well I got the answer on the ferorus audio

[Jim upstate NY]

It does not change on coins, not what I wanted to hear... I can understand the reasoning in some situations where everything will be dug and very little modern trash around.. even then its nice to know you are over a possible coin, but lots of parks, home sites and houses have loads of iron as well as modern trash.. forcing one to use conductive in high iron is forcing them to listen to all the iron falsing with high tones, and harder to hear the good target mixed in with iron, where you can work the tone up, I guess I should have figured it out by the MLO video, the dime and cut silver penny sounded the same...

Even relic hunting has plenty of modern trash in most places, and at least with the variable audio it alerted you to check the target out closer.. now you will have to rely on the digital or screen completely and look at every signal.. Hopefully in ferrous its ID is fast enough to get a good and fast reading on the screen at least.. but stopping and checking each target gonna override the response time improvement.. It was always something I had to fire back on the explorer with.. The guys with faster machines dug many more targets, but I could find as much or most times more good stuff because of the audio.. even with having to swing slower

What I don't understand is why make a new detector with all its possible info and not use it? If people want a single tone they can always set it up for one or two tones, as you could on the explorer, if I wanted that I would set it that way... And looking at the smart screen info it looks like most of the ferrous range isn't used in digital or smart screen either.. might as well notch out everything but 12-15 on the ferrous scale?

I am sure its going to be a great and fast machine and I am getting one, but sure wish they would ask what not to change before making so called improvements.. most hunt in conductive anyway, but why mess up the rest that use ferrous... I eventually get around to digging most all targets at my sites, but when I find a new site I do bypass the less desirable targets without even looking at the screen. I have it down to where I can tell if a target is good by the audio alone.. Now I have to stop and check the screen each hit, or switch to conductive on each target?

Well maybe just maybe they will make these things, customer programmable and we can flash the firmware through the USB port..
I guess none of the field testers minded these changes..

Forgive me if I sound so negative before even getting one in the field, but this one bugs me.. they have 35 notches but only reports a few.... I suppose it was done this way on purpose to make it faster with less processing to do in the ferrous scale.. but then why bother even having a scale of 35? might as well been 1 to 5

I guess Minelab is going to have to custom build me a machine in the future

 

[christopher-ohio]

since I was thinking that maybe I had a wrong setting that was affecting the audio. The conductive sounds seem to be the same as any Explorer model to me. I'm just not sure what benefit the ferrous sounds are now since it is monotone?...I'm sure this may become apparent over time as someone in the know will explain it or one of you super detector electronics guys will figure it out Correct me if I'm wrong but this machine appears to be forcing you to use patterns instead of just ferrous sounds in all metal in the iron trash or with a little iron mask at -15 with an EX II or -30 with an SE. Since target ID has so many variables, many apparently never used patterns in fear of missing targets with an Explorer, now it seems we are forced to use discrim and patterns which can make it more complicated for K.I.S.S. people like me...please correct me if I'm wrong...just trying to understand all this...

 

[christopher-ohio]

"Selecting ferrous causes emitted tones to be generated according to the target's ferrous characteristics (the vertical axis of the Smartfind Window, or the first number in the Digital Screen"...so it would make sense that most coins with an FE of 12 would sound the same with airtesting, now what about in the ground?

 

[Dennis 2]

I Guess it works like the XLT,DFX. Meaning you use a program like coin or relic , disc. out or add what you want !?! it seems ( I don't Know) they got rid of target mask. If that's the case...they have a winner .

 

[bfodnes]

If they got rid of target masking they not only have a winner but a true killer machine.

From the recovery video that i have watched many times now i dont know if i can use the word recovery.

Its more like see through technology.

Gordon loads the preset relic program for the task at hand and it has Multitones and ferrous sounds pre selected.

Now, i cant " master reset " my brain cause i dont have a E-trac but the sound he gets on the us dime is not too far from air sound in ferrous.....

May be wrong but huuu, wish i could have investigated this on my own...

 

[christopher-ohio]

It will give a tone because of the orientation of the nails and coil but go 90 degrees and you hear nothing, I tried it. All machines are really this way, more or less, Fisher CZ's, F-75, Explorer, etc...that's always one of my first tests with a machine plus a DD does this better than a concentric coil too.

 

[bfodnes]

From what we have seen the iron will probably not be as big a problem as it was on my XS.

The main reason i used Iron mask - 12-14 or even only nail out was to get a better hit on any nonferrous.

The preset relic program seems to be a good starting point for us who searched wide open with the explorers.

Previous explorer users in US that searched wide open may change from ferrous to conduct sounds in relic pattern for coins.

Nothing forces you to use patterns, they will come in handy if you search for a lost item or new droppings to pay the road toll.

 

[bfodnes]

yes,, I know.. More or less.. All my other machines have been less though...

Much less...

Its an 11" coil on that machine,

 

[Elevatorguy]

I cannot understand why they expanded the ferrous range, only to have all coins register at a reading of FE 12. When I first heard of the expanded range, I thought it was great. More range would be more variation from target to target therefore allowing the user to discern differences between desirable and undesirable targets. Why is Minelab now giving the user LESS information with this machine than they get from an Explorer? Hopefully, there is a reason for this that will become apparent once users get some time in the field with this machine. By the way, where are all the field testers to answer some of these questions?

