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Colonial Silver.. Oldest Coin! Help Identify :nerd:

A

AngelicStorm

New member
So I have done a good bit of research trying to identify a coin I found yesterday. This site right here helped me a good bit.... http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinText/Sp-milled.2.html I am thinking it is 1 Reale since I measured it being approximately 21 mm across or about the size of a dime, but paper thin.
This is the oldest "identified as" coin I have found! Until yesterday it had been an 1829 Half Dime. It is a reale or half reale, my first one. I cannot seem to be able to correctly identify the date or the type it is. You can make out certain patterns and letters just enough to be sure what type of coin it is though.
Here are a few of pictures of it so any help would be greatly appreciated....

IMG_0021_zps41bef0a1.jpg


Here you can see a two at the end of the date. The camera doesn't see what I can see in person which is the number next to the two. There appears to be an 0 or number with a rounded edge to the southeast which leads me to believe it could be either 1762, 1782 "Not leaning with this", 1792, or 1802. I just don't know! You can also see a faint outline of the head. It would be very nice to know the exact date of the oldest coin I have found. :wacko:


IMG_0020_zpsb00223fa.jpg


Again, the same side of the coin but turned in a different angle so you guys can see one of the main things that identifies this coin. In person you can see an "IA" right before the 2. The camera doesn't do a good job of capturing the I though. The reason why that part is important is because that would be the end of the word Gratia. You can also see part of the milled edge here.

IMG_0022_zps7cb95b27.jpg


Here I did a side by side comparison of this coin and a silver roosevelt dime. You can clearly see it is a good bit thinner than the roosevelt. It is paper thin.

Notes: This was found at an big old 1900 house about two feet from the sidewalk right near Main Street. It rang in at a solid 12:38. I did not take pictures of the back since the identifiers are so faint only the eye or maybe a microscope can see them which reminds me I might need to invest in one of those to make identifying things a little easier. I can see on the back "ET" and the dot right before it with one proportionately across from it. above the dot across from ET it looks like I can see a 1 or something like that.

Thanks for looking and any information you guys can give me on this coin or more similar varieties.
 
looking closer at these pictures, especially the first one, it is looking very much like a 7 beside that 2 because of the point which would mean 1772! I would still like other people's input on this though.
 
Nice find and good work on the identification. I don't have much to add from what I can see on the photos. I may try to take a couple with the coin lying flat and a flashlight shining onto it from the same flat surface. It may help to bring out some more detail and focus the picture a bit better.
 
I can try, but I think maybe that is the best. Maybe not though. The camera I am using is a Canon with high resolution settings so it is a camera capable of showing almost every bit of detail. There are things such as it not showing the ET at the back and the IA plus some other things as clearly as what you can see in person. I can try though.
 
Resolution doesn't matter if you cant hold the camera still, or half the coin is in a shadow. Take the coin outside during the day in the shade tomorrow, use a tripod or rest your arms on something that will allow you to hold the camera still if you do not have IS, make sure your ISO is low, and get some good pics.
 
Well half of it is in shadow because I wanted people to see the area of interest. Also the area in shadow doesn't even have much more detail than what you see in the first picture or in person. I took these pictures perfectly still so there is no motion issues. Maybe some sunlight will help bring out some more detail though such as the backside. It is interesting you bring up the ISO. Maybe that could help a bit. Also IS is available along with Powered IS and set to continuous.
 
If it's about the same diameter as a dime but much thinner, it is likely a 1/2 reale. I found one with a Mexico City mint mark and dated 1773 a few years ago. Since there is not much detaiL, you might weigh it. A 1/2 reale weighed 1.69 grams when minted. Mine is not as worn as your coin and weighs 1.5 grams.
 
C&RHunter said:
If it's about the same diameter as a dime but much thinner, it is likely a 1/2 reale. I found one with a Mexico City mint mark and dated 1773 a few years ago. Since there is not much detaiL, you might weigh it. A 1/2 reale weighed 1.69 grams when minted. Mine is not as worn as your coin and weighs 1.5 grams.
Click to expand...

