Wringing truth from Ring threads...

[hodr]

I know there have been several threads about gold, and jewelry in general (including that epic thread several months back with the photos of ring analyze screens), but I was hoping to get a good thread going concerning the sound / feel of a good ring target.

I noticed while reading through the finds sections that people usually say that they knew from the sound that it was going to be a ring before they dug.

I have never been much of a jewelry guy, so the only rings I have are my bowling rings (300 game, 800 series, etc.) which are all silver or jewelry grade stainless steel, and the one gold ring I have found (very thin 10k, vdi's at 8-10).

I have tried to figure out if there is a difference in the sound between my tiny gold ring and a pulltab, but other than the pitch, I really can't determine any difference.

I would appreciate it if you guys who feel that you can identify a ring still in the ground (even if its only occasionally) could share how you come to this conclusion.

How is the sound different from foil or pulltabs? What is it about the size / shape / sound that convinces you?

And even though the analysis screen threads seem to be inconclusive at best, if you have a trick you think works for that screen, please share.

And of course, I am not expecting that there would be any one sound or feature that always identifies all rings / jewelry. But is there any specific sound / feature that often means a ring?

For instance, this is a theory (that I cant really test) that I got from reading the analysis screen thread. Perhaps the smaller hump (secondary target / signal) directly before or after the main hump in the analysis screen may point to a ring because rings often have a thinner (inner) band side and a thicker outer side (which wouldn't be the case for uniform sized mens style wedding bands).


Please post your thoughts...

-Hodr

 

[nw1886]

The only thing about the VDI's of rings is they tend to stay fairly tight. (Notice I said tend to?) Broken, bent and cheaper alloying consistently through this off. If a manufacturer/detectorist had any true way of telling...it would be screamed from the rooftops! Those pesky variables, of ALL items found, keep things real. Fast retrieval times and better spots are what truly bring in the gold.

 

[Rob (IL)]

I can't tell a ring before I get it out of the ground. It's always a pleasant surprise. If anyone finds a way we wouldn't need to bother with anything else. I don't believe it and the analysis screen won't do it. Rob[attachment 153782 whites_spectra.gif]

 

[Larry (IL)]

To the best of my knowledge, there has not been a detector made yet that can tell the difference from a pull tab and a gold ring. Hopefully someone can come up with some subtle differences with the V3 to make the odds a little better though.....

 

[hodr]

I know there are tons of detectors made specifically for gold (with incredibly high frequencies to find the tiniest nuggets), but what if they took the opposite approach?

I think the next flagship detector from whites needs to be a 4+ frequency detector. The 4th frequency could be specifically selected to be the optimum frequency for aluminum response (if such a freq exists). Then instead of a salt compensate mode we just have a junk compensate mode. If the other frequencies peg a target to be in the foil & gold overlapping range (what, 0-30 or so?) and the aluminum frequency is more than x% greater than the others, discriminate it out (or don't, but it might make that analyze screen a lot more useful).

Ohh well. A guy can dream.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Gold chains, bracelets, platinum rings will come in at 0 or sometimes a little lower. Small gold rings that I have found will come in at about VDI of 10 on up to 67 for a large men's class ring. It is not that simple to have just a frequency just for gold, but the 22.5 frequency is fantastic for the small gold that other detectors don't even "see".

 

[nw1886]

Wouldn't surprise me if some kind of tech will be developed for "some kind of measurement" to define a gold signal. But...wy job in the winter puts me in a coin shop where we buy a lot of gold scrap. We've got acids, electrical devices, hack saws and eyeballs to determine if something is gold. The least dependable is the EXPENSIVE electronic devise. (And it touches the gold!)

Just a note. Fake gold mixes of metal are starting to show up. They test good with the acids too! We haven't been hit but we've been warned at least. Bars make us wary.

 

[Kingpowers]

Most thin rings give a small tight pinpoint signal , lumps of foil give a broader sound in pinpoint. One possible way and maybe the only way for a detector to tell the difference in the future between a ring and a tab is by size. Tabs are slightly bigger than finger rings. I found a few thin rings vdi 10 ish and in pinpoint i have noticed a difference with the small signal in pinpoint. I guess if the detector could in some way measure the precise size of a target maybe this would be a way to do it. Telling tabs from thicker gold rings no diference in pinpoint or signal they all sound the same as you know.

