6 machines - undisturbed dirt - depth tests

[Barry NY]

new video:

6 machines - undisturbed dirt - depth

 

[jimmyk]

Very informative. Were both Vistas in "Boost"? For raw depth, it looks like the Bliss rules.

jimmyk in missouri

 

[Barry NY]

Yes and Yes.
Those Vista's are iron separation killers plus hold their own nicely in the depth department...

Very informative. Were both Vistas in "Boost"? For raw depth, it looks like the Bliss rules.

jimmyk in missouri

 

[jimmyk]

Agreed. Different tools for different jobs (situations).

jimmyk

 

[JimmyCT]

Barry,
I enjoy watching your videos. Thank you for taking time to perform extensive testing between detectors. The blisstool certainly shines in the depth department for sure. When I first started detecting "depth" was my main concern. As I grew in the hobby, I realized very quickly having "superior depth" isn't going to do me much good if the machine can't separate two targets lying close together. The Deeptech( from what I have witnessed in your videos) has a blend of both depth and superior separation abilities in heavy iron. Very nice machines for sure. Thanks again for posting - Jim

 

[Deusdigger]

What detectors did you tweek settings on and which were on factory settings?

 

[solus2sail]

It's disheartening when your expensive new machine sucks wind in a controlled comparison test.
Good information to know though.
Thank you for the video.

 

[Barry NY]

The only machine that was "tweaked" was the Deus. I have a special deep program that I developed over time that works for me in my dirt. Some of the settings include 12 kHz, 1.0 disc, 93 Sens, reactivity 2, audio resp 4, etc..
The other machines the settings were either discussed or shown.
All machines were set to be able to detect in a stable manner - so nothing was running so hot you couldn't detect normally with it...

What detectors did you tweek settings on and which were on factory settings?

 

[GunnarMN]

I agree with Jimmy in a trash infested site, the Vistas rule, what we need is a Vistool. detector

 

[Southwind]

Cream(the best) always rises to the top. Just common sense.

 

[michaelnc]

How about testing a Whites V3i next time and a Garrett AT Gold and Pro. I thought the Fisher looked pretty impressive in these tests too.

 

[Critterhunter]

I've watched the Blisstool since it's introduction and never saw enough to take the leap. Lately I've been eyeing the Vista Deeptech units and getting closer to adding one to my line up of machines for certain situations IE: low non-ferrous trash with potential of deep coins in fields and such on private land where deep holes without VDI or discrimination much above iron to be particular about what to dig is a non-issue when digging deep holes.

Primarily, what I'd love to see to get off the fence is a comparison of the Deeptech units on some deep silver and copper coins along with gold rings against a Sovereign GT in pin point mode. Even super thin gold rings, as while Minelabs don't do well with fine gold chains or tiny gold earings, they will bang a super deep thin gold ring as deep as an old coin in my experience by way of them being intact loops, and thus presenting just as easy of a target to Minelabs at depth as a solid coin will.

Pin Point mode on the Sovereigns/Excaliburs has many characteristics of a PI unit, in both extreme depth beyond normal abilities of "VLF" units, and also the ability to cut through even the worst of grounds that even BBS multifrequency finds it's self at it's knees at. You can run in PP at full sensitivity 99% of the time despite EMI or ground minerals, and with full volume it also achieves more depth, athough even with volume lowest, while it doesn't seem to affect depth on my GT in disc, I have found it does affect PP's depth and yet still got deeper at one very mineralized beach than disc- same sensitivity level stable for disc and same lowest volume. No doubt though full volume/sensitivity in PP will punch super deep.

Here's where it gets interesting for me in contemplating a potential Deeptech unit....No VDI, no tone alerts (other than two tones for iron/higher targets from what I read in some models?), and yet with some ability to judge targets via the audio response? OK then, if what I have read thus far is correct (assuming), then the abilities of PP mode on the Sov/Excal are somewhat similar from the sound of it. I'm somewhat new to the potential of PP mode on my GT, yet I've read of guys exclaiming as good or better depth as the top PI units they've owned over the years, in both good and bad ground (a recent thread in last few months can be found on this in the beach forum).

