wot

[kered]

Your friend is correct as i find the 11" pro coil finds smaller items as its very very sensitive to the point its slightly too much, lead pellets and very small bits of aluminim canslaw the size of half a small fingernail and smaller will have you going crazy trying to find them, the 12x15 will still pick up small earing backings at respectable depths for thier size, it seems to thrive on the harder more solid objects and wishywashy on softer trash like very small foil.

 

[synthnut]

Kered,
Thanks for the info ....I found a childs gold post earing with a diamond in it that had no backing that was in wet sand and about 7 or so inches down with the Pro Coil ....It hit HARD !!.......LOUD AND CLEAR !!!.......I was expacting a lot more to come out of the hole and it kept falling thru the soccp it was so small .....I finally got it though ...Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Critter,
To sum it up , would it be safe to say that the 12 x 15 SEF is deeper and a better Beach coil ? ......Would it also be safe to say that the 10 x 12 is a deeper land coil ? ..........If you hunted both land and beach 50/50 and it was really more important to have a coil that would go deeper on land , which coil would you go wtih ? .........I'm saying deeper on land, because the beaches that I hunt , I don't really have to go down that deep unless I go into the water, and I'm not sure how soon that is going to happen .....The stock coils on both my E Trac and my Sovereign are adequate , but I want more than "adequate " ...Thanks, Jim

If I was more of a beach hunter than land hunter I would have kept the 15x12. It went much deeper than the stock 10" coil in the sand, the coverage was awesome, and I liked all other aspects of this coil better (audio, separation, pinpointing, stability at higher sensitivity settings, etc). However, I am not primarily a beach hunter. My first love is old coins, and probably my second first love is ring hunting on land....then it's the beach for rings. All in that order.

So, based on the fact that the 15x12 would not go as deep on land for me, with about 9" max on a coin seeming to be the norm in my higher mineral land sites, I decided to get rid of it in trade for a 12x10. Had I had the money right now I wouldn't have traded that coil. It would have been just for my beach hunts or perhaps covering very large areas such as crop fields. But, on land the stock 10" has got me coins deeper in my soil than any other machine or coil I've ever used. My theory is that the high mineral content of land sites is overwhelming the target and washing it out in the ground matrix with the 15x12. Note that I'm not saying it wouldn't run at higher sensitivity settings while being stable compared to the stock coil, but as I've pounded away over and over higher sensitivity DOES NOT mean more depth in my soil.

Kered, if the volume thing was an issue then why would the 15x12 be getting me coins twice as deep in the sand than on land? If anything with the volume down I can hear it less well at the beach due to wave action than I can on land. Besides, I've tried full blast volume on land at known deep coin spots with the 15x12 to insure that wasn't an issue. And, as I've always said, each and every one of the deep targets I've found via full volume while hunting I could easily hear when I turned the volume all the way down to compare. There is no difference in depth ability IMO with at least these headphones and my hearing. So long as the target can even slightly change the threshold I can hear it without issue, no problem at all.

My main belief/working theory at this time is the ground matrix of my soil. A bigger coil WILL pass the point of deminishing returns at some point, otherwise we'd all be hunting with coils 5 foot in diameter. The question of where that point of no return is is largely going to be determined by the kind of soil you have in your area. I know the limits for me where I live. That's the whole point of trading for the 12x10. Since I'm primarily a land hunter I want to see if I can maximize my depth in my high mineral sites. I believe the 12x10 may even be seeing less ground than the stock coil in terms of left/right wasted bleed off into space due to a sloppy detection field with more "stray" unneeded signal in that perspective on the stock coil. In that sense I'm hoping the 12x10 will see deeper, being less washed in ground matrix, and thus be less prone to degrading target quality at depth. I'd further add that if my theory is right then the S-12 will get less depth than the 12x10 in my soil, and perhaps even less depth than the stock 10" coil. The S-12 is a conventional DD design, and so it doesn't have the width of the detection field squeezed like these SEFs do.

That's my whole point and working theory. Only comparison and time in the field will prove it one way or the other. If anything, even if this coil only goes as deep as the stock coil I'll still be happy. The stock coil is one deep puppy. But with the 12x10 I'll also have the other benefits of an SEF- better separation, better pinpoint, higher stability at higher sensitivity settings, improved audio response, better ability to hit coins on edge or in trash, more coverage (LOVE IT just like the 15x12 over the stock 10" coil...feels too small now), etc.

