basstrackerman
Well-known member
Well we all know im not only one bothered lol. Old machines new stickers, now old machines new coils. Cool 
.
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Whites Spring Special Detech Ultimate13" Coil
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basstrackerman said:Well we all know im not only one bothered lol. Old machines new stickers, now old machines new coils. Cool
It seems there are two isssues being discussed. One is the fact Whites is recommending an aftermarket coil instead of one of their own designed coils and the other is the old machine new stickers issue.
On the first issue I have no problem if Whites offers aftermarket coils on their machines as long as the coils are good coils. Detech makes some nice coils so no issue here as far as I am concerned.
On the second issue I tend to agree it would be nice to see new or upgraded features wise machines from Whites. The MXT to MXT-PRO was a good move by Whites. Whites took a good machine and added features and made it a better machine in my opinion. The MXT-PRO to MXT ALL-PRO was a why bother head scratcher.
Regards
Steve Howard
New member
Did not miss the point.
On the 13" De-Tech subject, "spoiler alert" everything that is said on forums is not the manufacturer's opinions nor the manufactures telling anyone anything. Detector users opinions most everyone enjoys and learns from, most often by differing. If some of the many who help out on forums have opinions for, or against, aftermarket search coils, that is their opinion. In fact practically everything on every forum is an opinion, some with more fact to them than others. One should know that before participating. If one has trouble with opinions, the forums are not the place to avoid them.
The fact is White's has encouraged, freely provided technical information for, and supported, aftermarket search coil manufactures for decades, since the 1970's. Some White's trained in house and put in business. Why discourage it? It is good for the hobby, it is good for the business.
The typical AVID metal detector user is intelligent thus knows that advertising is not intended for them. They are the quire, no smart person preaches to the quire, they heard it already. They have their opinions and preferences and can easily tell the difference between a new design and updated cosmetics. Advertising is for new perspective users alone...period. Updated cosmetics are for new perspective users alone, they likely have seen the older cosmetic, advertising simply wants to get them excited enough to buy their first detector. If when looking at a typical AVID users personal detectors, does anyone really think we care much, if at all, about cosmetics? Does anyone really think gloss black is widely choosen for use in the mud/dirt? Or is it the first time buyer (show room shine) it is choosen for? Think about it.
One doesn't purposely advertise cars to race car drivers. Race car drivers pay no attention to car advertising, it is not intended for them. Same with AVID detector users.
On the 13" De-Tech subject, "spoiler alert" everything that is said on forums is not the manufacturer's opinions nor the manufactures telling anyone anything. Detector users opinions most everyone enjoys and learns from, most often by differing. If some of the many who help out on forums have opinions for, or against, aftermarket search coils, that is their opinion. In fact practically everything on every forum is an opinion, some with more fact to them than others. One should know that before participating. If one has trouble with opinions, the forums are not the place to avoid them.
The fact is White's has encouraged, freely provided technical information for, and supported, aftermarket search coil manufactures for decades, since the 1970's. Some White's trained in house and put in business. Why discourage it? It is good for the hobby, it is good for the business.
The typical AVID metal detector user is intelligent thus knows that advertising is not intended for them. They are the quire, no smart person preaches to the quire, they heard it already. They have their opinions and preferences and can easily tell the difference between a new design and updated cosmetics. Advertising is for new perspective users alone...period. Updated cosmetics are for new perspective users alone, they likely have seen the older cosmetic, advertising simply wants to get them excited enough to buy their first detector. If when looking at a typical AVID users personal detectors, does anyone really think we care much, if at all, about cosmetics? Does anyone really think gloss black is widely choosen for use in the mud/dirt? Or is it the first time buyer (show room shine) it is choosen for? Think about it.
One doesn't purposely advertise cars to race car drivers. Race car drivers pay no attention to car advertising, it is not intended for them. Same with AVID detector users.
OregonGregg
Well-known member
And that is why for the last several years, "AVID" detecting people have had to answer this same question over and over and over " Whats the difference between the MXT Pro and MXT All Pro ? " and try to explain that the only difference is a sticker......and of course then they ask why just a sticker ?? Now I can at least give them an answer, It is a cosmetic update to an older existing machine in order to get you excited and entice you to buy the product.
