For either or both Explorer Se Pro and XS? The largest I have is the 10x12" sef and I love it. But of course I'm seeking more depth. In general this would be in relatively clean ground. So what large coil works for you for depth in fairly clean ground and with decent separation?
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What is the largest coil in your arsenal and why?
- Thread starter chipper97
- Start date
Chris(SoCenWI)
Well-known member
I haven't had it on my machine for awhile but have made many good finds with it.
It is slightly deeper than the stock coils, but that isn't the only advantage.
I bought the 15" at the same time I bought a 5" excelerator. I thought I would be using the 5" constantly in high trash areas, but ended up selling it. I tried quite hard to love the 5" but found it wasn't any better than by 8" coil in trash.
The WOT was a huge surprise. I still use it in high trash areas, just make sure you hugely overlap each sweep, There seems to be a hot spot in the center of the coil; sometimes you get a great signal, but move back or ahead a couple of inches and the signal disappears. That does make pinpointing harder.
The other advantage to a larger coil is that I find it does better in taller grass. As has been mentioned many times on this forum any air space between the coil and the ground is a huge depth killer with FBS detectors. Still not sure why this is, I suspect it has to due with the ground balancing, but the effect seems much worse for smaller coils. I do most of my detecting spring and fall when the ground is moist and the grass is short or nonexistent. But there are times where the only choice is to detect in taller grass or cover, and I find a bigger coil does better.
And... I think any time you hit a site with a different coil you will find stuff you missed with the other coils.
Chris
It is slightly deeper than the stock coils, but that isn't the only advantage.
I bought the 15" at the same time I bought a 5" excelerator. I thought I would be using the 5" constantly in high trash areas, but ended up selling it. I tried quite hard to love the 5" but found it wasn't any better than by 8" coil in trash.
The WOT was a huge surprise. I still use it in high trash areas, just make sure you hugely overlap each sweep, There seems to be a hot spot in the center of the coil; sometimes you get a great signal, but move back or ahead a couple of inches and the signal disappears. That does make pinpointing harder.
The other advantage to a larger coil is that I find it does better in taller grass. As has been mentioned many times on this forum any air space between the coil and the ground is a huge depth killer with FBS detectors. Still not sure why this is, I suspect it has to due with the ground balancing, but the effect seems much worse for smaller coils. I do most of my detecting spring and fall when the ground is moist and the grass is short or nonexistent. But there are times where the only choice is to detect in taller grass or cover, and I find a bigger coil does better.
And... I think any time you hit a site with a different coil you will find stuff you missed with the other coils.
Chris
The Magician
New member
The WOT. But now I'm not so sure it's the deepest, since going back to the stock and the pro. I need to keep it though because of ground coverage.
Interesting Magician. I suppose you originally purchased the WOT with the expectation of greater depth as well as increased coverage? Reflecting on Chris's post earlier I like the idea that a larger coil somewhat negates the air space dilemma with the FBS detectors as well as the idea that different coils all have unique traits that may allow them to detect targets at the same site that another coil missed. That is, it's a mix of depth capability, separation, sensitivity to ground minerals, iron etc. with which they all have variations of strengths and weakness's at all sizes and configurations. I hope that made sense?
PryorCreekJoe
Member
My "arsenal" includes 5, 8, 12 inch Sun Rays, 6X8 and 10X12 SEF, 11 inch pro, 15 inch WOT and 18 inch Excellerator but by far the deepest with the best separation is my 13 inch Detech Ultimate. It is a beast. I got the 18 on a trade and have only used it to find a spur that a landowner's kid lost in a 20 acre hay field. He was getting ready to bail it and the spur was sort of a family heirloom and he didn't want it to go through sickle mower or the bailer. I got great coverage with it but just about wore my shoulder out before finding it. (about 45 minutes and about 75 feet away from the line it was suppose to be on) Again the UT 13 is a beast of a coil hands down!!!