 

[erikk]

1 excal is hard wired, one has the waterproof connector & the excal 2 is stock 4 now I might give the 12 x 15 a shot if I hear that the coil will radiate outside the actual coil. I can't tell you the rings that I have dug because I got a slight tone at the very end of the sweep just outside the actual coil. When I reach the end of the sweep with the WOT I am still 3 inches wider than the 12 x 15. When U add up the hundreds of sweeps a hunt that is a lot of real estate: it is all in the numbers
Also I could care less if I ever dig a post-gold, diamond or whatever

 

[synthnut]

Critter
Thanks for the information ....It looks like it will be the 12 x 15 after all .....From all the research you did , and the comparisons of each coil , the 12 x 15 sounds like a winner to me .... The size and shape can be a positive and a negative .....I can deal with that ......Thanks for all your comparisons ...It surely helped me decide .....Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Wait a sec here. Correct me if I'm wrong but the actual size of the WOT is 14.25", is it not? At least that's what I always heard. If that's the case then you are only wider by 2.25", and that's only for a very small portion dead center of that round coil. The 15x12 holds it's width for a longer portion of the length of the coil, so that more than makes up for things. Also, the 15x12 is 15" long. That creates a .75" size advantage in length. 2.25" (not really, think in terms of surface area or the extended width of an SEF) compared to .75 is almost nothing at all. That equates to a 1.50 size advantage to the WOT in terms of coverage, and it's not really that when you consider the width/span thing. In fact, if you wanted to be particular about it then I'd rather have the size advantage in length as compared to width. Reason being that in terms of width most would say that you should still sweep fully over a deep target with the very center of the coil or you might not hear it. With the size increase in length though, everything in that added dimension is being covered with the center of the coil. Hey, I just realized one of the reasons why they made these SEF coils these dimensions.

Just running the numbers. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. And let's not forget that the WOT is much heavier than the 15x12. Look at my coil comparison chart I compiled in I think the Coil Stat & Opinions thread. The WOT and the old 10" BBS coil are the two heaviest coils out there in anything under 15" in size. These are the Sovereign coil numbers I weighed on the 15x12. Other numbers for other coils came from the manufacturer or somebody weighed them for me. I believe based on what I've seen that the FBS versions of these SEF coils are a good bit heavier than the Sovereign versions as well. Based on my experience with the 15x12 it's weight was not an issue at all for me (without coil cover and using spray on liner), but I would not want to use any coil that weighed anymore than it myself.

You're also not thinking in terms of surface area. The SEF holds it's width in relation to it's length for a much more wider span of that length than a round coil. You can look up the pictures I posted of the WOT and 15x12 laying over top of each other (taken by another member of this forum who owns them both) and see where I'm going with that.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here ya go. See what I mean? Not much difference in terms of coverage, and I'd rather have that extra coverage in relation to a slightly longer coil, because that means I'm covering things as deep as possible in that extra perspective (middle of a DD coil is it's deepest portion, the sides aren't nearly reaching down as far in depht). All a matter of perspective I guess.

Remember, when I say your are wider by 2.25" that is only for a very small portion of the diameter of a round coil. The SEF holds it's width much more longer in terms of length.

 

[synthnut]

The middle of those coils look pretty darn close in length to me Critter ......Looks like less to get things tanged on with the WOT .......I'm still looking for a 12 x 15 SEF though ....Jim

 

[erikk]

I SURRENDER......... I cannot type as fast or as long nor do I care to. I will continue to use the WOT, find my share of gold rings, have fun and not worry about all the technical crap. I am still strong enough to hunt it so I don't worry about weight and if you have to count ounces maybe consider a swingy-thingy to help out. Everyone else can use whatever coil their heart desires as it is not going to effect what I find one way or the other.
What I didn't see commented on was the ability of the WOT to respond to targets beyond the coils diameter and when you are swinging the full arc of the shaft when you get to the end that's it 12 or 15. So, with the 15 (excuse me 14.???) I am still extended farther and covering more ground per swing x hundreds per hunt still makes for much more real estate covered.................................THE END!!!!!!!

 

[kered]

Errik, yes the 15x12 will pick up outside the perimiter of the coil, and sometimes well outside the perimiter, not much to front and back though, one of the reasons its good at pinpointing with the backward wiggle, the target is in the front V when it gives out.

 

[hershey1]

I'm with you erikk. I'm more concerned with troy ounces than coil ounces. HH

 

[Critterhunter]

Sorry Errik, I tend to be a bit over bearing when it comes to details on things that strike my interest. The WOT is a great coil and I shouldn't really come acrossed like it's not. I'm just so ethusiastic about these SEF coils. So long as it works great for you and gets deep then that's all that matters.

