Auto vs Manual

[INSAYN]

Before the masses tell me to use the "Search function" please hear me out.

I've had my CTX now for a few years, and have been primarily been using Manual as high as I could without it being too noisy.
My finds vs. foot prints are probably average for the area I am in, and the speed I cover ground (pretty slow).

Now, this fall season I plan to try and use Auto +3 over the areas that I have hammered to death in my normal Manual settings just to see if there is any marked difference in depth, or signal response.
And by hammered, I mean picked pretty clean to the point I only get one or two non ferrous targets at best in 1-3 hours. These areas I have been hammering are my local haunts that I have been milking for 15 years with my 3 different detectors (listed below in my siggy). The CTX has clearly been the bread winner though out of the three.

My question to those of you that have a few years of CTX 3030 experience under their belts now is this:

Have you switched from either Manual to Auto, or Auto to Manual full time after you feel you have thoroughly hammered your favorite areas, and if so, have you experienced any marked results from the switch?

In all honesty, I have never really let myself completely trust Auto over Manual to give me equal or better depth. I just usually stuck with Manual for whatever reason.

 

[Southwind]

I've had several seasons with the CTX and 6 with the E-Trac. My experience has been both Auto and Manual have a place depending on conditions. When I find a possible coin in Auto +3, which I use 90% of the time, and then check it with manual 28 sometimes it sounds better, sometimes it sounds worse. I do know when I hunt in Manual I get far more iron false signals than in Auto +3. I have hit a few coins in manual that Auto +3 was iffy, but very very few.

 

[amberjack]

yeah have used manual a bit and always switch back to auto +3 just runs smoother and at the same spot in manual same sens its not as stable, and for me the more stable a FBS the better, but that dosnt mean I am right just what works for me.

AJ

 

[KinTN]

I only have a bit over a year on my CTX but I will weigh in anyway. Take it for what its worth.

I think that there is a time and place for each and use both accordingly. My tendency is to use Auto+3 most of the time but switch to Manual in areas of sparse targets (eg, some beaches) or areas where I can force the Sens higher without too much falsing (rare around here).

I always use Auto to guide me in my initial Manual setting.
My tendency to use Auto+3 is probably due to most of my hunting being in moderate mineralization and areas of very high trash.

 

[Digger]

If the areas are free of ferrous targets, the mineralization levels are moderate and consistent, and the ground is smooth, I'd probably crank up the manual sensitivity and let it do its thing. Unfortunately, none of the places I hunt meet those criteria. As such, I stick with my tried and true.......Auto Sensitivity. By analyzing the responses from below the coil, and adjusting the detector "on the fly", I am confident I am getting the optimum performance from my CTX. Running with a positive offset, typically +3, I'm don't believe I'm missing anything that I would have found using Manual Sensitivity. And, had I been running Manual Sensitivity, I'd be spending half my time rechecking bogus audio responses. JMHO HH Randy

 

[lse450cc]

I found that auto setting works very well. And I found that if you use manual going higher than 24. Only seems to distort the Signal but I also run my Gain at 27.

 

[Eyeage]

I can't speak to the ctx as I don't receive it for a couple days. However, with my etrac I find that I have a much better hunt in auto +3. Can't wait to play around with the ctx settings.

 

[INSAYN]

Some of the responses got my point, or what I am asking here.

I'm not really looking for what works best for a guy on any given day, rather I am looking for responses on change up after using one sensitivity mode or the other.


So, if after a year or more of solid experience using primarily Auto and then switched to using mostly just Manual (or the other way around) in your normal "Go To" locations, did you see a marked improvement with depth, masked targets, or clearly missed targets with previous setup?

 

[Johnnyanglo]

"... did you see a marked improvement with depth, masked targets, or clearly missed targets with previous setup?"

Perhaps. In my experience Manual improves depth quite well and sensitivity to small, weak conductive targets, but does it find more targets? I don't think so. I find it annoying due to the falsing, even when adjusted to the least annoying setting you lose the depth advantage by dialing it back. So, you have to adjust your ears to constant falsing and try and pick out the non-ferrous signal, for as long as you can stand it. But, falsing does a good job of mimicking deep targets or masked targets and you should expect to have less success. I always end up going back to Auto+3.

 

[Kyseeker]

I'll speak up... I used to run in Auto +3 basically all the time. While swinging, I would always notice (as it seems) that I would rarely find ANY target any deeper than ~4 or ~5 inches on the depth indicator on the machine when I was running at around 16 auto. ? As a result, I started to do some test in a "test garden" that a friend of my has as well as air test. To my surprise, MY machine would not reach below 7" with a manual setting of 16!!! If I moved the manual to 20, it would reach the same target at 10 inches!! It makes sense that sensitivity would affect depth, I just did not realize it would that much on an air test. As far as the test garden, the deepest coin that is buried is around 6 inches. With the setting I have on my volume gain, the target was much more faint while at 16 as opposed to 20 on sensitivity. Just my observations... and opinion. I now run in manual. Hardly ever auto

HH

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

On the pre ETRAC FBS machines there wasn't any indication of actual sensitivity level when running in auto. Some of us did all sorts of experiments to try understand what was going on. The results were pretty much always that in AUTO the machine dials the sensitivity WAY down, especially in trashy areas. I always run my XS in manual.

