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Video Deeper Coin - TTF VS. Conductive Multi, Deep On Vs Off, Fast on Vs Off

E

earthmansurfer

Active member
Here is a deeper coin and I compared Two Tone Ferrous on it vs. Conductive Multi-tone. I then compared Deep on Vs. off and then Fast on Vs. Off. But

Let me know what you think about the setting differences. I am still up in the air about deep on or off helping. At least it's not obvious and perhaps 7" - 8" coins aren't deep enough for it! But realistically I would think that should be. I do think fast on with Deep on is a bit shorter than with fast off with deep on. (Not in the video, but I played with trash on high or not and it didn't make a difference to other coins and targets in trash, with or without fast on.) Would like to know if anyone has really tested the settings side by side on targets.

I listened to the advice and had some longer swings in there. On some other targets the trash didn't make it possible though - that is sometimes the problem. I also made an effort to have the coil against the grass well, but it's a bit long and that is tough.

Just click on 480 at the bottom to see it better - fullscreen.

Enjoy,
EMS

ps - Watch out for sheep...

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oBfQRwMvNQ[/video]
 
Fast on chops the signal off for me a little early. Not a full signal iow. Deep on just amplifies the lower volume targets "deeper targets" as you can hear them better. I run fast off, deep off. I love the full warble flutey note the machine emits when ran that way. Very easy to pick out a target in multitone.
 
I think Fast on is pretty much for very trashy areas and objects that are not very deep otherwise it chops deeper signals too much not giving good sound info on it like it should like on shallow targets which are usually east to distinguish anyways.
Your finding most stuff at 7"-8" and it's not really trashy just iron when you did TTF so fast off is the way to go Deep on didn't seem to hurt the signal so I would leave it on in case of a really deep signal like 9-12" or so to see if it helps it come in better.

Notice that when in the wide open quick mask screen when you were in TTF and Conductive modes the ferrous no. and cursor didn't only go down to a point around mid 20's (24-25FE) and tried to bounce back up towards the 12 line and not to the bottom lower 30-35FE area so that is a diggable target to me. It was the same in both Conductive and TTF modes that cursor didn't want to go down any further so it would be a dig me signal. If that cursor went on down to the last lower bit 30 -35FE area and bounced around or stayed there then I say it's iron messing with you move on and don't dig it. Good call.

At first after having located the target your sweeps over it to me were too wide back and forth and a bit slow over it then when you went into TTF and shortened the swing and were brisker back and forth with it see how it makes it come in better/clearer amoungst the other signals. Then you did the same after switching back to Conductive mode that was good and it was better. So when hunting you sweep a bit slower to be able to hear the good amoungst the not so good then you hone in over that good spot and go a bit faster and short swings and it brings it right in for ya to help decide if your liking what you hear then the other things are checked numbers, cursor, etc. then dig or not dig. Good job there.

Like your videos and effort best to you keep them coming.
 
Great job on the video.

SHEEPS???? Say it AIN'T so.....:rofl::rofl:

My kind (student) did not like your kind (English Teacher)... but I will say this. I would've liked my English Teacher to metal detect and also admit when he said "SHEEPS"!!!!

Was that really a Zinc. Looked like an IH. What was a Zinc doing that deep in that area?

NebTrac
 
Nice video. Thanks for posting it.

I wonder if the "fast on" setting can be left off and made up for by swinging a lot slower? In other words, instead of electronically trying to increase the ability of the detector to recover and respond to another target quickly, what if we just slowed way down?

Just thinking out loud.

Thanks,

Arnie
 
Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys. I appreciate it.

As you can see, my idea for these videos is to be able to get input and discover just how these settings work and the affects they have. Of course there will be variations depending on our sites and other settings, but it still helps me to hear what you all have to say as well as it's great for winter when we can't go. Just go back and watch these and see what we notice. Sometimes focusing just on the screen, or just the sound and then of course both. Things stand out in different ways when we change the input.

I'm getting the hang of it Tom. ;-) Seriously for the purpose of the video I tried to mix the swings up (after the last suggestions you all made - you and Bill said wider swings), just to see what sounded better and such. But generally when hunting I have a pretty wide swing, then when I find a target I narrow it down real quick. (As I'm going for deeper stuff and often only hear a small response or chirp on the full swing.) I will use fast on when the area is really loaded with stuff, 10 or 15 feet from where I shot the video actually. I follow you on the bounces, I've noticed that and love how it works. Having that Fe number really really aids in deeper targets, especially in my iron mineralized and iron laden soil. I heard a good analogy on another forum. The man said imagine a man on a trampoline. Well, the further you "pull" him down (deeper coin) the further he will bounce up or something like that. I have found it to be true in general. As coins get deeper the Fe number often gets lower and hence the bounce higher. Not always true of course, but good to watch out for.

NebTrac - I'm in Germany and that Zinc coin was probably a Nazi coin from later in the war. They switched to Zinc to same the more valuable materials - luckily it didn't help! There are other coins that were zinc, but I mostly find the Nazi coins out of zinc from 41' to 43' or so. I can't even read them most of the time but think "Damn, another Nazi..." But I don't mind on the deeper signals - great practice.

