead of competitors not being patented. I managed bicycle shops for over 35 years and was astounded to find out that the process that Trek uses to make their OCLV carbon fiber bicycles is not patented and the reason given was virtually the same as what Andy related about Minelabs circuitry.

Today is the first chance I had to try out a noise cancel experiment, Canceling in air and with coil on ground, both gave me the exact same channel. I will try it again in a different setting to see if it changes.

 

[wpaxt]

Andy,

My compliments for succinctly stating something that we all need to remind ourselves of from time to time. For some reason, in our hobby, many become preoccupied with "how does it do it" as opposed to "what does it do & how well does it do it." Could you imagine if we applied this same standard to personal computers? Most people I know want their PC to be better, faster, etc., but when it comes down to how exactly it accomplishes these improvements they could care less. That's my view of a metal detector. I just want to find cool stuff. How it gets me there really doesn't interest me much.

Thanks again for the spot on post, Andy.

Bill in S. CA

 

[CT Todd]

I like my Etrac because it finds stuff that I like to find. More time spent actually swinging the coil and not on the forum equals more coins found.
Works with all brands.
Thanks Andy

 

[Prep1957]

I owned 2 Etracs before settling on Safari as my main detector.I sold both Etracs I have done very well indeed with the Safari but if I was asked what changes to my Minelab I would make to it was to cut it down to 2 programs one Co and Fe.Eliminate target ID and Depth.Sell for about $499.00 and my finds would not be any less than anyone using Etrac or Safari.I also believe the 705 in the proper hands with proper coil selection chosen for say silver will go deeper and be more flexible for any other metal like gold than any FBS machine out there.A question was asked on I believe the Safari Forum that I think is as good as the kid who asked how much of a dollar we should be able to keep of our money.So here is the Question when does 100 kHz frequency ever turn on with a FBS detector and why would it not be better for gold.I told him never, prove me wrong I like to learn new things.I agree with most of what you say Andy and I enjoy my Safari for what it is but lets face it Minelab has been bragging about there 28 FBS frequency detection system they brought it up and a lot of people spent big bucks and want to know if they are getting the most from their dollars worth.I respect Minelab decision not to release its technology with so much boot leg technology theft and reproduction going on but this gives me the same feeling as ( Lets pass this health care bill so we can see what's in it)Minelab makes a good detector but as far as there manual and answering customer questions FFFFF across the board.Just think Andy if we did not have you and your books or this forum to consult there would be an army of Minelab metal detecting Zombies holding there coil 1 to 2 feet in the air to like banishing the devil when they noise cancel,I know,I was one of them for about 4 months when I got my Safari.had to re-hunt everything what I did for that four months, this was wasted time, what a big difference in my finds.There is a new thread on this Etrac forum it is very familiar question from a new Etrac or Safari owner they ask if all 28 frequencies are used while hunting,there is no excuse for Minelab not to have that answer in the Manuel or answered by customer service, it will expose no company secrets.I enjoy your books and have great respect for you but what makes this Finds website so popular is no metal detector or there brand is exempt from good or bad comments and that includes minelab ,it is a meat and potato's website , this is what I found, here is the picture,and I found it this deep,then the detector broke on me,then I sent it here ,and big boy really took care of me.By the way I think Minelab is patent happy,they patent almost eveything they do. Look at the back page of any Minelab Manual I. think the words-Serious- and- Detecting- were around before Minelab existed but they went ahead and put patents on them.


Just my 2 cents and aggravation with Minelab communication skills.

 

[Myownwings]

Minelab should just make the detectors, send the prototypes to Andy, make any changes he would recommend and then have him write their manuals.

 

[etracjoe]

Then they can nickname it the SABEAST-TRAC lol!!

 

[OCDfinder]

Sooo, your saying it's not a tiny magical merlin under the hood controlling the beeper? I've been talking to myself?

I have a site i'm gonna go back to... BIG thanks. Just going to rationalize NC also protects the merlin in my etrac from the other tiny merlins in the vicinity who are evil...and elementals.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

You start out saying what many hunters regardless of the brand or model they use have forgotten . . . it is 90% the user and 10% the machine that dictates success at the end of the day.