I've had the CTX for a few years but haven't done the same kind of testing as I did with my XS; and the CTX does let you know what it thinks the right sensitivity should be.

But your testing sounds right. High sensitivity leads to deeper finds. Period. Big recent discussion on the Explorer forum with old time Pro Charles(UpstateNY) chiming in on this and other topics. I suspect the algorithm are for AUTO depth control is fairly similar across the years and different FBS detectors and that it always sacrifices depth for stability. Apparently in AUTO the machine adjusts the sensitivities of some receive frequencies higher or lower than other frequencies depending on conditions, while in manual all receive frequencies are set to the same level. Whether this makes any difference in real life I don't know.

I do know that there have been times that I've tried AUTO and had a wonderfully stable threshold and hardly any noise or falsing, but didn't find anything. Then I went back over the same area in Manual at a much higher setting than the machine recommended; it beeped and grunted and was noisy but I ended up with several good finds.

Chris

 

[sube]

On the pre ETRAC FBS machines there wasn't any indication of actual sensitivity level when running in auto. Some of us did all sorts of experiments to try understand what was going on. The results were pretty much always that in AUTO the machine dials the sensitivity WAY down, especially in trashy areas. I always run my XS in manual.

I've had the CTX for a few years but haven't done the same kind of testing as I did with my XS; and the CTX does let you know what it thinks the right sensitivity should be.

But your testing sounds right. High sensitivity leads to deeper finds. Period. Big recent discussion on the Explorer forum with old time Pro Charles(UpstateNY) chiming in on this and other topics. I suspect the algorithm are for AUTO depth control is fairly similar across the years and different FBS detectors and that it always sacrifices depth for stability. Apparently in AUTO the machine adjusts the sensitivities of some receive frequencies higher or lower than other frequencies depending on conditions, while in manual all receive frequencies are set to the same level. Whether this makes any difference in real life I don't know.

I do know that there have been times that I've tried AUTO and had a wonderfully stable threshold and hardly any noise or falsing, but didn't find anything. Then I went back over the same area in Manual at a much higher setting than the machine recommended; it beeped and grunted and was noisy but I ended up with several good finds.

Chris

I agree with Chris
Once you understand falsing the beeping grunts and chirping you will learn to pick out the good from the bad not all the time but well come easier as you put in the hours . So with that said I will say manual is deeper than auto but noisier than auto . sube

 

[INSAYN]

I agree with Chris/Sube as well.

I'm am pretty tuned to the beeps and squeaks of using Manual, as this is what I have been using 90% of the time I've owned my CTX (2.5-3 years now, I think).

I will be giving Auto +3 a good solid season in a few of my areas that I have HAMMERED to death in Manual, just to see if anything exciting comes of it.
If targets are really really few and far between in Manual, I probably don't have much to lose using Auto +3, right?

New or still producing areas, I will most likely keep using Manual as this is what I am used to and trust.

 

[Bryan V]

For those of you that are using manual, how are you determining what number to set your machine at?
Can you run the CTX hotter on different target separation modes? For example Ground Coin over Ferrous Coin?

I haven't had my CTX long and haven't ventured out of Auto +3 except when I first got it one time. Now that I have some hours on my machine
I need to go back and try manual out. I remember it was way to sparky at the time and I had to put it back on Auto.

 

[Paulie]

Based on the soil mineralization (low-medium) of my area that I hunt in, I know the following works for me.
My buddy and I were out MD'ing at one of our spots, and both running Auto +2. Both CTX's were running a different sensitivity, while only 10' away from each other, but no real thought was given to this at the time. His was reading 28-18 and mine was running 21-18. We were using the exact same stock coil, program/mode/and settings as well. Anyhow, my buddy had located this target, and called me over to verify the depth, as well as the Fe/Co numbers. I swung the coil over the target, and got no audio at all, and only a visual on the display but how many times do we go metal detecting, and look at the screen 100% of the time...I know I don't EVER, UNTIL I get an audio response. So, I set my sensitivity to manual 28, to match his 28 he was showing on his display. I swung the coil over the target again, and almost blew my ears off, and the depth of the target was 11" !!
So I got home that day, frustrated at how many targets I may have missed, because I was running in Auto +2. I went to my test garden, and proceeded with a series of experiments. I found that if the auto sensitivity is below 22, targets from 6" down get missed. When I went to manual sensitivity, and set it to 23, the target signals gave a good audio response up to 6" & 7" but diminished in relation to the targets depth after 7" and responded very faintly at best.
However, those "faint" audio signals would have been enough though to stop me in my tracks, and force me to look at the display, and swing over the target again. When I set the sensitivity to 25, even the targets at 12" gave a good solid audio signal in both directions, and the Fe/Co numbers were more consistent! I ran this experiment up to 30 sensitivity, but could not stand the chatter, and false signals I was getting! I worked the CTX until I found what I call the "optimal range" and that was between 24 and 27.
So, I went out the next day, to take my findings into the field and put them to the test. I ran my sensitivity in manual at 26. I was able to pull 4 silvers from 4 different areas of the field, ranging in depths from 9" to 12"!! To me, that was the proof I needed, and from that moment forward I ran my CTX in manual sensitivity! Now I am not saying this applies to all CTX's across the world!
Andy Sabisch, could have not stressed it more (during his bootcamp), the importance of having a test garden, and to put the CTX to work in that garden, to see what settings work best! I am glad that I did take Andy's advice, and I strongly suggest to others, to do the same! You may find your CTX works perfectly fine in Auto Sens, while working your test garden, or you may find that you need to bump your sensitivity up, in order to gain depth in the soil conditions for your area.