 

[Beachcomber]

they just start from a different location. The Conductive range was expanded to 50 I believe. The lower the ferrous number the less chance it will be iron. The higher the Ferrous number the more chance the target will be iron. The MLO Website has 4 great videos on the new E-Trac. A lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions but you need to keep in mind that this is NOT a new Explorer. It is a NEW Machine!!! Yes it appears that about 60% or so of the control functions are the same but at least 40% is different and we will need to learn the new machine. With it's much faster CPU it should be able to process the target info much more efficiently than the Explorer can which is why when watching the videos you can see that this machine can be swung a lot faster with no problems with target falsing or wrong ID's. We will all just need to sit back and wait until more people get them in thier hands and start using them. One thing is interesting for those that hunt in Ferrous Audio Mode like myself is that if coins now will give a low tone than gold will probably still give a mid tone and iron if set to be accepted will give a High Tone. Interestingly enough the new Whites TDI when in Disc Mode gives a Low Tone for coins and a High tone for Gold and other low conductive targets. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber

 

[Jim upstate NY]

isf the coins all read the same ferrousity, then its not truly reading ferrousity but a factory set reading... we know a nickel and a quarter are not close in ferousity.. yet they both read 12 on the meter... so its not giving you true ferrous readings, why do it at all? may as well just give a conductive number like any other id machine... its what made the explorer stand above the rest in ID..
All I am saying is why change a good thing...people that dont run ferrous audio or use the smart screen ferrous reading to determine what to dig might not care... But I gotta think that its a minority that wouldnt want all the "true" info they could be given..

Relic mode appears just to be a nail reject screen in ferrous audio, thats fine but give me all my tones!

 

[Beachcomber]

I think they are giving you all the ferrous tones just not in the way you are used to. Coins including nickels are low ferrous so they are giving a low tone. Iron being high ferrous which will read up in the high 20" will probably give you a high tone. It's just reversed of the Explorer. If you look at the chart of where things display on the Smartfind Screen of the E-Trac the Ferrous Audio giving a Low Tone makes sense. Remember on the Explorer those rusty nails that read in the upper left corner which give a high tone and forced us to use the Ferrous Audio Mode in the first place....well on the E-Trac that will now be on the bottom of the screen while the coins are still up near the top of the screen.. So you can either hunt in Ferrous Audio and get a High tone on Iron and Low Tone on non-ferrous items or you can hunt in Conductive Audio where Iron will give a low tone and coins will give a high tone. From the first reports from people hunting in the field they aren't having any falsing problems from rusty iron objects so you may be able to hunt in Conductive Audio Mode and not have the problems we had on the Explorers. Like you I have always hunted in Ferrous Audio Mode so it will be a learning experience for me as well if/when I get an E-Trac (my dealer already sold out so I will need to wait for the second batch). Hopefully the E-Trac faster more accurate target processing will eliminate the falsing from iron allowing us to go back to the Conductive Audio Mode. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber

 

[bfodnes]

High ferrous is still low tone on the E-trac in ferrous sounds.

Low ferrous is high tone on E-Trac in ferrous sounds.

The lesser the ferrous the higher the pitch, just as we are used to.

Look page 66 in manual for confirmation....

 

[christopher-ohio]

n/t

 

[Beachcomber]

the person running the detector in the video stated he was in Ferrous Audio Mode and the coins were giving a Low Tone instead of a High Tone. Also coin are giving a low 12-13 Ferrous number and Iron is giving a High Ferrous number. Guess I will just have to wait until my dealer gets some more in and I can go check it out for myself. Something seems out of whack here for sure!!!!

HH

Beachcomber

 

[Beachcomber]

in the Video had something set so that it would give a low tone on a coin.

HH

Beachcomber

 

[Jim upstate NY]

like I said I don't know, but if they have coins preset to read 12 ferrous, then they will all read that 12 ferrous tone... along with everything else that reads 12... not sure how they could do that, as that means anything with the same ferrousity of coins will read the same audiowise.. like Chris posted with aluminum.. I know that this is even true to some extent with the explorer with many targets coming in in that nickel ferrousity range and straight up the conductivity scale, like tabs screw caps and zinc vents.. but dimes and other silver always read more towards zero, even copper pennies read more right.. mow in ferrous at least you will get the same tone on all.. some sutes with lots of iron I like to just concentrate on silver and copper.. only way to do it now is in conductive.. not a problem if it indeed falses less on iron.. without having to disc out so much it causes masking.. I guess you would have needed to hunt in ferrous all the time to understand what I am saying.. I might be in the minority hunting in ferrous always.. even in trashy parks.. And minelab recommends conductive.. for the life of me I dont know why they would change this.. other than perhaps for the next model which makes that improvement on the etrac II, making me buy yet another machine.. maybe I will just get a F75 for faster response in iron and wait for enough people to complain about the ferrous level causing confusion for them to come out with an upgrade

 

[Jim upstate NY]

it will report what tone that ferrous reading is, anything that reads the same ferrous in digital will sound the same in ferrous.
looks like they may have upped it on higher end coins.. but in any case the etrac is not reading the true ferrousity of these targets. so it shouldn't be called ferrous mode any more, but more of a separate preset disc setting.. look at someones page which show digital readings on the explorer and compare to the Etrac.. that ferrous number should change on most coins, maybe not much on some, but thats the whole purpose to get as much info for ID as possible.. I am sure we can get used to anything after a while.. Just trying to figure out what the purpose of doing this is.. if they would just explain why they did it I would shut up, if it increases performance in some way or the other
check the link, then just think the majority of the coins will read 12 on the left instead of what they really are.. along with bits of aluminum?

http://groups.msn.com/MinelabExplorerXSusers/digitalchart1.msnw

 

[bfodnes]

I think maybe some fieldtesters and Desmond Dunne should drop in here.

There is no way you can preset a coin to read 12 ferrous and still keep the genious 2 axes disc system.
There is just too many variables even on coins.

Is it a clever way to recognize round objects ?????

The writing on minelab site says " in air " and the test i saw was in air too.

 

[Big Fang Coin Biter]

n/t