Ctx O-ring sealing situation discussion with Minelab

[JamesBondaka]

As promised...I talked with Minelab about the potential problems and remedies to keeping the ctx 3030 water tight.

First, was the issue of the O ring seal....or as I call it, D-ring. As reported by Guvner.....of course clean clean clean is the main word. Minelab says they have done lots of testing on this issue in the last year plus. Minelab maintains that IF the O-ring is "clean" and properly seated....it WILL seal the unit to 10 feet. You should take extra care to remove ANY foreign matter attached to and/or inside the seal, battery case, lip etc. This naturally is crucial to a proper seal. NO sand, dust, hair, dirt.....nothing!

Second, be very careful or just re-frame from doing any battery change out in the field....especially on the beach. It leaves too many possibilities to compromise the sealing area. A bit of sand or other has a better chance of "sneaking" in the battery compartment when your detecting out wherever...rather the cleaner environment of indoor areas. The light is better too for catching area debris that should not be there.

Third, silicone is not recommended for one reason and one reason only. IF you don't clean the gasket, battery and/or battery compartment when using silicone...if will become worst for attracting lots sand, dirt hair etc. IF you meticulously clean all the areas mentioned then the use of silicone will help. Again, only if you make those areas....."laboratory clean".

Forth, Minelab has been tested other possibilities for sealing the ctx. They have tried using 2 O-rings matched together as I suggested to them. They concluded that the 2 O- rings gets "bunched up" and makes the situation even worse....most of the time. There are other possibilities and they continue to do research but at this time....no NEW O-ring upgrades are planned to be released. Minelab spent a lot of money on creating the ctx 3030 and even though I personally think it would be a good idea to change the sealing properties of the battery chamber...I have to trust that they know what they are doing.....and they have the warranty in place to back it up...as they did with my first detector.

In sum,,,, Minelab says keep the ctx very clean and ONLY take off the battery at home(if possible) and "air out" the battery chamber and your unit should be good to go.

 

[DukeOBass]

They already have a proven waterproof battery pack on the Excalibur. Why in the world they would deviate from that and create a scenario where everything has to be "just so" in order to create a waterproof seal is just dumb. Metal detecting is never "laboratory clean" and to suggest that you have to adhere to that type of situation, in light of the huge cost of this "poorly" design machine is just making excuses. I have been metal detecting for 7 year and in a few months with this thing I find myself with tendonitis. The E-trac is a superior design. The CTX frame is a huge step backward in my opinion.

 

[DE-Digger]

n/t

 

[JamesBondaka]

Metal detecting is never "laboratory clean" and to suggest that you have to adhere to that type of situation, in light of the huge cost of this "poorly" design machine is just making excuses.

"Laboratory clean" was my words and not Minelabs. This is what "I" would do under the circumstances to help insure a good seal. Right or wrong...its what we have to work with at this time.

 

[INSAYN]

I don't see why a CTX battery would need to be changed on the beach, or out in the field for that matter.
My battery runs an easy 8-10 hours, maybe more before a charge is needed. This is with the backlight on and maxed out.

Who metal detects that long in one day?

Have it fully charged before leaving the house, run it till it dies, and then call it a day. Problem solved.

 

[JamesBondaka]

I don't see why a CTX battery would need to be changed on the beach, or out in the field for that matter.
My battery runs an easy 8-10 hours, maybe more before a charge is needed. This is with the backlight on and maxed out.

Who metal detects that long in one day?

Have it fully charged before leaving the house, run it till it dies, and then call it a day. Problem solved. [/quote)

Thats what I would do as well...but I suppose...you never know when I might need another battery(AA pack) on a longer than normal hunt. Ive been on one like that...I look forward to another.!

 

[OldBeechnut]

Why not have a recharging port on the battery, that way only in emergency's would one need to pull the battery, A easy tooling redesign and only to the battery only.

 

[BH_Landstar_]

Why not have a recharging port on the battery, that way only in emergency's would one need to pull the battery, A easy tooling redesign and only to the battery only.

That would require the port on the battery being water tight, again, an option that's going to cost $$'s to design.

 

[INSAYN]

Again, I just don't see myself ever detecting for 8+ hours in water, where a solid seal would need to be maintained at all times.
I have done 3 hours straight with the CTX submerged the entire time, and was pretty water logged myself needing to get out and dry out.


