Why don't all water machines have rods and coils that flow through the water with ease? I mean it's a lot of work as you all know. Efficient Hydrodynamics for water machines coils and rods would go a long way in swing speed and fatigue. Plus you could cover a lot more area in a shorter amount of time.
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Why don't the manufacturers make this.......................:shrug:
- Thread starter khouse
- Start date
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
Sure would be nice if they were water hunters then they may understand.
Calm waters big coils I don't mind but it's the ruff water, so I am going out with the little Sunray 5.5 and test. Looks like we have to make are own changes and make the best of it.
My thinking is I can swing the little guy twice as fast as I could the 10 so that will make up for the small size? As far as depth, I can't dig deeper then 8 inch's without the walls caving in so I don't see a loss there..Ruff waters small coil, should be a dead center dig....could be a good time saver and a higher recover rate....
.
Calm waters big coils I don't mind but it's the ruff water, so I am going out with the little Sunray 5.5 and test. Looks like we have to make are own changes and make the best of it.
My thinking is I can swing the little guy twice as fast as I could the 10 so that will make up for the small size? As far as depth, I can't dig deeper then 8 inch's without the walls caving in so I don't see a loss there..Ruff waters small coil, should be a dead center dig....could be a good time saver and a higher recover rate....
.
I have often thought about this as well..
Was pretty close to making a rod out of ash, and imbedding some glass marbles down at the bottom to give it the right weight,balance...a mfg could make a coil cover thats hydrodynamic too, you know, tapers to a sharp edge...I sort of feather my coil when swinging it through the water, you know. raise the leading edge ever so slightly...especially after a guy starts to get tired.
Anybody that pushes things through water alot, especially poling a boat or paddling a canoe knows the different water resistance a thin blade as opposed to a round shaft has...maybe a guy only needs the feathered shaft to create such low drag that he can hunt longer and harder? I think most hardcores just get used to it...still, I wonder if anybodys tried this that Kenny brought up?
Mud
Was pretty close to making a rod out of ash, and imbedding some glass marbles down at the bottom to give it the right weight,balance...a mfg could make a coil cover thats hydrodynamic too, you know, tapers to a sharp edge...I sort of feather my coil when swinging it through the water, you know. raise the leading edge ever so slightly...especially after a guy starts to get tired.
Anybody that pushes things through water alot, especially poling a boat or paddling a canoe knows the different water resistance a thin blade as opposed to a round shaft has...maybe a guy only needs the feathered shaft to create such low drag that he can hunt longer and harder? I think most hardcores just get used to it...still, I wonder if anybodys tried this that Kenny brought up?
Mud
Not incorporating hydrodynamics on water machines is the same as sticking floating coils on then. OH wait. They do that too!!! This is why I don't use one brand of machine in the water. They used to put 950 coils on their machine that floated like a fishing bobber. Now they put a coil on it that is touted as "near neutral buoyancy". Believe me it still floats. I don't think we should stick a "sock of rocks" on our shafts to force our coils down either. Plus this makes even more drag. Not to mention how professional it looks!! All this wasted effort just to swing and keep a coil on the bottom just wears a hunter out. Even the aftermarket companies don't use efficient Hydrodynamics. These engineers need to strap a machine on their arms and hunt for 8 hours strait in the water. This may get then thinking? Maybe not?
You see this type of engineering all the time on you cars, mowers and other equipment. They place brackets in front of your oil filters. They put nuts on bolts you can't get a wrench on. They put fuel pumps in the gas tanks. They put fuel filters under the cars. They put 2 or 3 fuse boxes on your car. You get one in the glove box. One by your kick panel and then one under the hood! What happened to just using one?!!!! I know we could go on and on.
You see this type of engineering all the time on you cars, mowers and other equipment. They place brackets in front of your oil filters. They put nuts on bolts you can't get a wrench on. They put fuel pumps in the gas tanks. They put fuel filters under the cars. They put 2 or 3 fuse boxes on your car. You get one in the glove box. One by your kick panel and then one under the hood! What happened to just using one?!!!! I know we could go on and on.
Well, thinking some more about this as I was out hunting this am...
A fellow could take a 5' piece of let say 3/4" PVC, heat it up good with a heat gun or even over the stove, and flatten it out in about 2 minutes ( a youtube site called "The Backyard Bowyer" makes bows out of PVC...they are very cool and shoot amazingly well!) Anyway, fill the lower portion with sand if it floats...drill a hole in it, and hook it up to a spare coil and give it a try? Doesnt even have to be a live coil, just anything to realistically duplicate hunting..
.
