Was I fooled? Good signal after a null, only with faster sweep speed???

[silverman]

Hello, as I am trying to get reacquainted with the e-trac, I have a question about something I'm sure all of you have experienced. I had several phantom signals on my hunt yesterday. I would start to dig, and they were gone. My x-1 could not find it, but a null was there as I got to where the target was pinpointed. Then, I would run the coil back over, and could not hear it. I still worry I missed a good target. I would have a good sound after a null, and could not pick it back up. I started only digging hits that would repeat from both right and left sweeps. I also tried to sweep from various angles. The repeated hits would always provide a good find. I am afraid I missed some good targets, but talked myself into believing it was just iron that fooled my detector briefly. I run a modified coin program, and have fast recovery off. I'm wondering if I should have turned it on now, or changed any other setting. I tried slow sweeps, and it seems to only hit on the signals after a null when my sweep speed increased. If I went slow, nothing signaled. Any suggestions/thoughts?
Any help is appreciated.

 

[CDDZ]

Sounds like you hunting spot was filled with many nails. Nail head can fool you and make it seem like a sweet target. Try that location with 2 Tone ferrous next time, you may be impressed with what you find

 

[OhioCoinHunter]

Many times I've dug coins from signals that sounded good from one direction and nulled in the other. A possible cause for that is the angle of the coin in the ground. It may not be perfectly flat but on a steep angle. Another cause is iron (or any metal you've discriminated out) in close proximity to the coin. It could be adjacent to the coin or above it and partially masking it from one direction.

I usually hunt with slow sweeps. However recently I went back to a site I have hunted to death and swung the coil much faster...and I started getting some good signals. Weird. I can't explain it, but some targets hit better with faster sweeps and other targets hit better with slower sweeps. I think the key is to not get stuck on one way of hunting - for example, like always hunting slowly. Sometimes you can coax good signals from their hiding places with faster sweeps. I'm saying that on some of those targets where I swung the coil fast, I got a good, solid signal. When I slowed the sweep speed down, the signal almost disappeared. That's what led me to the conclusion that coil sweep speeds are important. Everybody always says, "Slow down, junior!" But sometimes speeding up yield positive results. You may not have to change any settings, just sweep speeds.

I rarely get phantom signals. If it sounds good, I'll dig. If the depth meter says the target is only 4 inches deep and I've dug a 9 inch hole and still have found nothing, then it's probably deep, rusty iron. The depth meter is only accurate for coin-sized objects.

Another thing you can do if you dig a hole deeper than the depth meter says - and haven't found the target - is to raise your coil about 8 to 10 inches up off the ground. If you're still getting a good signal, then it's definitely a large hunk of deep iron.

Also I must say that a few times I've pinpointed targets and found nothing because the object in the ground was being detected by either the left or right side of the dd coil instead of the center. It doesn't happen very often. It's just one of those weird things that can happen with a dd coil.

 

[silverman]

Thanks CDDZ, I will try the 2 Tone ferrous next time, and see how I like it.

Thanks Ohiocoinhunter, I will start to trust the signal in the signal direction. It hasn't worked the times I have dug, but if there is a possibility it is a good target, I will dig. Thanks for verifying I
m not crazy about slow sweep speed. It just depends on a variety of factors I guess. Thanks for the iron tip as well. I will definitely add it to my next hunt. This is an old 1890's sites that use to have many old cabins. It's about 5 acres, so I have a long way to go.

 

[NebTrac]

Dan is right on target. I will say this. There is a park I hunt (showed in my last 2 videos). I've only hunted this park 3 times. It is the most out of anywhere that I have dug 1 way hits and had them produce good results. I will probably did 'til kingdom come at that spot on good hits either 1 way or 2 way.

Others spots have done just like Dan stated.

What I'm getting at is dig a few of them signals and see what turns up, then make your "executive" decision from there.

NebTrac

 

[silverman]

Thanks for the advise NebTrac!

 

[tippyhound]

Silverman - I live in central Illinois and this is coal country so cinders and iron are a way of life here. People burned coal for heat from the early teens to the late sixties and they were always looking for places to dump those cinders, so if they had a hole that needed filled allot of cinders and a little dirt was the rural of thumb.

Broken one way signals are very common and as long as I can get a fairly clean one way signal with a reading of CO 41 to 47 and I can pinpoint the target I will dig it. I had one today that was very choppy sounding so I circled the target till I got a half way clean signal showing CO 41 and 6" deep. When I dug this target and I got down a few inch's the target disappeared. I could not locate it with the E-trac or the pin pointer. A trick I try when this happens to me is to switch to Quick mask which I run with no discrimination and see if the signal can be located that way and it was, so I kept digging till I located my target which turned out to be a very warn 1918 Mercury dime that was burnt black on the back from laying on cinders.