As far as the "AVID intelligent" people, Do you have something for them ? ie: will a new machine be coming out from White's in 2015 ( is a simple yes or no question and does not require a bunch of analogies to answer) or is a 13" Detech coil the big thing for 2015 ?
So to all the folks and myself included, who asked the question " Whats the difference between the Pro and All Pro" I guess in a polite way we got called dumb. Quote from Steve : The typical AVID metal detector user is intelligent thus knows that advertising is not intended for them"
I will however in the future avoid advertising from White's, after all it is what "intelligent" people apparently do.
By the way Steve, I'm not "preaching at the quire" although sometimes it might sound like I am "preaching at the choir"
As far as the "AVID intelligent" people, Do you have something for them ? ie: will a new machine be coming out from White's in 2015 ( is a simple yes or no question and does not require a bunch of analogies to answer) or is a 13" Detech coil the big thing for 2015 ?
So to all the folks and myself included, who asked the question " Whats the difference between the Pro and All Pro" I guess in a polite way we got called dumb. Quote from Steve : The typical AVID metal detector user is intelligent thus knows that advertising is not intended for them"
I will however in the future avoid advertising from White's, after all it is what "intelligent" people apparently do.
By the way Steve, I'm not "preaching at the quire" although sometimes it might sound like I am "preaching at the choir"
basstrackerman
Well-known member
So your saying steve.. We old timers dont need new detectors? Whites decided to be in the sticker selling business? To fool the new detectorists. Cool lol thinking they bought a new year model detector when in reality they get a very old one with a neat new sticker...oh and a aftermarket coil..at least the coil is nice.. Well the company that keeps taking your engineers is and has come out with alot of new detectors.. Not stickers to fool the new detectorists, you know the ones your advertising too??? Actual new detectors. Wow ..
dirtmaster
New member
I have sat by and have been following this post and I have to chime in with my opinion. All of us Whites users know without a doubt the quality and superb performance of the Whites line of detectors. Whether it be the MX5 M6 MXT VX3 V3i etc they are all outstanding detectors that many many people are very happy with and these detectors will outperform many of the newer models the other companies are producing. I dont really understand all the bashing of a company that has been so loyal to its customers and makes the finest detectors on the market. It is hard to improve on perfection. The V3i is a powerhouse as well as the MXT detectors. I myself own a M6 and I will put it up against any newer model out there. Yes there are detectors out there that is waterproof and has a lot of bells and whistles that makes the detectors appealing but when you cut to the chase they still work the same way. The MX5 is also an awesome detector if you like bells and whistles and is very very fun to use. My wife uses one and she doesnt even look at other detectors because it fits her so well and she enjoys it. I am sure Whites is not done designing a new detector but rest assured when it comes out it will be the standard of the industry. Will I buy a new model from Whites? Of course I will but the MX5 and M6 will stay a part of my arsenal because they are very good. All of you that are Whites users knows Whites and should have faith that Whites still puts out the best built and most reliable and powerful detectors on the market.
pescadore
Well-known member
dirtmaster said:
I get amused at all the hype that preceeds all of the new detectors on the block. At one time in my metal detecting life, I would have fallen for all the hype and wasted a lot of money trying to find something deeper and better. Through the years, I have learned that I can rely on my Whites machines and agree with you that they are some of the best built, most reliable, and powerful detectors on the market. I personally don't see what the big deal is about Whites offering the Ultimate coil for their machines. I have been using the SEF coils for a while now and they generally out perform my Whites coils, If Whites can get a cost effective deal with Detech to put their coils on the Whites machines then I am glad for it. IMHO they are a great combination.
Steve Howard
New member
Let me try once more.
What I'm saying is if a person is knowledgeable and experienced about a subject... advertising about that subject has (and should have) "0" impact on them. A mountain of pretty photos, fancy buzz words, exciting bold talk, nun of it is going to get an AVID user to do anything different than they would without it. They are in the position they could help write the advertising. Everyone knows what the job of advertising is and what it does and that it will always be a part of everything. It is not widely liked, but necessary to make the world go around. The minute an ad person fails to get results, they are replaced by someone who does. True of every successful company on the planet.
As far as advertising and informing AVID users of new products and innovations, for AVID users word of mouth travels around the world faster than the speed of light, no worries, no special efforts required.