Jim, I can say that both the 15x12 and 12x10 snag on branches and other junk in the woods less than the stock round 10" coil. The SEFs have more webbing and so are more prone to slide over things rather than allow them to work their way up into the coil. At first you wouldn't think that, as they have more "holes" than a standard round coil, but it's true for me. Also, I can say that the 12x10 slides more easily over grass and sand than the stock coil. I guess this is more due to it's shape, where as a round shaped coil will tend to catch things with it's edge and dig in more often. There is more surface area on the sides of the SEFs that make for more potential to hit and ride up over things in that respect.

 

[erikk]

Sorry Errik, I tend to be a bit over bearing when it comes to details on things that strike my interest. The WOT is a great coil and I shouldn't really come acrosed like it's not. I'm just so ethusiastic about these SEF coils. So long as it works great for you and gets deep then that's all that matters.


I think it is pretty funny-(kind of like what's better Chevy Or Ford & I like the 2500 Dodge 4x4 diesel) & if I could type like U I would keep going but alas it is not 2 B. The SEF is probably well suited 4 your type of hunting (and can be purchased from only one place 2 my knowledge) but I do the excal/WOT in the water exclusively. If I do the wet it is the explorer 2/WOT w/swingy-thingy The few times I do the dirt I use multiple coils with the Explorer 2 or use one of the F-75's but common sense prevails & a gold ring is worth a whole bunch of coins (even silver) which I have many hundreds and thousands of wheaties over the years (my trashed elbow will attest to that!)
C your opinion in a few years HH

Jim, I can say that both the 15x12 and 12x10 snag on branches and other junk in the woods less than the stock round 10" coil. The SEFs have more webbing and so are more prone to slide over things rather than allow them to work their way up into the coil. At first you wouldn't think that, as they have more "holes" than a standard round coil, but it's true for me. Also, I can say that the 12x10 slides more easily over grass and sand than the stock coil. I guess this is more due to it's shape, where as a round shaped coil will tend to catch things with it's edge and dig in more often. There is more surface area on the sides of the SEFs that make for more potential to hit and ride up over things in that respect.

 

[synthnut]

Crtter,
I was picturing the SEF 12 x 15 or 10 x 12 with the webbing grabbing seaweed and such moreso than a WOT .....It just apears that way ....I could be wrong ....????......I don't think that either coil would be a bad choice .....My preference is the 12 x 15 ....Sort of like "the poison I know " .......Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Yea, I guess that could be an issue when water hunting, but I know in the woods either SEF coil is less prone to snagging branches and other ground litter compared to the stock 10" coil. The webbing makes it right over things better without it poking through. Never would have guessed that until I saw it for myself. Half the time with the stock coil I was b*tching out loud after about 5 hours of intense wood hunting and kept having to get the coil unstuck. It does happen with the SEF coils, but way less IMO. Put it this way, I was about ready to cut out some corruplast (very durable sign material that looks like cardboard being ribbed, but it's plastic) and then zip tie that to my 10" coil to make it a solid one when wood hunting. After I got the 15x12 I didn't feel the need for that, nor do I with the 12x10.

Corruplast (probably spelling it wrong) is fantastic for various projects. I made goose decoys out of the stuff for field hunting after carrying a friend's home made silhouettes made from Masonite around. Two dozen of those things weighed about 60 or 70 pounds I think, not to mention about 10 pounds of mud on my boots. I made templates to quickly spray paint the ones I cut from corruplast and in about two hours I had roughly 3 dozen for a total cost of about $30 from memory. If you find a local banner supply wholesaler they sell 4x8 sheets of the stuff for like $12, and it even comes in different colors if you want. Commercial silhouettes are pretty darn expensive, so I saved myself a good bit of money. I also picked up those metal sign stands that are meant to slide into the corruplast between the ribs for sticking them into the ground. Drilled a hole through all of them to tie them up for transport thrown over my shoulder. Works like a charm.

We also use the stuff in RC some times for building parts of planes such as the horizontal or vertical stabilizers because the stuff is so durable. Also works great for ailerons or elevons, even V-stails. You can't rip it, it won't water log, and it's pretty stiff. For a detector coil you'd just cut it to the size of your coil, then poke some holes around it's edge for some zip ties (better yet, melt them out with a heated nail...more durable), and you're all set for woods hunting. It's smooth surface will slide over the ground rather easy too.