 

[Southwind]

I've been able to call a ring in the ground several times, but its still just playing the odds. Of course you can bend the odds in your favor.

I can't say the analysis screen has done any good from a lack of experience, but I do use the VDI numbers to narrow the possibilities. And yes it can be done. No it is not 100% accurate.

The rings I've been able to call have been the results of digging a lot of rings from the same location. For example, Sunnyside school has produced over 80 rings to date, and I have pulled as many as 6 rings on a single hunt. Hunting this site day after day it was easy to see that pull tabs had a VDI of 23, 38 and 50. With little to no can slaw any signal other than 23, 38 or 50 would end up being something worth digging. Buttons and odd & end jewelry mostly. After having dug several medium sized silver rings that had a VDI of 83 it wasn't rocket science to speculate when I got a VDI of 83 that good chances were it was a silver ring. I happen to know a silver dime reads 81-82 and a clad quarter reads 84-85 at this site, and every VDI 83, so far, had been a silver ring. I called it twice with my hunting buddies and both times it was a silver ring.

As has been mentioned rings tend to have a tight VDI pattern that helps separate them from most trash which doesn't. For me I have never found a gold ring above a VDI of 18. I know other say they have, and I keep digging, but I have yet to find a gold ring with a VDI higher than 18. In fact they tend to range from +4(very small ring) to +18(mens ring). So when I'm hunting a tot lot and get a VDI between +4 and +18 that has a tight pattern, meaning the VDI doesn't change more than 1 or 2 numbers from any direction, then there is a very high probability of being a gold ring. Doesn't guarantee it, but does give you much better odds.

Several weeks ago I called a gold ring while hunting an old football field with a friend. We have hunted this site quite a bit so we're familiar with most of the common trash for that site. Knowing what most common trash reads makes it fairly easy to call something thats likely not trash. At least not the common trash you're acquainted with. I got a solid VDI of 14 from both directions and no trash had read 14 yet so I told my buddy that by all rights this should be a gold ring. I turned over the flap or grass and there was a 2004 14k class ring. Sure it was just a guess, but an educated guess derived from experience at this site which increased the odds in my favor. This can be done at any site that is not completely littered with a variety of trash.

You can't always tell if you have a ring but you can bend the odds in your favor.

 

[Rob (IL)]

Southwind, I've dug many 83 quarters in my soil. Here's a VDI 57.[attachment 153831 champs2.jpg] It was 10kt gold. Eliminating the most dominate tabs helps, but we know experience helps and it still is a crap shoot. Boy you have a great ring site. I'm looking forward to your test posts when your weather changes. Rob

 

[Neil in West Jersey]

The differences are subtle, but they are there.

In all of my extensive bench testing done this cold, snowy winter I tested good targets and bad in a controlled environment. I never would have noticed the differences until I bench tested a large puffy gold heart that I gave to my wife more than 20 years ago.

This was the smoothest sounding target I have ever heard with no "edges". It was more like the hum of the all metal channel with a tone added, than the beep that I am so used to when digging coins. "Like butter", as they say.

It made me realize how target shape affects the response tone. I went back and retested several different target types and noticed that a very worn coin will a smoother tone than an uncirculated coin with many denticles.

Also the orientation in the soil will have an affect. a ring lying flat would be hard to ID, but a ring on edge would sound smoother.

To answer your question, YES there are absolutely differences between the tones of some rings and junk. A bulky school ring, like the one in the reply on this thread may not be that different than junk, but a sold domed wedding band on edge (like the one pictured) would certainly sound smoother.

 

[nw1886]

Those subtleties can only be seen by doing what you've done Neil. As the season continues, it will be great to hear how it serves the goal of determining whats what! Boils down to audio being king!

 

[Larry (IL)]

In my testing, a smooth ring will usually give a smooth sound, but a ring with stones mounted sounds more junky. Orientation in the ground will also affect the quality of the audio, especially when the stones are pointing up. Just too many odd angles for a clean audio.