A number of years ago a co-worker got the bug after seeing what I would come up with . . and I recommended a good middle-of-the road detector that I knew would meet his needs. We went to an old military post and after an hour he came up to me with fury in his eyes . . . he was frustrated and all he had to show for his efforts were one or two modern coins and a pile of trash. I had found several Wheats, some silver and a few artifacts from the post. He swore that I had sold him a piece of junk . . . and when I offered to swap detectors for a while he jumped at the chance certain he would be the one with the killer finds that day. Well, an hour or so later he tracked me down and again showed me a pile of trash and one lone Wheat . . . and when I showed him another pile of keepers, the light came on . . . mastering the detector was the key. He spent teh next few months becoming one so to speak with the detector he bought and made some super finds that others with detectors costing $100's more missed. Using what one is comfortable with and meets their needs may mean you use a detector costing $500 versus %1900 . . . manufacturers might not like to hear that but the top of the line model is in fact NOT right for everyone for many reasons in each each case.

As far as Minelab's discussion of their technology, I think many will agree that they have fallen far short of the mark in explaining their unique technology in terms that the average Joe can understand it . . . not asking for circuits of each detector along with the software files but a basic explanation that makes sense . . . has anyone looked at the GPX literature over the years? The feature that is always touted are "TIMINGS" . . . new "relic timings" or "enhanced timings" . . . . . care to put that in terms that make sense to the masses? Even the engineers have had a hard time explaining that to the prototype testers. How FBS is a question that has been asked since 2000 when the firs Explorer was released and much of the information has been seen as double-talk or simply techo-words that make little sense . . . . . but there is no denying the technology works in the field is there?

The BBS and FBS technology is also a closely held secret within Minelab and no, it has not been patented. Yes, Minelab has a gob of patents but the software that drives these detectors is not one of them. And the comment about all the Minelab patents as seen in the manuals . . . . those are copyright symbols and their literature is copyrighted as is the material from other companies.

As far as this forum, mu books and the sharing of information among Minelab users being what has made users so successful as compared to any help the manual or a lack of other tools from Minelab, you are probably 100% correct. Overt the years Minelab has lagged the rest of the industry in providing manuals that tell you how to use their products rather than simply how to assemble and turn it on, not producing videos for field use or conducting training at shows and seminars - all of which is done by the competition . Minelab does offer seminars on their high end gold machines whcih is likely based on the profit per machine each sale of these detectors produces for the company's bottom line. The problem is the factory does not have any employees that are ace's with the treasure models - FBS, BBS or V-Flex - who can show others how to tweak it regardless of the area they are hunting in. Hopefully with the transition to Outdoor Outfitters being the hobby end distributor for Minelab, the focus will return to dealer service and customer training rather than simply how many units does a dealer sell and training at any level remaining secondary.

The "Peanut Gallery"

Andy Sabisch

 

[lomoch]

I agree with Prep's post. For those that don't care, and simply want to turn the machine on, sweep and hope it finds stuff, that's great. But asking questions that may produce answer's that in turn would help get more performance towards a particular person's hunting technique and environment is a good thing in my opinion. As I've found over and over again in my occupation, knowledge is power, and analysis on how certain things were put together and thought process behind potentially helps gain extra performance/efficiency when utilizing such. Isn't this some of the underlying reasoning behind creation of Andy's books in the first place?

But, as stated, just my opinion(s).

 

[Jason in Enid]

As I've found over and over again in my occupation, knowledge is power, and analysis on how certain things were put together and thought process behind potentially helps gain extra performance/efficiency when utilizing such. Isn't this some of the underlying reasoning behind creation of Andy's books in the first place?

Yes, but Andy has given as much detail and "inside" information as you are ever going to get about these machines. Anything more is considered a trade secret.

If you want to learn how to get the most from your detector, use it.

 

[Goldmanjace]

As I've found over and over again in my occupation, knowledge is power, and analysis on how certain things were put together and thought process behind potentially helps gain extra performance/efficiency when utilizing such. Isn't this some of the underlying reasoning behind creation of Andy's books in the first place?

Yes, but Andy has given as much detail and "inside" information as you are ever going to get about these machines. Anything more is considered a trade secret.

If you want to learn how to get the most from your detector, use it.

Or go to work for minelab