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Comments regarding "Waterproof" to 10 feet

Tony

Member
Based on a 3m/10foot rating, I don't think this detector is really designed for serious submersion but more for the rainy conditions or the odd dunk in the water.

It would be a brave/foolish person to use it regularly in the surf ??

I can't see it replacing the Excalibur even as a shallow water unit.

Happy to hear other views.

Tony.
 
i think your right Tony its a polite way of saying you can use it in the rain.

FBS will never be deeper than BBS if you read Bruce Candy's blog on detector tech on the minelab site.

i think they have tried to please everyone with this machine and that is never possible and they went a bit overboard.

BP
 
Thanks BP,

I guess they will expand on this area when the user manual comes out.

T
 
This is my way of thinking too with the AT-Pro plus I don't go under water very well myself. At least I don't leak!
 
Tony said:
Based on a 3m/10foot rating, I don't think this detector is really designed for serious submersion but more for the rainy conditions or the odd dunk in the water.

It would be a brave/foolish person to use it regularly in the surf ??

I can't see it replacing the Excalibur even as a shallow water unit.

Happy to hear other views.

Tony.

If they wanted to make it rain resistant, or say for use in the surf, I think they would have stated that explicitly. Think of this, if they say the before mentioned and someone takes it 8ft or so deep and the unit leaks, there is no warranty. And, I would imagine they could build the unit with seals that give at a certain pressure so they would know. So, users would be out the money. On the other hand...

If Minelab says it's safe to 10ft deep, then the unit most certainly is good to that depth and a bit more for safety's sake (they ALWAYS over engineer things according to specs to be safe. This is true mechanically and for the most part electronically). If the unit fails at up to the stated depth, we will start to see that on the forums and Minelab would have to honor the warranty. Not a good business decision making a unit that might fail at what it was said to do.
Albert
 
.[/quote]

If Minelab says it's safe to 10ft deep, then the unit most certainly is good to that depth and a bit more for safety's sake (they ALWAYS over engineer things according to specs to be safe. This is true mechanically and for the most part electronically). If the unit fails at up to the stated depth, we will start to see that on the forums and Minelab would have to honor the warranty. Not a good business decision making a unit that might fail at what it was said to do.
Albert[/quote]

Great post! Minelab and it's team make great quality stuff. I won't hesitate a bit taking mine in the water.
 
This new detector better have seals that can handle MUCH more than the stated water depth. Being "waterprrof to 10 feet" means it can only keep out 4.4 psi of water pressure. That is the problem with the original AT-Pros. a hard wave causing rapid movement underwater will put a lot more then 4.4 psi on the detector. This is the same reason "waterproof" watches that werent made for scuba tell you not to press buttons or anything else because the pressure change can allow water inside.
 
Blank Planet said:
FBS will never be deeper than BBS if you read Bruce Candy's blog on detector tech on the minelab site.

Having owned three top Minelabs and now a GT I tend to agree with that opinion in my soil. I'm sure I'm totally off base and wrong and it all depends on your soil but my pet theory is that the lower 1.5 to 25khz of BBS frequencies are reflecting or "glaring" off my minerals less in the ground matrix, as they say the higher frequencies tend to in general have more problems with penetrating some minerals. A friend who is using a top Minelab and Pro Coil has been having me check his undug targets before digging. Thus far I've been able to easily see any super deeper or severly masked coins with the 12x10 on my GT that he has had me check...And just as well as his machine has from us comparing notes on the target quality. I believe the 12x10 is helping the GT keep up in terms of depth and separation with the excellent abilities in those respects of the Pro Coil and the faster processor of his machine. Separation's real weapon is just how sharp the detection field is. A slow machine can do just as well as a fast machine so long as you keep your sweep speed slow. If the coil can't see the coin while also not lighting up nearby trash than no amount of processing can make up for that. The coil's field in effect "bursts" with the first target it hits and can't reach the deeper coin below it. That's why I feel these Minelab's using the Pro Coil or a 12x10 are able to "unmask" coins that even the fastest machines on the market are missing.