PCJ
PCJ
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
Chris(SoCenWI) said:
The Explorer doesn't like air space IF there is ground below that air space. Hold a WOT coil off the ground out in front of you pointing straight out at nothing but air, now wave a man's gold ring under it and be amazed how bloody far it can pick up that ring. I learned this by accident at a family outing, I was holding a WOT coil out like this and family members were waving metal objects past the coil and listening to it beep. This guy stepped up and started waving his wedding ring past the coil, he was like 30 inches from the coil, I started to say "it can't detect a ring that far away" and never got all the words out when I hear the ring beeping out the speaker, dang!
BigTony
Well-known member
Last winter I purchased both 10 x 12 sef and a used WOT 15 inch. I like both but for whatever reason I went back to the original small Exp coil. Maybe the weight made me switch. I haven't reallhy detected since late spring due to dryness, another reason to use the small coil.
Well now the ultimate has nosed ahead. The weight may be the deciding factor. Charles, I've always heard that Minelabs didn't air test well. But that sounded like all the air tests I've ever been familiar with, holding the coil perpendicular to the ground and running coins or what have you "under" them. So Minelabs in fact do airtest well? Now the ground below air space thing. That would include running a coil across tall grass that holds the coil up say 3 or 4 inches above the soil level? And if that is the case a larger coil would make up for some of that loss of depth?
Chris(SoCenWI)
Well-known member
Charles,
Yep,
Does better in an air test, like most detectors.
Have you had the same experience with coil size? I kind of quit detecting summers over grass, especially if the ground is dry. I've tried several times using my 6x8 over 2-3" high grass and get a supper faint signal way down on the depth meter and its a bloody zincoln two inches deep. If I had my coil right on the deck same signal would mean a 6-8 inch deep something. The WOT seems to do better when farther off the ground, but I haven't been particularly scientific in proving this.
I know you were doing beach detecting at one time; I've heard from some that you can get fantastic depths in neutral sand.
Got a theory on this?
Yep,
Does better in an air test, like most detectors.
Have you had the same experience with coil size? I kind of quit detecting summers over grass, especially if the ground is dry. I've tried several times using my 6x8 over 2-3" high grass and get a supper faint signal way down on the depth meter and its a bloody zincoln two inches deep. If I had my coil right on the deck same signal would mean a 6-8 inch deep something. The WOT seems to do better when farther off the ground, but I haven't been particularly scientific in proving this.
I know you were doing beach detecting at one time; I've heard from some that you can get fantastic depths in neutral sand.
Got a theory on this?
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
If the soil is mineralized which most soils are to a degree then the Explorer isn't going to do well if the grass forces you to swing the coil 3-4 inches above the soil. That's going to chop your depth significantly. Dry soil would only make this worse as you lose some depth in dry soil. The classic example of this is say a silver dime at 7-8 inches, you get a solid signal on it. Dug a 6 inch plug and poof the signal vanishes, the Explorer can no longer detect it. Even though when you go in with an X1 probe is screaming silver. Opening up that air space, Explorers just hate it. I can't say for sure why, is it the ground balance circuit I don't know. It could be some other process within the Explorer. But clearly something gets discombobulated when the Explorer is faced with an air/ground sandwich. A WOT coil would get more depth than the stock coil, just by way of being a larger coil. So in a given situation say grass is forcing you 3 inches from the soil a WOT would get a bit more depth than the stock coil.
Coil Confusion - There seems to be as much confusion about coils as there is about some Explorer settings. Explorer coils are very simple in some aspects, and yet there is some really spooky voodoo aspects to coil construction. Lets start with the simple aspects, Explorer coils consist of magnet wire, epoxy resin, electro-static shielding paint, a coil cable, and a plastic shell. That's it there are no chips or electronic boards or electronic magic inside of Explorer coils.
Coil Geometry - I feel there is ample confusion on this topic, this should eliminate most of it plus the placebo effect some are experiencing thinking the flavor of the week aftermarket coil is somehow producing better than the stock 11 SE Pro coil. Coil length = coverage per swing, coil width = depth. So an 11x14 coil will give you more coverage per swing vs an 11 inch round coil but not necessarily more depth, in fact it may give you less depth depending on construction.
