You CANT do THAT Here!!

[jbow]

Perhaps you could contact the school administration and see about getting permission?

Absolutely!! and stress the "free security service" that you will offer. That you will watch for anything that looks wrong and report anyone who doesn't seem to belong.

Plus, and others have probably said this... check and see if there is actually a statute that forbids you being there. It is public property after all and should be accessable to you if you are doing no harm and no students are present.

Julien

 

[dahut]

I honestly feel that once the school board hears your side of the story, they will have to make the correct decision. I have done some background checks on you on the internet (of course) and do not believe (from what I found), you act or sound like a wild-eyed whacko but someone who true enjoys and believes in what he is doing.
While doing my little research I found this on someone's blog,

You must have passion, committment, involvement, immersion, perhaps even obsession, if you are to ever achieve anything worthwhile. All the greats at anything do it - they don't go at "their thing" half way. They pursue
it to its ultimate possibilities, without distraction.

The best of Luck to you

Terry

Well its nice to see Im so well regarded in the world!

Im loving too that you've done "background checks" on me. I find that most enlightening... care to elaborate?

 

[dahut]

As far as bashing officers, my best friend for over 40 years was and is an officer and I've been side by side detecting, fishing, hunting, etc. and during those times I've seen with my own eyes, following him on patrol back in the good ole' days when that was allowed, there are thoughtful as well as thoughtless officers just as with all people in all walks of life. I so well remember a security officer running me off a school EVEN THOUGH I had permission and even told him the principal's name. In the meantime my best friend pulled upon the campus to chat with him and he proceeded to tell him how he ran off a "weirdo" with a metal detector and describing me with even more terms. Well, this caused a light bulb to go on in his head and he asked what the "weirdo" was driving. After he described my vehicle, my best friend turned and walked away and said "That weirdo was my best friend". Yours was ONLY a report of facts that happened and IMHO the officer overreacted. And I don't think my best friend would mind me saying that.

By now, Slingshot, you know I'm not bashing the cops, at large. I'm not condoning that here, in fact, and have requested throughout this that we remain clear of that mindset.

That I rebel against society inviting the government to control our lives, through the police, well... that is a personal thing.
While it is the real, underlying issue here, I'm smart enough to know it is an esoteric card to hold. Few will side with me if I try to play that one.

Rather, it is only the single minded pursuit of the police officers ' authority that is in contest here. The dispute is this:

Do they have that authority to expel me from the grounds, if I am doing nothing wrong?
If you visit the school, the posted signs say, "Parking lots under police jurisdiction."
Nowhere is it posted to the effect that recreational use of the grounds is prohibited.

Thanks for your level input, buddy.

 

[jmaryt]

i agree!..unfortunately,somehow,i just don't get the impression this guy is the right man for the job!..(lol)

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[jbow]

In fact, I was allowed to search a school by an officer as long as I came on a certain day and let him know in advance-and the school had asked him to keep others off.

What if you try offering this to the officer asking for her cell number in case you see anything. She may reconsider if you ask her to do just that... reconsider. You might even try writing her a letter explaining your respect of her authority and the benefit of having a law adiding citizen on site when she knows you are going to be there. A letter will offer no occasion for confrontation or for a snap decision. She will have time to think it over then you can call or go see her. It might change things because it will offer her to ability to stay in control of the situation... which is what she really wants, control. She obviously knows you are no threat to break in. Maybe common sense will win the day.

J

 

[dahut]

i agree!..unfortunately,somehow,i just don't get the impression this guy is the right man for the job!..(lol)

(h.h!)
j.t.

Gee thanks - Im not sure if I should be flattered or PO'd!!

But you are right - no one will want me to keep an eye out on things. Im not trained, Im not a cop.. Im not anybody. Im just a citizen.

 

[dahut]

In fact, I was allowed to search a school by an officer as long as I came on a certain day and let him know in advance-and the school had asked him to keep others off.

What if you try offering this to the officer asking for her cell number in case you see anything. She may reconsider if you ask her to do just that... reconsider. You might even try writing her a letter explaining your respect of her authority and the benefit of having a law adiding citizen on site when she knows you are going to be there. A letter will offer no occasion for confrontation or for a snap decision. She will have time to think it over then you can call or go see her. It might change things because it will offer her to ability to stay in control of the situation... which is what she really wants, control. She obviously knows you are no threat to break in. Maybe common sense will win the day.

J

That is my most appealing option. Before I go too high over her head, I intend to do that.

 

[jbow]

Yes, he said it is built on an old Plantation site. Along with a later home but he also said the pickings are getting slim.