It's a shame it is in such roughed up shape but I am glad it is what it is. That needs to be another thing on my bucket list.... A digital scale. I will take this to the jewelry shop to weigh it then. Does this site line up with what you have? http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinText/Sp-milled.1.html
The only thing getting me is that that one says it is 17.7 mm and weighs 1.65 grams. The one I have is 21 mm. Maybe there are more varieties since I assume your avatar is the one you found and that site does not show that one. The back hair does look similar in that the outline in the pics I put up take on a similar shape.
 
Yes, that avatar is the 1773 1/2 reale that I found. I have an 1810 and an 1773 1/2 Reale. They both, for all practical purposes, are the same size. I measured both with micrometer calipers and they measured an average of .671 inches dia. X 25.4 mm/inch = 17.04 mm (a dime measured .703" or 17.86). If yours is 21mm, it is considerably bigger in dia. than a dime, but some smaller than a quarter. I have a world coin book covering 1801-1900. It puts the weight of the 1810 as 1.69 grams. Both of mine are worn and weigh 1.5 grams. I air scanned both of my 1/2 reales and they registered 11-12/38.
 
Ahh, so basically my method of measuring the diameter may have been off. Your numbers seem to stand true to what I can see comparing the two side-by-side. I can't help but take note of the similarities in numbers too. It seems a lot of very small silver hits in the mid to upper 12-30 range because the half dime I found was the same and some small silver jewelry. Here is a comparison picture....

IMG_0033_zpsf2pbfskq.jpg


They seem to be the exact same size or the dime has just a sliiightly larger diameter. More inline with what you said. If I go ahead and weigh it then things will be more clear.
 
Thanks, even if it is in bad shape, it is nice to have such a rarity and piece of history. Congrats on your two 1/2 reales too. The one in your avatar looks great. I probably will be paying the jewelry store a visit tomorrow or later today about this and some other rings and gems that need testing anyway.
 
Okay, I got it weighed and it came out to be 1.4 grams. I am thinking the .1 gram difference maybe from it being considerably more worn and the small hole it has. So 1/2 reale it is.
 
Great find!

After taking the image and running it thru some imaging I believe you have an 1822 1/2 reale. The last two digits are 22, with identical tops and the downward to the left marks and a faint base for the left 2, and the top of the next leftmost number cannot be a 7 as it is clearly rounded and is almost a full circle. So, an 8, so I conclude 1822 1/2 Reale.

There are several online imaging sites. Blow up, anti noise, enhance, lighting, etc..

I dug a 1799 1/2 Reale in downtown Houston about 20 years ago with a square hole in it. Very worn but much more detail with clear dates and back.
 
Okay, I have been researching this. After putting some pictures into GIMP and doing some comparisons along with some enhancements, I can conclude from what I understand this is a Charles IV or Carolus Colonial Spanish 1/2 Reale that has to be dated 1802 due to the apparent 8 on the coin. They were minted from 1772-1808. The coin's design is not in agreement with the varieties that were around in 1822 because of the apparent C and faded A that is after the date. The ones struck 1809+ had the same design on the reverse of the coins but instead of Carolus they read Ferdin on the obverse.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here is a detailed picture of everything.....

1802%20Half%20Reale_zps7tyetnog.jpg


It took me a little bit to do this, but it was interesting and fun for me to dive in this and research it. Now I know a few new things about these coins. :thumbup:

A few of my sources: http://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins?main_coin=2334
http://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins?main_coin=12584
http://www.coinfactswiki.com/wiki/Mexican_colonial_coinage%2C_1536-1822

jas415 said:
Great find!

After taking the image and running it thru some imaging I believe you have an 1822 1/2 reale. The last two digits are 22, with identical tops and the downward to the left marks and a faint base for the left 2, and the top of the next leftmost number cannot be a 7 as it is clearly rounded and is almost a full circle. So, an 8, so I conclude 1822 1/2 Reale.

There are several online imaging sites. Blow up, anti noise, enhance, lighting, etc..

I dug a 1799 1/2 Reale in downtown Houston about 20 years ago with a square hole in it. Very worn but much more detail with clear dates and back.
Click to expand...

This is what motivated me enough to do this. :lol:
I bet you were not expecting to find that 1/2 Reale in the middle of Houston were you?

Thanks guys.
 
Nice ID you got there! For my 1776 half reale i was lucky to have one with awesome details.
 
Yeah, it seems to be pretty rare to find these in great shape. Congrats man. I'm just glad I was able to identify mine although it may not be worth very much besides the silver.
 
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