 

[jas415]

Paulie, your comments are the almost exact same as mine! I have had my CTX for over 3 years and have dug almost 21,000 cons with it and after the first 3 months I went to manual at about 25-27 and never looked back. I know some guys find a lot more silver, but I have almost 600 silver coins in that 3 years. I hunt almost exclusively on demolition lots and they are TRASHY. I use the small 6" coil about 90% of the time and yes it is chatty at times but it will find the coins. It will 'find' coins masked by iron at depth. And even at 25-27 sense it will not go below about 8" with the small coil. A week ago, I switched back to the big stock coil and to Auto +3, to attempt to discover any change or system that I could improve on, and I get the strong feeling I am missing targets at depth. But, like everyone says, 'personal preference'. I hunt with zero disc, 4 tone combined with the nickel bin set high, and I use the 'stock Coin' pattern as a backup. IMHO, as some others posted, figure out what works for you, and use it. What I use may not work for others as the 'chatty' noise doesn't seem to bother me, but the silence does.

 

[Bryan V]

Ok you guys got me ready to head out and crank it up.
Hope I can get it to run. I have fairly hot ground around here.
The highest I've seen my CTX run is 21 while running at Auto +3 but it usually runs 18-19.
Most of my older coins have been in the 5-6 inch range although I did pull my first seated dime the other day
With a reading of 7" which it was every bit of if not more. Don't know how much deeper I can get in my ground but I sure would like to find out.
Thanks

 

[glenn3-88]

Ditto""""""on everything. I have had mine only since Aug. 1 of this year. I have tried them both. There are 2 parks in town that "never" have been hunted
with a metal detector. I know the Parks & Rec. Manager and he has allowed me exclusive hunting rights to these parks. Those 2 parks are LOADED with
coins but both parks were built in modern times around the mid 1970's.

First of all, where I live, the only ground you will find that is mineralized is where someone spilled a bag of fertilizer. Honestly! Just this week I decided I would
try an experiment with the Auto +3 because I hear so many positive comments about it on here. My sensitivity jumped from where I normally run it at 12 to 18 on
average (depending on where the machine is telling me in manual I should be running it) all the way up to 27 and it stayed there. Problem was, it was silent. I
went back and marked off a 10 x 10 square and tried it again. Again in Auto +3 NOTHING. I then went back to my normal setting which is usually at or 2 numbers
above what the machine is telling me I should be running it in manual. I then dug 18 holes. 4 dimes, 2 quarters, 1 silver charm at 12 to 13", and the rest were pennies.
((Again I want to emphasize that #1 this is sandy non-mineralized soil & #2 I did not get not one hit of ANY kind in Auto +3)) I truly believe that the stronger you run
the sensitivity to get depth the more you loose in sensitivity to small objects at shallow depths.

BEFORE you go blowing me out of the water here, I also found this to be true at the beach Monday of this week. The stronger I ran the sensitivity there the less
hits I got and I could run it all the way up to 30 on Sensitivity, 30 on volume gain, and 30 on threshold. This with absolutely no chatter or feedback only when I hit
a pile and I mean pile of small chips of rusted iron. After I backed the sensitivity down to what the machine was telling me and added 2 to 3 above that then I
started finding things.

((NOW IN MY IGNORANT WORLD LET'S GET REAL)) Due to the way our website is set up and the reality that there is a reason for it, I don't know where you
all are hunting. My experience at one location and one only, the school house near my house was built on a hill many many years ago and I find mostly old coins
there at 7 to 9" in RED CLAY.........My sensitivity indicator is sometimes all the way down to 9. If it stays there I ground balance. I keep finding old coins at shallow
depths as clay is not going to let them sink.

In conclusion, my take on this is the same as many are telling you on here. Try it. See which works best for you on your ground. But, watch what the machine is
telling you in green. That number is being derived from "ALL 28 CHANNELS" and it don't lie. There is a reason the engineers decided to include that number on
there for you and it is for you to get the most out of your machine as you possibly can. Don't take my word or anyone else's on here. Only you can determine
which is best ON YOUR GROUND.

 

[amberjack]

will see if I can stand the noise chatter .

sort of thought the reason for spending so much cash was so I don't have to listen to chatter.

AJ

 

[Paulie]

Some real good feedback here gents! Good to read that most of our experiences are very similar, especially that 25-27 sensitivity is working well & for some its hitting "home runs"!!