It would be a matter of principle to me... i'd have to try to schmooze my way back in with the officer and with the school. He is a known citizen and not known as a criminal... he shouldn't be treated as one.

Massage the officer's ego and power complex, give her a way to change her mind with no pressure. Make her think she is in control and having a positive meeting with the principle or with some school board member who is friendly will help too but I would talk to the officer first. A fovorable response from the school system but that leaves it up to the officer will offend the officer and get you nothing unless the school gives you written permission. You need to try the officer first and if that goes nowhere, then try to get written permission from the principle or a school board member.. remember, they need to be re-elected.

J

 

[jbow]

Well said but it was all already said except for the Peggy part and frankly that should not matter since the officer knows you and from what you said knows you to be a responsible citizen.

I really mourn the loss of common sense in our society. Without it we have no freedom, yes we may gain some insignifigant ammount of extra security but remember the saying (and it is very true) "locks only keep out honest people. A thief or worse will find an opportunity and certainly wont be a known detectorist, out in the open in the middle of the day.

Notifying the officer in advance should certainly be enough to resolve this and it should never have become a problem... the very idea that a local mom, whose kids went to this school, who is not a criminal, who is detecting, who does not hide from the officer and does not act aggressive is told to leave is absurd and offensive. If I were you, after getting permision from the school or board, I would go and talk to the mayor and the Captain with a view of how respectable citizens should be treated... about how there is a difference between the crook and the responsible citizen. It has become way too easy for authorities to just lump us all together as potential offenders... and that, in my view, is the biggest problem in all this. Without liberty there will be no responsibility to be responsible citizens. I feel very strongly about this and I admit that I have become a little angry reading and responding to this but I think with good reason. Too many have sacrificed too much for our freedom to have it slip away because of the laziness and unwillingness of officers to take the responsibility to THINK and make a decision that makes sense and preserves the freedom of the honest citizens of a community.

:veryangry:

Julien

 

[jbow]

I know firsthand (from someone who works for me). He was robbed, an aTV stolen. He knew who took it an where it was. The sheriff dept did nothing. He finally got it back himself. Down the same road he lives on a deputy was robbed... the dept was all over that case. They literally do not care if you get burgurized unless you have the thief at gunpoint or shoot him in your home they wont even take fingerprints, they just don't care. They have too much to do but they always have time to sit on the local interstate and profile cars to stop for "weaving' or "following too closely" or some other crap, then bring the drug dogs. They do find drugs but they are passing through and are no threat to our community. They however, get to seize the drugs, cash, and vehicle. They also have time to investigate any crime against one of their "own". I know I am a little cynical but i've lived long enough to see too much of it.

They should be trying to serve the whole community and they should have the sense to see harmless and even beneficial behavior by a citizen that they know personally. I think sometimes I was born 160 years too late... I think I am more of a 19th century man and I absolutely miss the 1950s and small town life when people trusted others. We left our keys in the car at night. In fact many cars and trucks didn't need a key. You could stop and fish at any bridge over a river or creek and you probbly still can in South GA but here in NW GA many landowners don't even want people stopping and fishing in a creek on the side of the road... it is all a symptom of the same thing. A law abiding citizen, known to the police, is run off when there is no good reason... "there have been break ins" "it's the rules"... what it is is BS. It is irresponsible enforcement, using the lowest common demoninator of society and applying it to entire society. I am sorry but in order to have freedom a society must be willing to take reasonale risk, not to be stupid about it but freedom and responsibility requires thought, not strict adherence to rules. We also have the "zero tolerance" rules at schools where 1st graders have been sent home for drawing a picture of a gun... it is wrong and I hope and pray it will begin to swing back in the other direction, back toward personal responsibility and common sense where there is less liability inolved in everything we do, think, or say.

Sorry for the rant...

Julien

 

[slingshot]

Sorry for any implication that said your were bashing. That's not what I meant and I thought I said that in my reply.

 

[jmaryt]

nothing personal big guy!..however i hope that you can actually detect again in that town,WITHOUT
experiencing any "backlash"..so to speak!..i hope they leave ya alone!

regards!
(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

unfortunately!.they don't care!..they got a bitch from somewhere,and threw him out to answer the gripe!
plain and simple!..they responded,neutralized the situation,and went on to the next call!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[dahut]

nothing personal big guy!..however i hope that you can actually detect again in that town,WITHOUT
experiencing any "backlash"..so to speak!..i hope they leave ya alone!

regards!
(h.h!)
j.t.

LE backlash is a concern, and not just for me. If I'm to think of others, then all detectorists in this area are in the same boat.
Reports are coming in from all over the region about enforcement and banishment from 'public places', so it seems the word is out about us.

