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Tornado Coil for the X-Terra

That sounds like a wire that has come loose somewhere. I had the same problem with my X-terra a couple of months back, but it was in the control box and didn't recognise any coil.
Mick Evans.
 
His other Minelab coils still work fine Mick
 
David said:
What size is that New Nel Big.??
Click to expand...

They dont say the coil size anywhere, but it seems to be 15" or bigger.:crylol:
 
.....that'll throw the cat amongst the pigeons!!!!..........I'm laying low!!! :lol:
 
Don't worry about the pigeons. I kicked the cat out of the sand box! As I've stated before, I have ZERO regard for a company who pirates someone elses licensed technology(we call that stealing where I come from). And I would not connect a piece of equipement to my metal detector that hasn't worked with the manufacture to insure they meet the specifications of those who designed and built that detector.

With that in mind, did you notice that the tests were done with two different models of X-TERRAs? In addition, they didn't mention what the settings were for either detector or coil. We don't even know if they bothered to set a noise channel or ground balance either one. And we have no idea as to where they set the Sensitivity for either detector. With that said, I do believe it is possible to compare two coils against one another. But not by using two different detectors and not using the same settings for both.

I don't have a problem if someone actually has both coils and wants us to see his comparisons. But I will not allow someone to make posts to this forum, when the only posts they make are links to corporate videos of a product that does nothing to support this forum. JMHO RANDY
 
I still think the new Coiltek WOT for the Xterra will spank this commie block coil. I just need more rain here in the relic fields to prove it!!! MO
 
......I understand what you're saying Randy but in my mind.....the Coiltek coil was only made in response to the NEL coil. I think if the NEL coil wasn't made, you wouldn't have seen the Coiltek one.
Secondly.......are we completely sure that the VFlex patent covered the Ukraine???....maybe Minelab didn't think that they could produce kit like this so didn't bother stretching the patent coverage???

XTerra owners have been crying out for larger coils for longer than I remember and in my mind have been forgotten by Minelab. Nobody has ever told me why they didn't produce the VFlex Pro Coil???.....if they did.....we wouldn't even be having this conversation!!!

I also believe that NEL are an amalgamation of an American AND Ukraine company.........

JMO........Gaz.
 
I agree with gaz, people have been after a coil like this for ages. If minelab had listened to their users, there wouldnt have been a need for this coil. I know when i thought about a coil made in the ukraine i thought it was going to be a cheaply made bit of tat. But these coils aren't tat, they are very well made and quality bits of kit. Just what the xterra owners have been after.
 
Some good points here. Randy is right if it was pirated then it is wrong and, if so, we should not have regard for this company. But as Gaz said maybe the V-Flex and coil chip patents are not covered in the Ukraine and they are not breaking the law, is something to enquire about?

Yes maybe the X-Terra WOT, to compete with Nel, would not have been made if not for the X-Terra Nel coil(s)?

Gaz you believe Nel is an amalgamation of an American AND Ukraine company. Also we should not say 'this commie block coil', this block being the Soviet Union(USSR) was dissolved and fell apart in 1991(20 years ago) and became the independent countries of Russia, the Ukraine, etc. There is no longer communism in the Ukraine. I have a very high regard for Ukrainian people, have many as friends, there are large numbers of them living close me here, you cannot ask for a better people. http://www.history.alberta.ca/ukrainianvillage/default.aspx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Cultural_Heritage_Village Also we do not know if the WOT will spank the Nel coil, but if they are pirated I will pull for the WOT and be against Nel, but if not, if the patents are not covered in the Ukraine then I will give Nel a fair chance.
 
Gaz said:
.the Coiltek coil was only made in response to the NEL coil. I think if the NEL coil wasn't made, you wouldn't have seen the Coiltek one.
Secondly.......are we completely sure that the VFlex patent covered the Ukraine???....maybe Minelab didn't think that they could produce kit like this so didn't bother stretching the patent coverage???



Hi All,
I think I would like to clarify something.

Coiltek was working on the collaboration with Minelab on this new coil well before NEL released (or counterfeited) the VFLEX technology. The Coiltek coil was always on the project list, its just that NEL released theirs before we announced the release of our coil. Just a timing thing.
To make a coil work with the X-TERRA units you either work with the company to utilise the official Interface circuitry or you copy / reverse engineer the circuitry and make it work. To me this is direct counterfeiting. We all know the coils will not work unless the circuitry is included in the coil. It is not like the other machines (GPX and coin machines) which only need copper windings to work.

It is up to the customer to decide how they wish to spend their money and It is not up to me to make people decide, but I can make people aware on what their money supports.