 

[gilfordberry]

I think that understanding what your detector is "seeing" is an advantage here. The radio frequency energy is transmitted into the ground by your transmit coil. When that energy encounters a metal target, some will be reflected but most will be absorbed by that metal target, and the energy causes the electrons in the target to be displaced. IF THE TARGET IS SMOOTH AND ROUND, the electrons will spin around in a circle - a single circle. This will produce a single return frequency and a VERY "SMOOTH" sound. If the target is complex in shape, the electrons will spin around in different "zones" within the target - producing multiple return frequencies - a "ragged" signal. (These are called "eddy currents" in electronics). So, like someone said earlier, IF the ring is smooth AND if it is oriented in such a way that the energy from your transmit coil hits it on the side (like the ring is lying flat), you will get the smooth signal and tight vdi span that you can associate with a ring. BUT, if the ring is elaborate, several different currents will be generated in the target and it will sound more like a pull tab. Also, if the ring is oriented vertically in the ground the currents will tend to spin in a circle ON THE TOP AND BOTTOM EDGES OF THE RING - so not so many electrons being pushed (fewer dominoes lined up) - and you will get a much weaker signal (this is also why coins on edge are much harder to detect than those lying flat) and, in addition, the bottom of the ring will generate a signal out of phase with that generated by the top - and the combination of the top and bottom signals will sound like trash - or maybe will be completely inaudible. So, bottom line is this: LISTEN very carefully. If it is a very smooth sound, it's likely a ring or other good target. If it's a ragged sound, it's probably junk - BUT it could be an elaborate diamond engagement ring! If your target has a vdi between 14 and 18 AND gives you a smooth sound, you are PROBABLY going to be richer in a few seconds. I have found gold rings, though, with VDI numbers as low as -40 and as high as 78 - and I found a gold woman's watch - 18k band and all - that had a VDI of 76 - I thought I was digging a penny. Good luck.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Thanks for the post and welcome to the forum. I hope you post more often than once every three years............

 

[butch]

Ring tones,VDI numbers,analize screen are only "maybe" tools.They all help in determining an item,but none are fool proof,or at least in my experience.With a lot of study and practice,one can get really good at estimating decoding what their machine is telling them,but its never 100%,we all know this by now.
The V3 has given us more access to better tools than we ever had before,but....the real truth comes when you dig the "beep"! If your not sure,or second guessing,dig it anyway and you will be in for more pleasant surprises than if you don't dig.Soil conditions,trashy areas and a host of other variables make ring tones change very easily.One rule of thumb that I follow that has paid off over the years is that I dig the target and regardless of tone.Last year I dug 109 Silver coins,5 rings one real rare military piece that came up as a "junk" reading,it was my best find ever.Now with the above mentioned treasures,I also dug my share of the usual trash,alot of this I could have walked away from,but I would have missed some nices pieces in between.If anyone is using the V3 and only getting junk,it's because the targets are simply not there,or they are ignoring the signals.This machine will find them,you just have to be willing to work with it.

 

[Rob (IL)]

[attachment 154419 hammack.gif]Good post, it's still a guess. Rob

 

[nw1886]

This dang topic is one that's answers haven't changed since I was detecting in the 70's!!! Don't get me wrong...volume of info coming at you has increased. Engineering has made unreal bounds forward into amazing break downs of all the processing and it's delivery to the user. All that has changed. What hasn't is basic physics. It's not going to change and the seemingly simple is not. To get out there and re-guess (with improved guessing stats) on info that has already been reduced down to "as good as it's going to get" is a waist of time. We already know that "good and bad" targets is not a correct way of thinking (about targets) when we are asking these machines to do the thinking for us. Like it or not....aluminum is one high quality metal that is quality because it shares the most important of it's characteristics with gold. (The world as we know it would fall apart if we didn't take advantage of this metals abilities.) We use it with everything. Mix it with other metals in an unending list of variations. Then we shape,shred,and throw it at the ground like it's garbage.No matter how strongly we dislike it, it is not garbage.

I'll be danged if I'm going to spend my time telling these facts to "just go away", sweep my coil over it endlessly (to pump more energy into making it "go away"), question all the already rendered down minutia and read between the already thin lines and rope in some "butterfly effect". Like Larry and others have said...."Dig it already!" They'll scream from the rooftops...when things change to categorize all those presently uncategorizable...pesky, variables. They rule...like it or not!

 

[Larry (IL)]

Do you feel better now Scott............ Cabin fever??

 

[Monte]

[size=large]"Beep- [size=x-large]DIG![/size] "[/size] ... "The ONLY 100% accurate discrimination or visual TID is your eyes!"