Minor changes to a product like changing the standard equipment search coil on the MXT (changing MXT Pro to MXT ALL Pro) or changing a price, can have devastating results and consequences within a large Distribution chain. So you change the standard equipment search coil on the MXT Pro, what do you tell your Distributors & Dealers about the thousands of older versions in their Distribution Pipeline? Tough luck, all your inventory is dead in the water? You can not take them back for re-work, logistics alone makes it impossible. A company can not destroy their Distribution pipeline and expect to remain successful. So what do you do when you need or want to make a change? You have to change (if only slightly) the name if you want to significantly change the specifications. It literally solves a million problems.
Most the issues and misunderstandings I'm seeing here are due to the fact end users are only exposed to less than 10% of what is going on. The end user doesn't see the Industry part of the Industry and when they do they typically do not like it cause it's Big Business. No one likes Big Business unless it is personally making them money.
What I'm saying is if a person is knowledgeable and experienced about a subject... advertising about that subject has (and should have) "0" impact on them. A mountain of pretty photos, fancy buzz words, exciting bold talk, nun of it is going to get an AVID user to do anything different than they would without it. They are in the position they could help write the advertising. Everyone knows what the job of advertising is and what it does and that it will always be a part of everything. It is not widely liked, but necessary to make the world go around. The minute an ad person fails to get results, they are replaced by someone who does. True of every successful company on the planet.
As far as advertising and informing AVID users of new products and innovations, for AVID users word of mouth travels around the world faster than the speed of light, no worries, no special efforts required.
Minor changes to a product like changing the standard equipment search coil on the MXT (changing MXT Pro to MXT ALL Pro) or changing a price, can have devastating results and consequences within a large Distribution chain. So you change the standard equipment search coil on the MXT Pro, what do you tell your Distributors & Dealers about the thousands of older versions in their Distribution Pipeline? Tough luck, all your inventory is dead in the water? You can not take them back for re-work, logistics alone makes it impossible. A company can not destroy their Distribution pipeline and expect to remain successful. So what do you do when you need or want to make a change? You have to change (if only slightly) the name if you want to significantly change the specifications. It literally solves a million problems.
Most the issues and misunderstandings I'm seeing here are due to the fact end users are only exposed to less than 10% of what is going on. The end user doesn't see the Industry part of the Industry and when they do they typically do not like it cause it's Big Business. No one likes Big Business unless it is personally making them money.
Steve Howard
New member
Is anyone here old enough of a detectorist to remember...
About 30 years ago (when Fisher Detectors was still owned by Fisher) the end user advertising perspective was a mess. Electronic dowsing rods were selling well for huge $ (if one can dowse they do not need a battery). Fisher Detectors made a bold move, they purchased an expensive full page back cover add with a major metal detector magazines. Only purpose, to educate end users. They put together an obviously fake, big, ugly, metal detector for this ad. I recall it having a ridiculous number of knobs and meters. The add said ridiculous things, something like "detects an individual coin at 100 feet deep and tells you it's condition, date, who lost it and when". At the bottom of this add it implied in big bold type; If one believes one word of this add they should seek the advice of an adult regarding all their significant purchases. At the time it was widely applauded. However, it did backfire to some degree (the power of advertising). Every metal detector manufacture on the planet received thousands of telephone calls from people wanting to purchase that obviously and ridiculously fake metal detector. Years later, people still occasionally called wanting to buy it.
About 30 years ago (when Fisher Detectors was still owned by Fisher) the end user advertising perspective was a mess. Electronic dowsing rods were selling well for huge $ (if one can dowse they do not need a battery). Fisher Detectors made a bold move, they purchased an expensive full page back cover add with a major metal detector magazines. Only purpose, to educate end users. They put together an obviously fake, big, ugly, metal detector for this ad. I recall it having a ridiculous number of knobs and meters. The add said ridiculous things, something like "detects an individual coin at 100 feet deep and tells you it's condition, date, who lost it and when". At the bottom of this add it implied in big bold type; If one believes one word of this add they should seek the advice of an adult regarding all their significant purchases. At the time it was widely applauded. However, it did backfire to some degree (the power of advertising). Every metal detector manufacture on the planet received thousands of telephone calls from people wanting to purchase that obviously and ridiculously fake metal detector. Years later, people still occasionally called wanting to buy it.
dirtmaster
New member
This my friends is just the beginning I hope!!!. The new Treasuremaster!!