It is tempting for us to say "Aw c'mon man, its just one school... move on."
Or, "That sort of thing doesnt happen around here. I guess Im lucky"
Or, "The cops were just doing their righteous duty, cant you see that?"

But we are all in this. Any one of us may be the focus of their enforcement next time, if the situation, or the individual officer, warrants it.
To think it is only Dahuts problem is being blind.
There is a reality in the new world of detecting, and it is this: We had all better be prepared to speak up for our right to detect.

JT you said up thread that we should pick our battles. I couldn't agree more. If we do it sooner, in a manner of our own choosing, then we stand the chance of winning. If we turn a blind eye and hope it never happens to us, then we will be left to beg for our right to detect after the fact.

 

[BH_Landstar_]

I've been watching this thread for sometime now, and, just maybe a local detectorist called the cops (not that the detectorist told them that he is one himself etc) so that he could get the finds on that land himself at a later time. It's possible, greed is a wonderful driver at times !

Just my two and a quarter cents......

 

[Furious T]

I dont know if this will make you feel better or not, but In Aust in the State where I live, the schools are going through a process of having 7'-8' steel spike fences erected to keep EVERYONE out, even when the kids aren't there. The main reason this has happened is because of break-ins and arson being perpetrated on schools.

In your case, you did nothing wrong. Nothing.

From the police point of view, neither did they do anything wrong. If bad things have been happening at a school, the easiest and most cost efficient way of policing and securing the property is to keep EVERYONE out, even when the kids aren't there.

If I was in your position and wanted to go back detecting, I would first approach the school authorities to see if you can obtain permission (written) to search the property after school hours. If such permission is granted, I would contact the officer whom you know and let her know that you have now received permission to be on the property in pursuance of your hobby.

Good luck with it.

 

[Double T]

n/t

 

[bossman]

How about this,was mding a school play ground and a man came up and said who are you.Well I told him it didn't matter,who was he?He said he was the maintenance man and I could be there. I said sure I can This public property,and I was Mr. Public. At that time he said Ill call the cops your trespassing .At that time I sat down on the slide and said OK.then I ask how is it marked.signs? paint? what? I said you cant be here. by then I had heard enough,I told him if you had ask me to leave,I would have left BUT you cant use laws you no nothing about,He said so who are you a Cop? at that time I opened my coat and showed him my badge and other stuff.His only reply was OH! I said I'm going now because I know you are trying to do what you think is right.BUT next time ask and 9 out 10 Will just leave.Hi reply was OK thank you.

 

[jmaryt]

i agree in principal,but to be totally honest,it has ALWAYS been this way ever since i started hunting more than thirty years ago!
NOTHING has changed!..i have a flair for the dramatic,so to be perfectly blunt,..you cannot control the actions of others!
you CAN control what YOU do!..YOU must set the example when your are in the field!..YOU do this by making damn sure YOU dig properly'
WITHOUT damaging property in ANY way!..YOU present yourself in the best light possible while you are in the field!..YOU do not intimidate in any way,
and ALWAYS conduct yourself as a responsible citizen!..if all detectorists practiced these basic fundamentals of the hobby,then very few people
would have justification to complain!..REMEMBER! you and you alone control your own destiny!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[dahut]

i agree in principal,but to be totally honest,it has ALWAYS been this way ever since i started hunting more than thirty years ago!
NOTHING has changed!..i have a flair for the dramatic,so to be perfectly blunt,..you cannot control the actions of others!
you CAN control what YOU do!..YOU must set the example when your are in the field!..YOU do this by making damn sure YOU dig properly'
WITHOUT damaging property in ANY way!..YOU present yourself in the best light possible while you are in the field!..YOU do not intimidate in any way,
and ALWAYS conduct yourself as a responsible citizen!..if all detectorists practiced these basic fundamentals of the hobby,then very few people
would have justification to complain!..REMEMBER! you and you alone control your own destiny!

(h.h!)
j.t.

Nice pep talk, JT. It reminds of the Donald Southerland character, "Sgt. Oddball," in the movie, 'Kellys Heroes!' Youre right, and I know you meanwell. But I still don't think you're getting it.

I've already got all that stuff covered, on all counts. I've been doing this for more than 20 years, some of them at that very school. I've met cops there before, and elsewhere.
No holes, damage or sign of my presence has ever been left there or anywhere else. I always purport myself with utmost decorum and respect and that has never been in contest, either.

None of that was the issue, and it made little difference that I am an upright citizen. The problem was that I was, indeed, "there."

At some point we have to face that fact, self-help speeches to the contrary.

As for my destiny, in that instance, it was already decided. I may change its path in the near future and find myself back there again.
But all my "positive waves" were doing nothing for me that day.