If a guy took along his main rig, and just tried this concept side by side, He'd know in a hurry if it was feasible...PVC may lack some lateral stiffness, thats where a really cool custom rod made out of laminated wood, or carbon fibre would be something that would be marketable, even if it was just the lower rod.....you are right of course, swinging coil in the water wears a guy out quick if he's trying to go any faster than the dynamic drag allows...you have a valid idea here Kenny...anything that keeps us out of the doctors office and gets us more coil time on bottom has got to help!
Mud.
A fellow could take a 5' piece of let say 3/4" PVC, heat it up good with a heat gun or even over the stove, and flatten it out in about 2 minutes ( a youtube site called "The Backyard Bowyer" makes bows out of PVC...they are very cool and shoot amazingly well!) Anyway, fill the lower portion with sand if it floats...drill a hole in it, and hook it up to a spare coil and give it a try? Doesnt even have to be a live coil, just anything to realistically duplicate hunting..
.If a guy took along his main rig, and just tried this concept side by side, He'd know in a hurry if it was feasible...PVC may lack some lateral stiffness, thats where a really cool custom rod made out of laminated wood, or carbon fibre would be something that would be marketable, even if it was just the lower rod.....you are right of course, swinging coil in the water wears a guy out quick if he's trying to go any faster than the dynamic drag allows...you have a valid idea here Kenny...anything that keeps us out of the doctors office and gets us more coil time on bottom has got to help!
Mud.
Overvoltage
New member
Actually, if you look at the CTX3030 shaft you will notice that it is square, not teardrop or round. If you think about it, a water hunter not only has side to side motion through the water but also foreword motion as well. I believe Minelab had this in mind when they developed the CTX3030. Remember also that water exerts a lot of counter force when trying to push through it so both the X and Y axis must be rigid enough to withstand the force in both directions or the shaft will buckle.
Even a solid piece of carbon like a 3/8 x 1-1/4 inch tapered on the sides would work. Then maybe making snap on ring for around the coil that's tapered? For a manufacturer it would be easy. I've heard about this PVC bow your talking about on youtube. I'm going to check it out. Also if the coils were made like a space ship where they are solid and tapered to the edge. Kind of like a thin Discus. All the holes in the coils is just another place for drag. This also would keep it from digging in the sand and would just skip over it. Most water machines are not cheap. Why not incorporate something usable to help with fatigue?
A square rod will have more drag than a round one. The trailing edge is just as imprtant and the front edge. You don't want any water separation for less drag. I build and race Pinewood Derby cars. Drag is a huge factor in winning when there is only an inch defference in the top 20 cars.
Hey, take it easy on us engineers fellas, we're good folk too! Valid points all. The first thing a good engineer should do when given the task of designing a shaft is to go into the field and see how the machines are used under all conditions. This is obviously not done so we the consumer have to get their attention ($$$$$) by buying the machines that are built with forethought.
As for me, I've learned that paddling a kayak and underwater coil swinging have a lot in common. My first year in the kayak, I was all arms. After pooping myself out one day I went on line and Googled "How to paddle a kayak". The advice is to use your legs and hips for efficient paddling. The same goes for swinging a coil under water. Keep your arm locked in one position and do the swinging by rotating your hips. You can go all day with that technique.
HH!
As for me, I've learned that paddling a kayak and underwater coil swinging have a lot in common. My first year in the kayak, I was all arms. After pooping myself out one day I went on line and Googled "How to paddle a kayak". The advice is to use your legs and hips for efficient paddling. The same goes for swinging a coil under water. Keep your arm locked in one position and do the swinging by rotating your hips. You can go all day with that technique.
HH!
I had to change mine out 2 times in the last 3 years! I guess they figured they last forever? 
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
A Yak in a lake or pond is different then a yak in the ocean surf. I can go a long day in the Bay, but put me in the ruff ocean surf with the same 10 inch coil after one hour my arm feels like she just got twisted like a rubber band. I tried the Sunray 5 today and seems like a good start, less resistance profile, it's just that thinking bigger is better that keeps haunting me that I'm missing something.....
Booty Hunter
Member
Just had to chime in here on the fuel pump. I solved that problem. Just cut a hole/flap in the bottom of your floorboard. Then reseal with caulk. Easy to get back at it when needed. Same goes for those engine to tranny bolts.
I just started using a 5x10 in the water. Easy on the arm but it does seem difficult to cover every sq inch.
I just started using a 5x10 in the water. Easy on the arm but it does seem difficult to cover every sq inch.
I had the fortune of working in my stepdad's garage in my teens so am onboard with you guys about things like fuel pumps in gas tanks. Back in those days, you could practically climb under the hood to work on the engine there was so much room. Sorry about your bad luck with those fuel pumps Khouse. Pity the poor fool who has to take it to the dealer!