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To Ryanchappel re:Pulse Induction MDs

joedirt

New member
I noticed that the other thread was closed so I could not respond there.

Here's an idea for what it's worth:

I have a PI detector as well as the Etrac. I use it in the water at the beach and in a fresh water sound near by.

It will sound off on ANY metal and I don't think mineralization effects PI detectors as much as VLF or FBS detectors.

Below is a snip from another site talking about how metal detector work: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/~jesse/treasure/misc/howdetector.html

"Discrimination

PI metal detectors are not capable of the same degree of discrimination as VLF metal detectors.

By increasing the time period between transmitter shut-off and the sampling point (pulse delay), certain metal items can be rejected. Aluminum foil will be the first to be rejected followed by nickel, pull tabs and gold. Some coins can be rejected at very long sample delays however, iron cannot be rejected.

There have been many attempts to design a PI that can reject iron however these attempts have had limited results. Iron is detectable at very long time delays however, silver and copper have similar characteristics. Such long time delays also have a negative affect on detection depth. Ground mineralization will cause some widening of the reflected pulse as well, changing the point at which a target responds or rejects. If the time delay is adjusted so that a gold ring doesn't respond in an air test, that same ring may respond in mineralized ground. Mineralized ground thus changes everything regarding the time delays and discrimination of PI metal detectors.
Ground Balance

Ground balancing, while very critical on VLF metal detectors, is not necessary with PI circuits. Average ground mineralization will not store any appreciable amount of energy from the search coil and will not usually produce a signal. Such ground will not mask the signal from a buried object. On the contrary, ground mineralization will add slightly to the duration of the reflected pulse increasing the depth of detection. The term "automatic ground balance" is often applied to PI instruments because it will normally not react to mineralization and there are no external adjustments for any specific ground conditions.

Heavy black sand is an exception. It will cause a VLF coil to overload, making metal detector penetration poor at best. A PI detector will work in black sand however, some false signals may result if the coil is held very close to the ground. Ground responses can be minimized by using a longer time delay between the shut-off and sample point (pulse delay). Advancing the time delay slightly will help to smooth out the noises caused by most mineralization. "

Perhaps you could borrow or buy a used PI detector and try those areas that have been "Hunted Out"

For the limited time I have used a PI detector I have discovered the following:

Loud screaming responses are either very large or very shallow targets.

Faint chirps are either very small or very deep targets.

If you use a PI detector that can get more depth and only chase those very faint signals, you may be able to pull up some of those old deep coins that nobody else can reach.

You may also go out of your mind if the area is littered with metal trash.

Just an idea.

Good luck.
 
This was at the end of the article so you will have to decide if the areas are worth the effort. If they have been picked over for years how "dirty" are they now?

I say this because me and a friend went to a school (Me with my Etrac and he with a Whites) that had been hunted for years and were both surprised at just how clean it was. We did find coins, but where shocked at the lack of surface trash.

If you have some sites like this, it might be worth a try.

"PI Summary Pulse Induction metal detectors are specialized instruments. They are generally not suitable for coin hunting urban areas because they do not have the ability to identify or reject ferrous (iron) trash. They can be used for relic hunting in rural areas where iron trash is not present in large quantities, or is desired. They are intended for maximum depth under extreme search conditions such as salt water beaches and highly mineralized ground. In such conditions PI type metal detectors produce superior results when compared to VLF models, particularly in the ability to ignore such extreme ground and penetrate it for maximum depth."
 
Daniel Tn, told me that he uses PI with success to relic hunt. Most of the places I have found good stuff have heavy to medium trash. I thought the GPXs had iron discrimination.

I once had to find a property line marker with a BH101 which could find non-ferrous targets or all metal, but I could not just hunt for iron only. So I made remembered where the non-ferrous targets were, and made a sweep in all metal, and dug the spot that was new, and it was the marker. I wonder if the electronics could handle a simular operation in PI detectors to eliminate iron.

Someone also mentioned that there is PI detector coming that has been supposedly in the works for 7 years , called the nemisis that can descriminate and go deeper than a GPX, but it is one of those stories that never comes true.
 
The GPX does have iron discrimination when using the DD coil. A mono coil is not capable of discrimination.

With the DD as soon as the detector sense iron the signal blanks out (nulls) until you cross over the target then the threshold returns. As Daniel has said, this works great in fields and areas where there is trash iron. The discriminator on the GPX goes from 1 to 10. I usually run around 5 depending on the number of trash signals I get. Cranked all the way up you will only dig trash made from brass. I will null on any iron object. Set in 5 it lets you make up your mind whether to dig or not. I personally had a few items that partially nulled so I dung them. Turns out that a brass button that is deteriorating will give off a partial iron signal at level 5. Had I been at level 9 or 10 I would have missed that. Without the DD and discrimination you will dig so many holes you'll get tired of digging.

For the average hunter the GPX goes deep enough. I personally have found a chunk of lead at 19" (it was a flat piece of camp lead) but I know of people that have gone deeper on bigger items. If you watch Jonathan Porters video The Outback Prospector you can watch him find a nugget at +22". It's pretty amazing.He was using an 18" mono coil.
 
I'm an etrac user who had the chance to try a GPX for one day in mineralized soils where the only trash was iron. After seeing how well it discriminated, I decided to start saving for a GPX 5000. Never thought I'd even consider a $5000 machine until I tried it!

I anticipate it will work well in the early 1800 colonial sites where there is no aluminum. Can't wait to try - but the cash just isn't there yet.
 
looking at the 5000 myself does it go in water how good do you really think it is i need a deep detector and is it heavy please
 
The GPX 5000 is not a water detector. However, you can get Coiltek coils that are water proof and the coil and could be submerged. But, since the battery is separate from the actual control box (and is normally worn on the belt behind the back) it would be difficult to use the GPX in or near water. To dig, I have to set my machine on the ground and I'm still limited buy the length of the power cable from the battery to the unit.

Because, the control box is directly under my elbow I don't find the unit that heavy. I do have a Herb Browning carbon fiber upper shaft. I also adjusted the coil further out using the holes in the shaft. My unit is pretty well balanced.
 
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