Quick Mask has worked for me on many iffy choppy targets. It doesn't always work, but more often then not it does. I hope this will help you. Rick

 

[utahshovelhead]

Very good info here. On any iffy type target I will switch many of the settings to id it as a good target before I dig. If I cant stand not knowing the possible then I will dig...many of those that I dig disapear or turn into iron but once in a while they are good targets ussually deeper than 6 inches. But 90 % of the time just taking off the top 4 inches of dirt will let the machine get a better read.

If the target turns into a solid hit and you dig down and it disapears then keep digging as it is on side or moved.

Most of the time an open Quick Mask screen will put iffy signals into the xy matrix but if they are moveing still then not one of those have turned into a decent target for me.

good luck,
utahshovelhead

 

[silverman]

Thanks tippyhound, I'm a southern Illinois man myself. Your right on the money about cinders and iron. I must confess, I don't use Quick mask like I should. I will give this a try next time, no doubt.

Thanks utahshovelhead, I can't stand not knowing either. You have both made me want to utilize the Quick Mask feature more than I have.

Thanks you both very much.

 

[Yeasty]

I just read a really good tip from another forum whose name cant be mentioned here. The tip is to first insure there is no iron near the spot which you pile the dirt from the hole. If there is iron there it will mask (null) out the good target you are looking for.

 

[Nick A]

Dan (OhioCoinHunter) has it right. I definitely use slow and overlapping as my standard practice, however, when I get an iffy signal, I use both slow sweeps and fast sweeps (and the pinpoint function as well as quickmask) to analyze the target before I dig. I do it so quickly and without thinking, I don't even consider it really. One thing to be aware of in general is that faster sweeps combined with high sensitivity settings can increase falsing.

Falsing can also happen with targets on the surface. The side of your coil will pick up the surface target and give a ghost signal about 5-6" to the side of the surface item at a decent depth. This is where using the pinpoint helps isolate the surface target (and you may be able to tell if there are two targets or just one). However, it is NOT always a ghost! Several times I have dug the surface item to get it out of the way and the "ghost" signal turned out to be a good target. I have gotten better at telling these particular ghosts from co-located targets, but it is a skill that comes with many many hours on the machine and a lot of times, you just have to dig that junk out of the way.

If you pinpoint a good signal and it's not a ghost, and there's nothing in the hole using the SunRay probe you are probably dealing with iron, and you have disturbed the clump of rust so that it now reads correctly. By using the SunRay in pinpoint (all metal) mode you should be able to locate the item, whatever it is - iron or not (And you'll be surprised at the little tiny scraps of metal, buttons, etc. the machine will detect as you chase them through the dirt pile with the probe.). But I have also had occasions where the item is just deeper than I expected and the probe cannot pick it up. Here again, all metal on the probe may help (as may hitting the right arrow to bump up your sensitivity while using the probe), but anymore if I think it might be good, I remove more dirt from the hole to make sure it's not just something good that's out of range of the probe. I know for sure I have left good deep targets in holes because my probe did not pick them up and I thought "no way" they could be deeper. I was wrong. I know better now. The E-Trac at auto-sensitivity +3 goes plenty deep.

Another note about high sensitivity, you will miss targets due to overload if you run the machine too hot. Once again, I've learned my lesson here. I was used to running the Explorer a little hot all the time and I carried that over with the E-Trac. I started messing with things a bit, and especially in trashy areas, running the machine hot means it's also hot on the trash and your target separation (the strength of the machine) suffers. In a park or school hunt, I will never run high manual sensitivity again. Auto +3 is my new rule.

Not all good hits will repeat at 90 degrees. There is no surefire, perfect method to not missing anything. I have had good targets where if I can X them at 45 degrees right and left of the original scan, I'll still dig. It's a judgement call based on experience. I don't think it's reasonable or possible to dig everything, but you learn to tilt the probability in your favor by taking in all the info the machine can give you and knowing your site. I'm generally hunting the same old parks I and others have been hitting for decades and still pulling out keepers. Just resign yourself to the fact that you can never get it all and focus on what you can get. If you try to get everything all in one trip you'll just make yourself nuts.

I have not found any significant differences in performance with fast on/off or deep on/off.

 

[silverman]

Yeasty, never thought about the dirt pile, thanks a million for that. That is a great tip.

Nick A, Thanks so much for the input. I do run auto +3 as well. All of your info is very helpful. Given what you stated, I think I was dealing with mostly iron. Can't wait to get out there and add all these suggestions to my techniques. Thanks for the info on the fast on/off or deep on/off question I have been contemplating.

Thanks for the time you have put into my question.