Sovereign Amplifiers

[otlew]

So, if I understand this correctly there exists two different amplifier schemes.

1. Boost coil TX (transmit) strength
2. Boost Audio to Headphones from RX (receive) strength

Number 1. In theory, produces a greater detection field strength, so the field goes deeper.

Number 2. Does not go deeper, but allows you to hear deeper signals by amplifying the RX (receiving coil) output.

So I ask, is there any reason, if this actually works, why Minelab hasn't already incorporated this into the design.

In both cases, it seems it should be possible to prove said amplification by burying a small target, in a given soil condition, until it cannot be heard. Then turn on the amp and be able to hear the target signal.

Comments?

 

[goodmore]

I am just guessing here so please don't take it for fact.
I have Shaun's amp which is number 1 on your list.

Minelab or any detecting company builds a detector that can be used by many different people from many parts of the world for many different kinds of hunting. They put a product out that they feel can do all of the above with minimal experience at minimal cost to them. While the amp does increase the signal for deeper detecting it also magnifies tiny bits of metal and makes pinpointing harder to do. So is this worth paying extra for? For some yes and others no. Either way I will tell you that the amp is for people that know their Sovereign.

 

[otlew]

Now we have a pro and a con. Thanks, I would never have thought of the pin pointing problem amplification might cause. Perhaps that is something Minelab took into consideration in the design. Do you think the extra power to the transmit coil will shorten its life?

However that should not be the case with putting boost on the receive signal.

I am just guessing here so please don't take it for fact.
I have Shaun's amp which is number 1 on your list.

Minelab or any detecting company builds a detector that can be used by many different people from many parts of the world for many different kinds of hunting. They put a product out that they feel can do all of the above with minimal experience at minimal cost to them. While the amp does increase the signal for deeper detecting it also magnifies tiny bits of metal and makes pinpointing harder to do. So is this worth paying extra for? For some yes and others no. Either way I will tell you that the amp is for people that know their Sovereign.

 

[ToniSteve]

Here is a field report. The amp is not made any more.

http://www.detectoramplifiers.com/Home_Page.php

If this does not work google Shaun's Amp and it will come up in the first 5 or so hits.

Best Regards,
Steve

 

[Critterhunter]

Really there are 3 ways. I think you are a little confused with "type 2" above. Number 1 is to increase the power to the TX coil like Shaun's amp. #2 would be an inline gain amplifier between the RX side of the coil and the machine. The sensitivity dial on the Sovereign is a gain amplifier, but if somebody used really high quality parts, shielding well, and with low noise, then using an external RX gain amplifier might prove of some benefit. It could boost the receieved signal to a certain level while keeping the signal more "pure" and intact (less noise) than the internal gain amplifier on the sensitivity dial. The third way to boost the signal would be an audio amplifier that takes the audio being put out by the machine and amplifies that. Really I think that method would have the least benefits if at all. With the volume all the way up on the machine it's plenty loud enough and ensures that even the softest of signals gets passed on by the audio amplifier to the headphones. If nothing is past on then there is nothing to amplify, so I don't see how one would help unless you had really bad hearing and needed stronger volume.

There's also a pre-amp inside the coil that takes the RX signal and gives it an initial boost. Not all detectors have this circuit. After some thought I think I know why it exists on the Sovereign. If the signal was left un-boosted it would be weaker and prone to picking up more noise as it traveled up the coil cable and into the machine...So when it's amplified there it would thus contain more noise. By beefing it up a bit right at the RX winding it makes it strong enough to not degrade on it's way to the gain amplifier inside the Sovereign.

The more I think about it I think I will shorten my coil cables some where down the road. Less cable to travel means less noise introduced, and also less resistance in the wire which should provide a stronger signal being received. Not only that, but a shorter cable would mean ever so slightly higher voltage at the TX winding due to less resistance. Shortening the cable and further shielding the control box might provide better signals at depth. The GT has shielding around the control board but not at the front or back of the control box. I figure you could glue tinfoil to the sides of the box for further shielding and then ground that to the existing shielding.

 

[OldBeechnut]

2. Boost Audio to Headphones
Well, I Guess I am the father of this with the Excalibur after reading CJC's Book, Again, Again, and Again ...other then page 58 Minelab Excalibur Theory & Practice, seems he did not realize the full potential of the AMP by what he states, Maybe he did not want to share that part for competition reasons?