Also, I hear there are about 10 "words" to judge target traits by in PP without the need to flip back to disc to judge them. In the short time (since last summer) I have used PP on the beach, in the water, and on land, yes...I can already see some of those words. I can usually tell iron from non-ferrous targets by about 4 different target reports in PP. And I hear there are several more for things like skinny targets, round, and so on in non-ferrous traits.

Long story short, to me this sound similar in ability to the Deeptechs in judging targets and in potential depth perhaps. The depth thing is the key question in my mind. So, if I could see some depth tests in both good and bad soils & sands on copper and silver coins and gold rings (even super thin ones) to judge depth potentials on to a GT, and if that shows me substantial more on the Deeptech, then I might be in business here to add one to my line up of machines. I am both intrigued by the potential performance and the price, which seem both on more solid ground thus far than prior deep weapons I've heard rumblings of one way or the other.

Now, no doubt on thin gold chains or tiny earrings the Deeptechs are going to cream a Minelab, but that depends on your hunting style. For me, by my way of thinking, I've owned machines super sensitive to fine gold, and found they made for a rather bumpy ride on land chasing small foil flakes and such. I prefer that stuff to sound sick, and only want the depth on gold rings for the most part.

One of the perks of reverse discrimination hunting on the BBS units is the ability to flip back to disc and re-check a target's potential. The question I ask myself is- Does it sound deeper than disc can see for that given soils/sands minerals? If so, and it don't have iron traits in PP, then I dig regardless of not being able to hear it in disc. At some sites disc might have 12 to 14" in depth on stuff. At badly mineralized ones (one in particular) it was about 5" on a coin. That's the rule of thumb I use, to judge targets with reverse discrimination. Any deeper than I think disc can see, and if it's not sounding like iron traits in PP, then I'm digging.

The other thing I'm trying to contrast to decide of needing a Deeptech in my line up is just which model. Every single freq machine I've owned in my mineralized soils/sands above about 8khz got lousy depth and separation, and seemed to get even less depth on silver/copper coins. From what I've gleamed so far on the Deeptech units, seems the higher freq gold unit might go against that rule of thumb? If I hadn't read otherwise, I might be prone to automatically go for the lowest freq unit, but if the higher freq one can still punch deep in my soil/sands for both old coins and rings, yet provide two tones, then that might be a rule changer for me.

I need more input and advice on that. Primarily I'm an old coin hunter, but I do go for the gold on the beach often too. This is where my delema lies on the higher/lower freq Deeptech units, and also as said how they might contrast in depth ability to PP mode on my GT. If you could swing a video with PP mode on the GT in comparison that would help me greatly to make a decision.

If you do, be sure to ground balance in Track All Metal, then switch to Fixed and then PP, as a recent Email I got from Minelab says PP does use the all metal ground balance setting, despite the manual saying it is a form of all metal that doesn't feature a ground balance. Also told PP or Fixed will hold it's last setting when flipping to disc, which doesn't use a ground balance due to the unique way it ignores the ground signal, so that when you flip back to PP it will still have it's GB calibration that was set prior.

Thanks for any input and potential video comparisons you can make on this. If I could see any advantage I just might pull the trigger here, but I need to see both same site/same target/max volume and sensitivity in PP to judge final like for myself...

 

[MNCoinhunter]

If that was a "long story short", I'd hate to see one of your long stories ..

 

[Critterhunter]

Meant to say long story longer, but was about ready for bed. Can type fast, so only took a few minutes to hammer out what I'm trying to contrast for myself to make a buying decision of another machine in my line up. I'm very intrigued by the Deeptech units and the price seems reasonable, but I want to see more and also am trying to contrast the two tone higher freq unit in bad ground on silver/copper coins and gold rings to the higher freq two tone model. If either punches deeper than PP on my GT for that stuff then I'll bite. Would prefer the two tone model if it does. Decisions decisions...

 

[Barry NY]

PM sent.......