Really, these FBS and BBS machines are so maxed out in terms of depth when taking in the laws of physics concerncing VLF technology that I think any of them (Xcal, GT, SE Pro, Etrac, Old Explorers) will beat the others out in depth based on who's using the bigger coil. Of course there are limits to gains in coil size increases showing more depth, and that depends on how mineralized your soil is. In my soil the 15x12 got less depth than my stock 10" coil, but the 12x10 does get deeper....So I would assume for my soil that the coil size limit to show gains in depth is about 12 or 13" in coil size. Any bigger than that and the target gets washed out or degraded by the soil matrix the detector is also taking in along with the target's signal. Even though I could run the 15x12 at very high sensitivity settings it tended to give it's better deep target signal with sensitivity set much lower than what was max stable. I believe that's due to running the coil too "hot" sucking in too much ground signal or "glare" and thus the target gets washed away or degraded by that.

Anyway, I really do believe that...That it's the coil on these FBS and BBS machines that makes the difference. Otherwise would have they bothered with the expense and time to manufacturer the 11" Pro Coil and not just use the old 10" coils? Besides weight, the Pro Coil is a big step up in separation and depth over the older coils. That's where much of the gain in those aspects is coming from IMHO.

It appears the new Minelab is using an 11" Pro Coil. For that reason I doubt it has any more depth than the current models using the Pro Coil, unless somehow they are generating a stronger voltage (maybe one of the reasons for the big battery besides GPS being power hungry?) to the TX winding in the coil to create a bigger field. Only problem with that is that it has issues with ground glare and is why it's fixed at a certain strength and can't be raised on most detectors. There is an amp out for the Sovereign that puts more voltage to the coil to force it deeper, but many people said they couldn't use it in their even moderately mineralized soil because of the ground glare it created.
 
Waterprood is waterproof. Otherwise it's water resistant. If I were to get one I would have it underwater for hours at some of my sites.
 
The MineLab Pi mine detector is rated the same depth as the new CTX 3m/10 ft rating, That's a military detector so it's got to be built to operate at least in shallow water and further down if necessary.

I've never tried a Minelab Pi Mine detector but do have a Garrett Pi mine detector rated with the same depth ratings as the Minelab Pi mine detector and it has no leaky issues with the detector completely underwater wading in fresh water for long periods sometimes 1-2 hours each dip.

The Excalibur is a fine detector but for fresh water in central parts of California the mineralizition is tough on BBS, Both the Sovereign and Excalibur fail due to masking from the harsh black sand.

The Explorer has a slight advantage over BBS in these fresh water conditions and experiences less masking from the harsh lake sand, Our fresh water lakes/rivers are tougher than ocean wet sand.

So yes, I do feel the CTX will have an advantage over an Excalibur for water detecting. That may not be the case for other parts of the globe but it is for California's central valley on up to gold country.

Paul (Ca)
 
On the other hand, the machine might very well be able to handle rougher ground matrixs than the current Minelabs can. If that's true then it will see stuff deeper in certain, but probably rare, soil types. In most common to heavy mineralized soils the current machines should be able to match it in depth no problem if that's the case.
 
Old California said:
The Excalibur is a fine detector but for fresh water in central parts of California the mineralizition is tough on BBS, Both the Sovereign and Excalibur fail due to masking from the harsh black sand.

The Explorer has a slight advantage over BBS in these fresh water conditions and experiences less masking from the harsh lake sand, Our fresh water lakes/rivers are tougher than ocean wet sand.

Guess it depends on what soil likes what frequencies, because I can show you quotes from some guys who say their FBS machines are more unstable and false more on their beaches than their BBS machines do. I just dug a bunch of those quotes up from threads doing a search for somebody in another thread that had a question on that.
 
I agree with what your saying and my comment is based on California harsh fresh water sand not beach sand. Of course as stated above other parts of the globe would be different.

Our central part of California fresh water on up too the gold country is tough on BBS, the CTX may be the fresh water detector California water hunters are needing to help enhance gold jewerly finds.

Paul (Ca)
 
I personally don't feel it would handle hunting even in shallow shoreline conditions here in Hawaii. To 10 ft just sounds like one hard wave and it's all over. IMHO.
 
Please don't hijack threads that are specific to a topic.
I'm not saying your posts are not valuable but thread hijacks are a pain in the @ss.

Tony.

Critterhunter said:
Blank Planet said:
FBS will never be deeper than BBS if you read Bruce Candy's blog on detector tech on the minelab site.