Jack - Deep on - I'm not sure it amplifies the signal. I believe you if that is what you have found. But for sure, you can amplify deep signals in the audio menu. What Deep on definitely does, according to the manual, is use further filtering to aid in target ID. The manual says "In the deep setting there will be a slightly slower reaction in target signal and Target ID due to the extra filtering tha tis employed in the processing of the target characteristics." It also says to use it in relatively uncluttered areas, which considering the following, makes sense. But I'll keep running it for as Tom said it will probably help on the real deep ones from 9" to 12". I have only touched 9" once and really want to dig a coin at 12"!

ArnieTX - GREAT POINT. There is a very good detectorist that swings the E-Trac. He is on another forum and goes by the name of Angel something. Anyway. he said that very thing. Because of the "clipping" of the sound, he just turns fast off and swings slower, think he has trash high set. Trash High seems to also help compensate for as it says in the manual "The high setting allows you to detect accepted targets in the presence of ferrous objects, high ground mineralization or amongst a number of rejected targets." I think this is the "see through" ability and not exactly recovery speed.

Lastly, I'm surprised no one commented on TTF - but I guess not many people use it. I made another video and didn't upload it as the target ended up being an 8" metal fragment (but it hit just like a coin VDI wise). I should upload it actually as it really shows masking (bad) in TTF and it came through in conductive. I think one mode will always miss a coin due to certain factors and the other mode might pick it up. Also, I'm just not as experienced in TTF. I'll have to get that video up, even though it's not a coin.

Thanks again guys,
Alberrt
 
Fast off in conductive definitely made the signal sound more diggable. Great test and video.
 
Albert you got it exactly right, on DEEP it just filters the target signal more to possiably help with the reading but supposedly slows it down a bit on the reading on the screen but I don't really notice that myself.

NOW if one wants to AMPLIFY a signal that is what GAIN is for it makes deep signals louder so they are like shallow signals but it does nothing for shallow signals just deepies so you can hear them better and not miss a really deep target while your out swinging.

It says if the area has a good amount of target signals (somewhat trashy) then don't run it too high as it may give you a bit of trouble with all the target signals jumbling together. In that case i would want to hear the difference between deep older and shallow louder targets like in a park or school. I usually run at 24-25 BUT if I was in a field not a park like you are I would go to 29 so as to possiably hear a bit deeper if there was a good signal down there or hear those 8" targets better.

GAIN allows you to hear better on deeper targets and higher MANUAL mode than what you can run in Auto+3 mode will punch the signal deeper. I think one can run Manual too high like Stacy in one of your earlier videos says like the headlights in fog scenario. Your case your Auto+3 is almost maxed out sensitivity wise so going from 29 Auto to 30 Manual isn't really a lot of difference.

I only usually get 17-19 in Auto+3 around here so I would try low 20's manual not 25-30 for my soil as that may be too much for my minerlized soil here. Another good learning video and disscusion Albert.
 
I do not use deep on, with the tests i have done it seems target ID to me is not as stable, I choose to run my gain at 29 always to hear deeper targets, fast on and deep off. I do not hunt anywhere where targets are not close together, so fast ON is a must for me.
 
Thanks for the comments.

Tom - Thanks for your points and I take what you say in. I think my gain is at 27. I don't see much of a softening in sound and I think I'll try 24 - 25 as you do. I see what you are saying though about not drowning out the softer signal in trash. As you can see most of the trash here is iron, so I don't know what to think. I'll play with it next time out, thanks for the suggestion. Ideally, I'd like to find some settings and just stick with them, only changing them on occasion. Then I get a consistency across the board. I think most of the time I'll run trash on high, fast on off. I have to test the ground like in the manual to see if difficult or neutral goes higher before picking up the ground when in manual (I haven't done that yet).

One point to disagree with though Tom, I think there is (and in most cases can be) a somewhat substantial difference between auto 29 +3 and Manual 30 and my other video (9" target and TTF "masking...") showed a much better signal imo on the latter. Auto 29 means that 29 is the highest channel. The other channels might be at 26 and 22. Manual 30 means 30 30 30 on the channels. Even Manual 27 is probably quite a bit stronger (most of the time) than auto 29 +3. I'm guessing a bit with the numbers but judging by the target response I'd say there was a big difference. When I switched to auto 29 +3 you can notice that the response cut out in one direction and the other direction was less pronounced. In manual 30 both directions were strong.

Goes4Ever - I really like you site by the way, thanks for sharing the info. As I said above, I think I'm going to try running deep off and fast off. It did appear in some of my videos (and a poster commented on that) that deep off looked or sounded better, I forget. Maybe in cleaner ground deep on will do more?

Thanks again guys, I really love getting your input and am learning lots,
Albert
 
Your right about that Albert I was just meaning one number difference is all. Forgot about the 3 channels and it's only the one not all 3 that are cranked to the max like in 30 manual so yes there is a good difference there one from the other.

Goes4ever has way more experience with this machine than I do so I defer to him and what he states and his site has helped me bunches too great teacher there.
 
Albert I have for you something new :bouncy: try different Noise channels on the same deep target, you will see some different. in my experiments channel 1 is better in iron and for smaller targets, 11 is more for ignoring iron.
 
stasys said:
Albert I have for you something new :bouncy: try different Noise channels on the same deep target, you will see some different. in my experiments channel 1 is better in iron and for smaller targets, 11 is more for ignoring iron.
Click to expand...

Thanks stasys and if you are right I will take you to this spot when you are in town!

So, you mean one is more sensitive? And 11 is more see through?
 
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