Coil Construction Voodoo - Explorer coils have to be built to very exacting specifications, its incredibly touchy. There is a narrow range of impedance you have to hit while at the same time hitting a narrow range of inductance, they are in a tug of war with each other. To hit a given inductance mark say on the TX winding you need a certain number of winds, often 1 wind too many or too few and you miss the mark. But you have to pay attention to impedance, too thin or thick a wire will throw that off given the number of winds and size of the coil. When I was building coils I had hell at least 15 difference gauges of TX and RX magnet wire. So its quite a touchy area of design, plus there are other factors like Q to take into account. Even the type of magnet wire insulation can be a factor as can how tightly or loosely you wind the TX/RX windings, its voodoo. The shielding paint has to have just the right amount of conductance, not too little or too much. The Explorer can readily detect many types of shielding paints, carbon black seems to be a good choice. Now lets talk Litz magnet wire, this is a 'stranded' magnet wire that is a LOT more expensive than your average single strand magnet wire. Minelab uses Litz wire for the TX winding, how about aftermarket coils? Every aftermarket coil I have dissected uses plane old single conductor magnet wire. Lastly lets consider the overlap of the TX and RX windings, this has to be very exact AND not move as the epoxy sets up. I have measured quite a few Minelab coils to establish an acceptable range and the Minelab coils were all within a very narrow range indeed. On the other hand I have measured aftermarket coils that were well outside those ranges.
So there's some coil information.
Coil Confusion - There seems to be as much confusion about coils as there is about some Explorer settings. Explorer coils are very simple in some aspects, and yet there is some really spooky voodoo aspects to coil construction. Lets start with the simple aspects, Explorer coils consist of magnet wire, epoxy resin, electro-static shielding paint, a coil cable, and a plastic shell. That's it there are no chips or electronic boards or electronic magic inside of Explorer coils.
Coil Geometry - I feel there is ample confusion on this topic, this should eliminate most of it plus the placebo effect some are experiencing thinking the flavor of the week aftermarket coil is somehow producing better than the stock 11 SE Pro coil. Coil length = coverage per swing, coil width = depth. So an 11x14 coil will give you more coverage per swing vs an 11 inch round coil but not necessarily more depth, in fact it may give you less depth depending on construction.
Coil Construction Voodoo - Explorer coils have to be built to very exacting specifications, its incredibly touchy. There is a narrow range of impedance you have to hit while at the same time hitting a narrow range of inductance, they are in a tug of war with each other. To hit a given inductance mark say on the TX winding you need a certain number of winds, often 1 wind too many or too few and you miss the mark. But you have to pay attention to impedance, too thin or thick a wire will throw that off given the number of winds and size of the coil. When I was building coils I had hell at least 15 difference gauges of TX and RX magnet wire. So its quite a touchy area of design, plus there are other factors like Q to take into account. Even the type of magnet wire insulation can be a factor as can how tightly or loosely you wind the TX/RX windings, its voodoo. The shielding paint has to have just the right amount of conductance, not too little or too much. The Explorer can readily detect many types of shielding paints, carbon black seems to be a good choice. Now lets talk Litz magnet wire, this is a 'stranded' magnet wire that is a LOT more expensive than your average single strand magnet wire. Minelab uses Litz wire for the TX winding, how about aftermarket coils? Every aftermarket coil I have dissected uses plane old single conductor magnet wire. Lastly lets consider the overlap of the TX and RX windings, this has to be very exact AND not move as the epoxy sets up. I have measured quite a few Minelab coils to establish an acceptable range and the Minelab coils were all within a very narrow range indeed. On the other hand I have measured aftermarket coils that were well outside those ranges.
So there's some coil information.
Charles, so I gather from your post that you feel the coils that work best in general with Minelab's are Minelab coils? Since you're way over my head with the electronics stuff I'll use your term and say they have the best "voodoo". So a dumb question I guess; Do you use any aftermarket coils with your Minelabs? I have read that Coiltech makes coils for Minelab detectors. Would that put say, the Ultimate coil on the good voodoo list? Thanks for the information.
Charles (Upstate NY)
Well-known member
Chris yes that would be accurate I'm a Minelab coil fan, the single exception being the WOT coil it has its own voodoo. My favorite coils are currently...