The third way to boost the signal would be an audio amplifier that takes the audio being put out by the machine and amplifies that. Really I think that method would have the least benefits if at all. With the volume all the way up on the machine it's plenty loud enough and ensures that even the softest of signals gets passed on by the audio amplifier to the headphones. If nothing is past on then there is nothing to amplify, so I don't see how one would help unless you had really bad hearing and needed stronger volume.

It would seem to me also be the least benefits of the three, and maybe it is but the minelab Pi machines have been using this method for years for the extra punch.

What you guys are finding out about the performance of the TS {Amp} on an Excalibur is what we Gold Prospectors have known for years. On the Minelab Pulse induction machines once you put a Gold Screamer amp on you are amazed at the gold you find that you simply could not hear before.

I have tried the screamer on a few other detectors, the White's Dual Field, Garrett Infinium, Minelab SE, Excalibur's in Discriminate Mode And all it does is amp up the Audio to the point of annoy's. But with the Excalibur {In PP/AM} I am able to separate the target from the threshold. And this is Tuning the excal the same as the Minelab PI's


From Doc's site, on tuning the

How the Gold Screamer Helps you find MORE GOLD - Not just an amplifier it is truly a GOLD Target Sound AMPLIFIER.

PROPER ADJUSTMENT: The thing you have to do with the Gold Screamer is to take a test nugget and place it on the ground, swing over it and adjust the volume of the Gold Screamer up, and now turn the threshold down, swing over again and turn the GS up, threshold down. Keep doing this until you get a sense of the best setting. What you are trying to do is to separate the threshold from the target sound as far as you can, so what you are looking for is a nice quiet threshold, but when you come across a small target it really jumps out from the quiet threshold. You are trying to move the threshold far to the left, to the quiet side, and the signal far to the right to the loud side.

It is so easy to do and make the gold, even the little stuff, just pop out from the threshold.

So why it works only on the excalibur in the PP mode only, and the ML PI machines.....I have a Idea............

So I ask, is there any reason, if this actually works, why Minelab hasn't already incorporated this into the design

Could Minelab's put this in the new Excal/Sovereign's, Yes they could at very little cost...but why change things when these Great Machines are making them money...Which is the bottom line.

In both cases, it seems it should be possible to prove said amplification by burying a small target, in a given soil condition, until it cannot be heard. Then turn on the amp and be able to hear the target signal.

Have a road trip Jan..........Results coming in on both, and both together...............................Unfortunately Shaun's Amps are no longer being made so it is up to CH...............

 

[otlew]

Have a road trip Jan..........Results coming in on both, and both together...............................Unfortunately Shaun's Amps are no longer being made so it is up to CH...............

I am awaiting the results.

 

[Critterhunter]

Now that's interesting- that it works with PP mode (audio amplifier). I still say if the machine passes it on (amps it through the built in audio amplifier) then it's going to be heard at full volume, unless you have bad hearing. And if the machine doesn't pass it on then there is nothing for an external audio amplifier to amplify.

 

[synthnut]

Critter ,
When the threshold is turned that low, the power amp in the Sovereign does not have enough power to amplify this tiny tiny signal ..... The signal is there, but you can just barely hear it using the Sovereigns amplifier ......Once boosted by the external amp, you can hear it ...You are bringing your threshold extremely low , but yet it is still producing sound ....That's the setting you use when you barely hear a rise in the threshold when you go over a target in P.P. mode ..... These are the settings you use when you are preparing for DEEEEEEEEEP dig !!... This scenario really doesn't work well in area's where there are already a bunch of targets ..... It's better used in area's where you don't hear any targets for a while .... You can then use this scenario and listen for minor changes in threshold .....Be prepared to dig , because these targets go very deep ....

They recently pumped in new sand from the bay on this beach that I frequent ....They buried all the old targets and put this new sand on top of EVERYTHING .... What was once a beach full of targets is now quiet as a church mouse ..... I used the above method to try ot hear targets better , and hit my first target using this method and ended up digging down 1 1/2 ft to dig a scew cap that was nothing more than a small change in the threshold ..... You are digging EVERYTHING , so it's not for the weary, and no discrimination until you get within reason on the depth of digging ... .....Jim