Having owned three top Minelabs and now a GT I tend to agree with that opinion in my soil. I'm sure I'm totally off base and wrong and it all depends on your soil but my pet theory is that the lower 1.5 to 25khz of BBS frequencies are reflecting or "glaring" off my minerals less in the ground matrix, as they say the higher frequencies tend to in general have more problems with penetrating some minerals. A friend who is using a top Minelab and Pro Coil has been having me check his undug targets before digging. Thus far I've been able to easily see any super deeper or severly masked coins with the 12x10 on my GT that he has had me check...And just as well as his machine has from us comparing notes on the target quality. I believe the 12x10 is helping the GT keep up in terms of depth and separation with the excellent abilities in those respects of the Pro Coil and the faster processor of his machine. Separation's real weapon is just how sharp the detection field is. A slow machine can do just as well as a fast machine so long as you keep your sweep speed slow. If the coil can't see the coin while also not lighting up nearby trash than no amount of processing can make up for that. The coil's field in effect "bursts" with the first target it hits and can't reach the deeper coin below it. That's why I feel these Minelab's using the Pro Coil or a 12x10 are able to "unmask" coins that even the fastest machines on the market are missing.

Really, these FBS and BBS machines are so maxed out in terms of depth when taking in the laws of physics concerncing VLF technology that I think any of them (Xcal, GT, SE Pro, Etrac, Old Explorers) will beat the others out in depth based on who's using the bigger coil. Of course there are limits to gains in coil size increases showing more depth, and that depends on how mineralized your soil is. In my soil the 15x12 got less depth than my stock 10" coil, but the 12x10 does get deeper....So I would assume for my soil that the coil size limit to show gains in depth is about 12 or 13" in coil size. Any bigger than that and the target gets washed out or degraded by the soil matrix the detector is also taking in along with the target's signal. Even though I could run the 15x12 at very high sensitivity settings it tended to give it's better deep target signal with sensitivity set much lower than what was max stable. I believe that's due to running the coil too "hot" sucking in too much ground signal or "glare" and thus the target gets washed away or degraded by that.

Anyway, I really do believe that...That it's the coil on these FBS and BBS machines that makes the difference. Otherwise would have they bothered with the expense and time to manufacturer the 11" Pro Coil and not just use the old 10" coils? Besides weight, the Pro Coil is a big step up in separation and depth over the older coils. That's where much of the gain in those aspects is coming from IMHO.

It appears the new Minelab is using an 11" Pro Coil. For that reason I doubt it has any more depth than the current models using the Pro Coil, unless somehow they are generating a stronger voltage (maybe one of the reasons for the big battery besides GPS being power hungry?) to the TX winding in the coil to create a bigger field. Only problem with that is that it has issues with ground glare and is why it's fixed at a certain strength and can't be raised on most detectors. There is an amp out for the Sovereign that puts more voltage to the coil to force it deeper, but many people said they couldn't use it in their even moderately mineralized soil because of the ground glare it created.
 
I guess I'm not understanding the waterproof comments. My assumption was that if a unit is waterproof to 10 feet it was based on the pressure that is created at that depth. I don't see how going in water a lot, or getting hit by a wave would enter the machine? Is the force of getting hit by a wave greater than the pressure at 10 feet?? If so, then I will be doing small ponds lol.
 
Somebody said I think that the PSI at 10 feet is I think 4.4PSI or something, and that machines rated for that much pressure they have used have leaked due to waves while waiding that can easily reach or exceed that much pressure. I believe he said the AT Pro had a recall on the gaskets for that reason because people waiding were getting leaks just due to wave pressure.
 
Thanks for the info. That would not be any good for anyone doing a lot of beach water hunting. I guess it was never meant to replace a water machine but is just what I need hunting in the rain. Not to mention, for once in my life, my machine will have a bath after each relic hunt :clapping:
 
The heavier machine should be able to handle wading with no issues. If you figure you are wading up to your chest, if the detector settled on the bottom it would only be 4' down.

I would hope they don't want to get a flood of these things back that are leaking which would explode into online complaints right away which would kill sales.

I just wonder how a company can determine if it was submerged to say 11' and leaked?

That is my only concern that they would stand behind something that leaked?
 
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