Regards,
Trevor
Click to expand...
 
Speaking as someone who was involved in Field Testing the X-TERRAs as well as the Coiltek 15" coil, I can say that Coilteks' 15" coil was being developed before the NEL coils were announced. I can also attest the the fact that Minelab produced at least 3 "prototype" coils of various sizes. Two of them were the "Pro" style coil as you eluded to. And one was a bit smaller. Unfortunately, Field Test results on these three coils did not meet Minelab's criteria for the coils to be mass produced. That doesn't mean that Field Testers have higher expectations than the general public. Nor does it mean that some other manufacturer in some other part of the world couldn't build a similar coil and consider it "good enough" for public consumption. It just means that Minelab did not believe that these specific prototype coils were "up to the standard" that X-TERRA user's expect.

As to whether or not any patent laws were broken by NEL.......not being familiar with how International Patent laws are enforced, I can only speculate. Regardless, the fact still remains that Coiltek worked with the engineers at Minelab to develop a coil that meets Minelab's stringent design criteria and is 100% compatible with all X-TERRAs. As you are aware, the NEL Tornado coil available for the X-TERRA 70 and 705 will not work on the X-TERRA 30 or 305. When one "unlicensed" product requires two different coils for use on the X-TERRA, depending on which model of X-TERRA you were using it on, one might speculate that NEL's design specifications are not the same as implemented with the Coiltek coil or Minelab coils. JMHO HH Randy
 
.......well......okay.....I hear what you're saying but lots of people out there have the NEL coils and are reporting great things about them.

.....again.....don't shoot the messenger guys.....NEL produced a coil and I thought I'd give it go.....that's all......it's working great for me!

I know they don't have the VFlex chips in them but I don't remember all this happening when Detech launched their SEF coils?.........

There are many people....even mods on a certain other Minelab dedicated UK site that are praising the NEL coils.......

Just my thoughts.....no malice..... :surrender:
 
Gaz, I don't want to seem as if I am shooting the messenger. I continue to appreciate your contributions to this forum and respect your thoughts and ideas. So if you have a coil that works well for you, congrats!

The problem I have with the NEL coils is primarily that they are making a product for folks to use on their X-TERRA which has not been authorized by the manufacturer of the detector. How do we know what specifications were used to manufacture it? How do we know what effect it could have on the detector itself? How will using this coil effect the warranty should something go wrong?

You said that the NEL coils don't have the VFLEX chip in them.........My question would then be, is the NEL coil really VFLEX? .......The digital data link between the coil and control box is the basis for VFLEX technology. Everytime you turn on an X-TERRA, the microprocessor in the control housing communicates with the microchip in the coil to establish operating parameters. This digital link helps to maximize the X-TERRAs performance by minimizing the effects of ground mineralization, electromagnetic interference and temperature changes. In other words, for an X-TERRA to operate properly, it must have a chip in the coil that communicates to the control housing. Otherwise, you've defeated the purpose of VFLEX technology. Does NEL implement chips in their coils or have they bypassed VFLEX technology? Without tearing it apart, it is difficult to tell. Next time you turn yours on with that coil, take note of what the screen has displayed on it after pressing the Menu pad and then holding down the Accept//Reject pad. Minelab specs call for it to display the design and frequency, in letters. (c for concentric, d for DD, L for low freq, s for standard 7.5 freq and h for high freq) For example a Low Frequency concentric is displayed as cL. Mid freq concentric is cS. High freq concentric is cH. DD at standard freq is dS and DD at high freq is dH. Thanks in advance. I'd be interested to hear what those letters are on the NEL.

As to Detech and their SEF coils......Could it be that Detech had an agreement with Minelab that included meeting certain design criteria? Or, is it possible that it could have something to do with the fact that the patent dates on FBS and BBS detectors were established long before the introduction of VFLEX? I do know that among the companies making coils for Minelab products, (including Detech, SunRay and Coiltek) only Coiltek has currently reached an agreement with Minelab on manufacturing coils for the X-TERRA. The rest is merely speculation. JMHO HH Randy
 
Not sure how they got it to display numbers. If after turning it on, pressing the Menu pad and holding down the accept/reject pad, it should show two letters. The first letter is lower case and represents the design. Either c for concentric or d for DD coil design. The second letter is capitalized and represents the frequency. L is for the 3 kHz low freq. S is for the standard 7.5 kHz freq and H is for the 18.75 kHz high freq. HH Randy
 
......I actually said the Detech coils didn't have chips in them!.....for the Explorers and other manufacturers.
I did the coil test when I first got it.......it recognises it as a DD medium frequency coil with the appropriate letters......not sure what else to say really?....
 
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