I've watched the Blisstool since it's introduction and never saw enough to take the leap. Lately I've been eyeing the Vista Deeptech units and getting closer to adding one to my line up of machines for certain situations IE: low non-ferrous trash with potential of deep coins in fields and such on private land where deep holes without VDI or discrimination much above iron to be particular about what to dig is a non-issue when digging deep holes.

Primarily, what I'd love to see to get off the fence is a comparison of the Deeptech units on some deep silver and copper coins along with gold rings against a Sovereign GT in pin point mode. Even super thin gold rings, as while Minelabs don't do well with fine gold chains or tiny gold earings, they will bang a super deep thin gold ring as deep as an old coin in my experience by way of them being intact loops, and thus presenting just as easy of a target to Minelabs at depth as a solid coin will.

Pin Point mode on the Sovereigns/Excaliburs has many characteristics of a PI unit, in both extreme depth beyond normal abilities of "VLF" units, and also the ability to cut through even the worst of grounds that even BBS multifrequency finds it's self at it's knees at. You can run in PP at full sensitivity 99% of the time despite EMI or ground minerals, and with full volume it also achieves more depth, athough even with volume lowest, while it doesn't seem to affect depth on my GT in disc, I have found it does affect PP's depth and yet still got deeper at one very mineralized beach than disc- same sensitivity level stable for disc and same lowest volume. No doubt though full volume/sensitivity in PP will punch super deep.

Here's where it gets interesting for me in contemplating a potential Deeptech unit....No VDI, no tone alerts (other than two tones for iron/higher targets from what I read in some models?), and yet with some ability to judge targets via the audio response? OK then, if what I have read thus far is correct (assuming), then the abilities of PP mode on the Sov/Excal are somewhat similar from the sound of it. I'm somewhat new to the potential of PP mode on my GT, yet I've read of guys exclaiming as good or better depth as the top PI units they've owned over the years, in both good and bad ground (a recent thread in last few months can be found on this in the beach forum).

Also, I hear there are about 10 "words" to judge target traits by in PP without the need to flip back to disc to judge them. In the short time (since last summer) I have used PP on the beach, in the water, and on land, yes...I can already see some of those words. I can usually tell iron from non-ferrous targets by about 4 different target reports in PP. And I hear there are several more for things like skinny targets, round, and so on in non-ferrous traits.

Long story short, to me this sound similar in ability to the Deeptechs in judging targets and in potential depth perhaps. The depth thing is the key question in my mind. So, if I could see some depth tests in both good and bad soils & sands on copper and silver coins and gold rings (even super thin ones) to judge depth potentials on to a GT, and if that shows me substantial more on the Deeptech, then I might be in business here to add one to my line up of machines. I am both intrigued by the potential performance and the price, which seem both on more solid ground thus far than prior deep weapons I've heard rumblings of one way or the other.

Now, no doubt on thin gold chains or tiny earrings the Deeptechs are going to cream a Minelab, but that depends on your hunting style. For me, by my way of thinking, I've owned machines super sensitive to fine gold, and found they made for a rather bumpy ride on land chasing small foil flakes and such. I prefer that stuff to sound sick, and only want the depth on gold rings for the most part.

One of the perks of reverse discrimination hunting on the BBS units is the ability to flip back to disc and re-check a target's potential. The question I ask myself is- Does it sound deeper than disc can see for that given soils/sands minerals? If so, and it don't have iron traits in PP, then I dig regardless of not being able to hear it in disc. At some sites disc might have 12 to 14" in depth on stuff. At badly mineralized ones (one in particular) it was about 5" on a coin. That's the rule of thumb I use, to judge targets with reverse discrimination. Any deeper than I think disc can see, and if it's not sounding like iron traits in PP, then I'm digging.

The other thing I'm trying to contrast to decide of needing a Deeptech in my line up is just which model. Every single freq machine I've owned in my mineralized soils/sands above about 8khz got lousy depth and separation, and seemed to get even less depth on silver/copper coins. From what I've gleamed so far on the Deeptech units, seems the higher freq gold unit might go against that rule of thumb? If I hadn't read otherwise, I might be prone to automatically go for the lowest freq unit, but if the higher freq one can still punch deep in my soil/sands for both old coins and rings, yet provide two tones, then that might be a rule changer for me.

