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Want to know just how harsh ground can be on your Coin successes?

:usmc:
My non controlled test was in air with the standard BH coil on my Pioneer 505. All items tested sounded in the All Metal mode however, in the Discriminate Mode, Sensitivity all the way Low, Discrimination all the way Low, I had the following results. As a general rule, keep in mind that Hot Rocks covered with the surrounding soils and or sands and gravels will usually blend in or mask out by the effects of ground real close to the surface or a bit deeper with a concentric coil. These Hot Rocks in these pictures are an assortment of ones I've found here along the Salmon River with my Whites Gold Master that is an All Metal, Threshold, manual Ground Balance machine. My Pioneer 505 can find them on or just a tad bit below surface where my Gold Master with a DD coil will get these rascals deeper.

The picture with 3 rocks and coins were some of my hottest rocks but the left rock in that picture is a mean one and the 505 auto ground balances it out and masks out every coin and both .22 bullets I put behind it. The picture with a red rock above the ruler and second from right are hot rocks but are not as hot as the others are. As you can tell, they can come in all sorts. The picture with the bag is a bag of cleaned Black Sand and has one .22 bullet and another one deformed and flat laying on it. Soft lead tends to give close to the same response as Gold nuggets about the same size so I thought I would throw it in my little test. Now I know the effects ground and hot rocks can have on detecting in my area but I'm trying to impress upon those who rely on Discrimination, classifying Tones, and automatic Ground Balance machines, just what they may be losing or leaving behind. There is a reason some of us Old School that detect by Sound, not classifying Tones, dig at times everything we hear. It all comes down to how bad you want what it is you are looking for. Granted though, I doubt most others across the U.S. would have the conditions I have here in Idaho to deal with.

Disc. Mode: Zinc Penny reads as 1 Cent/Zinc Penny, when behind the small rock at right, reads Iron/Foil, behind center rock, reads Iron/Foil, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: Copper Penny reads as 1 Cent/Dime, when behind small rock at right, reads Iron/Foil, behind center rock, reads Iron/Foil, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: Dime reads as 1 Cent/Dime, when behind small rock at right, reads Iron/Foil, behind center rock, reads Iron/Foil, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: Nickle reads as PT/5 Cents, when behind small rock at right, reads Iron/Foil, behind center rock, reads Iron/Foil, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: Quarter reads as 25 Cents, when behind small rock at right, jumped between 1 Cent/Zinc and 1 Cent/Dime, behind center rock, reads as Pull Tab, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: .22 Bullet (normal shape) reads as PT/5 Cents, when behind small rock at right, no response, behind center rock, no response, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: .22 Bullet (deformed, flat) , reads PT/5 Cents, when behind small rock on right, no response, behind center rock, no response, behind left rock, no response.

Disc. Mode: Bag of cleaned Black Sand responds as Iron/Foil.
 
Very interesting. Thanks.

So the effect of the hot rocks is to shift things to the left, towards the iron end of the spectrum. Items like gold nuggets/lead bullets which are already far to the left get shoved off the scale and don't even appear. Is that about right?

Do hot rocks and black sand (magnetic iron oxide) exhibit similar traits like this?

How well did the Gold Master do on the same targets under the same conditions?

Mark
 
:usmc:
Without putting a coin or gold nugget under a hot rock mostly buried in soil which I'm sure would make them even worse to detect for the 505, the iron end of the spectrum seems to be where minimum sinsitivity and discrimination is going to send you. I should have got a $5 Gold coin and an old Silver Dollar I have and seen what they respond like.

The 505 will hit on Hot Rocks in the All Metal mode. Now in the air with those same hot rocks, I put the 505 in the All Metal mode. Next, I put each rock about an inch from the coil bottom and at the center area then pressed Ground Trac to ground balance off of each hot rock. No matter which of the 3 hot rocks (by them selves) I Ground Trac, when I add the coin behind the rocks or without the rocks, I can detect all of the coins but is by sound, not tones, and they are plenty audible. When you do this, you have taken out the hot rock so are not hearing it. Problem is, it's still dig all, not all hot rocks are the same, there are even Cold Rocks, if you Ground Trac a hot rock with a coin with it, you Ground Trac out the coin as well and the 505 is a silent hunt machine, has no SAT or Self Adjusting Threshold, and you are going to be regularly re-setting Ground Trac so not to over ground balance and miss targets.

When I do the same air test with both .22 bullets, there is a whole different outcome. Ground Trac off the small rock at the right, the normal shaped bullet on end or layed flat to the coil, no responce, the deformed flat bullet sounds off clearly when layed flat to the coil but has no responce when turned on end. None respond to the center and left rocks Ground Trac settings.

It looks like to me that Gold in hot soil or around hot rocks is going to be a challange for the 505 in the All Metal Mode unless the Gold is big enough and happen on to it with just the right Ground Trac. Looks like it would work better in the Disc. Mode. I think a .22 bullet is at or about 29-32 grain but would have to look. You can see with the .22 Bullets and these hot rocks, just how close they are in All Metal to being ground balanced out by Ground Trac'ed hot rocks. You can see now how tough it can get to hear Gold. The smaller it gets and the hotter the ground, it gets worse and this example is just in the air.

So not to confuse those learning the Bounty Hunter units, I'd rather not put much in here about the Gold Master. Though there are a few similarities in operation, they are also worlds apart in operation. When you take up a Gold detector though they will find coins (All Metal), you have to forget how to hunt coins and learn how to hunt Gold and your listening for sounds (not tones) most coin hunters would never recognize a need to dig.
 
I am pleased to see the work you have put into the 505 and hot ground. I have a 505 in Australia and have not used it for gold yet and there are lots of sites not as hot as the area where you are. In all metal mode the machine is very sensitive but have had trouble with the ground track. Sometimes after pressing the ground track button the machine goes quiet so I have to press either the ground track or the all metal button again. Could you please tell me (and Isuspect others) the correct way to ground balance in that mode...aussie
 
Could you do the $5 Gold coin and an old Silver Dollar.....along with a silver dime...... test in the soil......and let us know the results.
 
well I have been a bit slow but here are my results. We have completely different currency to you so I used our $1 , $2 and a 2c piece which is copper and abot 3/4" wide. The $1 dollar is made of a type of brass I think and is about 1/2" wide, the $1 is made of the same material but about 3/4" wide. In discriminate no discrimination the $2 cut out at 6", the $1 and the 2c just made it to 8". In all metal you can pick them all up at 9"........didnt go any deeper as I felt that wasa pretty good effort. I dont think my xterra 705 would do as well with a concentric coil. One question, have you used the 505 with 4" coil in discrimination mode?, or even all metal. Apparently I have trouble with groundtrac if I set it on rocks or foreign objects. I look forward to your comments. By the way we have had great success with a tracker1v and a 4" coil, very sensitive but not much depth
 
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