Minelab SE Pro coil - its awesome! A bit larger than the old Explorer factory coils so you cover more ground per sweep, you have to look at the internal windings the Explorer and Explorer II coil windings inside the shell are not as large as you might think. The SE Pro coil also has more of an even overlap of the windings front to rear where the older Explorer coils are narrow at the front. The SE Pro coil is lighter, impervious to salt water, and quite thin. Its also surprisingly good on small jewelry. Keep in mind for gold and silver chains its often the clasp you detect not the chain. I have seen gold and silver chains that were buried on a beach for a while and the links crusted together a bit that were detectable, but after being dug and loosened up were no longer detectable even rubbing them right on the coil.
Minelab 8 Inch Coil - This coil is bad ass in a rusty nail heap. Its really more like a 7 inch coil size wise. And because it has more turns on the windings its possible it produces a denser magnetic field than larger coils with more field lines to intersect the target. Obviously it doesn't have the depth of the SE Pro coil so I use it only for special situations.
WOT Coil - I'm probably the original evangelist for the WOT coil, everybody told me it couldn't be used in your average park and I proved them wrong using it for 2 straight years trash be damned. It will go deeper than the SE Pro 11 inch coil and has a canny knack for sniffing out coins on edge. Its one big drawback, its heavy and will ware out your arm. I can go 4-5 hours with the SE Pro Coil but I'm done after 90 minutes winging the WOT.
Sunray X1 Probe - I will not hunt in the dirt without this probe, period. Its not needed at all for beach hunting though.
Minelab SE Pro coil - its awesome! A bit larger than the old Explorer factory coils so you cover more ground per sweep, you have to look at the internal windings the Explorer and Explorer II coil windings inside the shell are not as large as you might think. The SE Pro coil also has more of an even overlap of the windings front to rear where the older Explorer coils are narrow at the front. The SE Pro coil is lighter, impervious to salt water, and quite thin. Its also surprisingly good on small jewelry. Keep in mind for gold and silver chains its often the clasp you detect not the chain. I have seen gold and silver chains that were buried on a beach for a while and the links crusted together a bit that were detectable, but after being dug and loosened up were no longer detectable even rubbing them right on the coil.
Minelab 8 Inch Coil - This coil is bad ass in a rusty nail heap. Its really more like a 7 inch coil size wise. And because it has more turns on the windings its possible it produces a denser magnetic field than larger coils with more field lines to intersect the target. Obviously it doesn't have the depth of the SE Pro coil so I use it only for special situations.
WOT Coil - I'm probably the original evangelist for the WOT coil, everybody told me it couldn't be used in your average park and I proved them wrong using it for 2 straight years trash be damned. It will go deeper than the SE Pro 11 inch coil and has a canny knack for sniffing out coins on edge. Its one big drawback, its heavy and will ware out your arm. I can go 4-5 hours with the SE Pro Coil but I'm done after 90 minutes winging the WOT.
Sunray X1 Probe - I will not hunt in the dirt without this probe, period. Its not needed at all for beach hunting though.
Thanks Charles. As you know there've been lots of pro 'SEF' posts for years from various Explorer/Etrac users. I don't know how much coil construction knowledge any of these guys have but apparently on the ground results seem to confirm in their eyes a superior outcome. With your knowledge of coil manufacture your opinion would seem to counter that from a coil construction perspective as well as on the ground performance as I expect you have tried the various aftermarket coils to see for yourself. I have the 10 x 12" sef and the 6 x 8" sef and have been happy with the results. To be honest I was pretty happy with the Pro Coil too. I haven't used it in a while but I think I'll give it a spin and see if I haven't fallen prey to "the placebo effect".
Socal Hopeless
New member
ran my detech 13" coil yesterday for the first time, pulled some deep oldies, worked great.
HaroldILL.
Active member
The Sunray X-12 Coil. It is best coil I own at hitting deep silver on edge. It is also as lite as the pro coil for me anyways and easy to swing. I found a seated dime with it on the Etrac the first of the year almost completely on edge at a good 10'' easy!
The Magician
New member
chipper97 said:
Another explorer user uses the WOT exclusively and does very well, that's why I bought it. I like it, but I think the stock or the pro coils go just as deep unless your detecting trash can sized targets. Still not sure though, hard to gauge depth even with tests. The WOT definately misses the small coins though, at least I have! I have found so much more small silver since switching back.