I need more input and advice on that. Primarily I'm an old coin hunter, but I do go for the gold on the beach often too. This is where my delema lies on the higher/lower freq Deeptech units, and also as said how they might contrast in depth ability to PP mode on my GT. If you could swing a video with PP mode on the GT in comparison that would help me greatly to make a decision.

If you do, be sure to ground balance in Track All Metal, then switch to Fixed and then PP, as a recent Email I got from Minelab says PP does use the all metal ground balance setting, despite the manual saying it is a form of all metal that doesn't feature a ground balance. Also told PP or Fixed will hold it's last setting when flipping to disc, which doesn't use a ground balance due to the unique way it ignores the ground signal, so that when you flip back to PP it will still have it's GB calibration that was set prior.

Thanks for any input and potential video comparisons you can make on this. If I could see any advantage I just might pull the trigger here, but I need to see both same site/same target/max volume and sensitivity in PP to judge final like for myself...

 

[Diggin-it]

I think the Deus should have been run in 18khz...it makes a difference for depth.

 

[Critterhunter]

Barry, thanks for the info. Getting interesting to see here what might the potential be. I'm mainly curious of the low freq Relic model and the two tone higher freq smart model, in how they compare on the depth of silver/copper coins and gold rings mainly in good/bad ground, and also in contrast to pin point mode on a GT on those targets.

The ability of PP to relate iron or other target traits along with modulated audio to judge depth is what even brings up the question for me in comparison depth wise in bad/good soil/sand to those two models. In some respects, if depth is comparable, then the abilities of PP might be somewhat similar for me to use in my decision.

IE: A Deeptech unit, or PP mode, being used for low non-ferrous sites but able to handle sites with high amounts of iron ferrous junk laying around, where deep old coins or rings might lurk. I'd use the Deeptech in private fields or at the beach or such, places like I use PP, where digging super deep holes being VDI blind in a sense won't be an issue.

If the two tone model can punch deeper than PP in mineralized soils/sands, then even if the relic model is deeper (?) on silver/copper coins, I'd probably opt for the two tone model here.

I realize the Deeptechs are going to cream a Minelab on fine gold (IE: thin chains or tiny earrings), but my tests show the GT will bang just as deep on the thinnest of gold rings as it does on a silver dime. Gold rings, when I'm not old coin hunting, are my primary interest when after gold, as that seems to me the most common type of gold lost at places I hunt.

I'd be interested in seeing the Excalibur in PP (full volume/full sensitivity, as it's possible to run PP at full sensitivity in 99.9% of all bad grounds) compared on targets with the Deeptech units. Although, in my comparisons of the Excalibur to a GT, both using the same 10" Tornado coil, the GT was about a half inch to an inch deeper (measured precisely).

Not sure why, but suspect it's either due to the Excalibur being said to be based on a prior Sovereign model, or perhaps it's that the Excalibur has Iron Mask ON turned off internally to insure a smoother ride in salts or minerals? Because when I turn Iron Mask OFF on my GT and precisely measured that it gave it about a half inch less depth than with it on.

While I'd still love to see an Excal in PP mode be contrasted, if anybody has a GT to compare that would be even more of interest to me in contemplating one of these units for certain sites and conditions.

Thanks again for all the videos and such, as these units seem reasonably priced and might offer a very powerful tool for certain situations and styles of hunting that I have in mind...

 

[Barry NY]

Do you own a Deus? 18 Khz gets you LESS depth not more...at least when I use it..

I think the Deus should have been run in 18khz...it makes a difference for depth.

 

[Diggin-it]

yes I do own the XP Deus. I get greater depth at 18khz. I have no reason to believe that with the endless tweaky ability of the Deus that the 10" targets could not have been easily detected.

 

[Barry NY]

Cool - good for you.

yes I do own the XP Deus. I get greater depth at 18khz. I have no reason to believe that with the endless tweaky ability of the Deus that the 10" targets could not have been easily detected.