The way I would have designed the battery seal, would be to have a primary seal that is more pronounced be around where the battery terminals are.
This could be a much bigger O-ring that could be field cleaned and not in as much risk as the current tiny oring.

Then the current "D" oring would be to keep sand and dirt out, and if super clean, water too.

 

[OldBeechnut]

That would require the port on the battery being water tight, again, an option that's going to cost $$'s to design.

[size=large]I do agree they have a hard time with spending the $$$

My opinion.......A very easy thing to do, ..............AFTER thinking about no port is required, just a IP68/69 Bulkhead connector.
I'm working on a endcap for switching out coils on the Excalibur, the same bulkhead connector could be used that I'm considering using.

It's IP68/69 even when not in use............And total cost would be less the 36.oo a machine and that is 2 mating connectors one for the charger side, one for the battery[/size]

 

[glasartisan]

I use my CTX in the water almost exclusively and never yet had a problem with water leaks. I get home after a long day sometimes 12 plus hours in the lakes. I unsnap the 2 straps and I can just see the sand and sediment clinging to the inner part of the battery cover and d-ring. I pull the d-ring out and run it under fresh water to get all the grit off. That is very important. Then I modify a dampen Q-tip and get it down into the crevice where the d-ring will mate and also on the narrow edge of the battery also.I dry off the d-ring with a towel making sure there is no lint left from the towel. Then I run a dry Q-tip on the surfaces where the d-ring will lay until it comes out clean. I will be trying this coming season the air in the can that you would use on computers. A controlled blast of air Im sure would give you the immaculate conditions that are needed along with a fresh water d-ring rinse for both d-ring and matting surfaces. The can of air might come in handy if you are out in the field and you have to change out the CTX battery for what ever reason. Good luck guys, Steve

 

[OldBeechnut]

I use my CTX in the water almost exclusively and never yet had a problem with water leaks. I get home after a long day sometimes 12 plus hours in the lakes. I unsnap the 2 straps and I can just see the sand and sediment clinging to the inner part of the battery cover and d-ring. I pull the d-ring out and run it under fresh water to get all the grit off. That is very important. Then I modify a dampen Q-tip and get it down into the crevice where the d-ring will mate and also on the narrow edge of the battery also.I dry off the d-ring with a towel making sure there is no lint left from the towel. Then I run a dry Q-tip on the surfaces where the d-ring will lay until it comes out clean. I will be trying this coming season the air in the can that you would use on computers. A controlled blast of air Im sure would give you the immaculate conditions that are needed along with a fresh water d-ring rinse for both d-ring and matting surfaces. The can of air might come in handy if you are out in the field and you have to change out the CTX battery for what ever reason. Good luck guys, Steve

I think this is great advice, best done at home.

 

[Roland58]

The old valve cover gaskets on the 70's model VW's used to leak badly, until some genius came up with a gasket that was slightly thicker than the stock OEM gasket...problem solved. Since the valve covers were held on with a spring clip, it was not much different than the battery arrangement. Why not just make a seal (D-ring) slightly thicker and solve the problem. These, too, would, of course, need to be clean......any dirty seal is going to leak!

 

[JamesBondaka]

The old valve cover gaskets on the 70's model VW's used to leak badly, until some genius came up with a gasket that was slightly thicker than the stock OEM gasket...problem solved. Since the valve covers were held on with a spring clip, it was not much different than the battery arrangement. Why not just make a seal (D-ring) slightly thicker and solve the problem. These, too, would, of course, need to be clean......any dirty seal is going to leak!

Hi,

If you read the earlier posts....exactly this idea was proposed to Minelab. I too thought this would be the thing to do. Minelab is not saying no to this idea but they are not saying its going to happen...at this time. Maybe in the future. They contend as in earlier posts that their O ring does the job. IF its that much of a problem....Im sure there will be a change. I would think a thicker one would be better but its not my call.

 

[Roland58]

Sorry, I did read the prior posts and saw the part about a "double D-ring", but, not the part about a thicker one. My bad if I was redundant, but, at least, we are thinking along the same lines!!

The old valve cover gaskets on the 70's model VW's used to leak badly, until some genius came up with a gasket that was slightly thicker than the stock OEM gasket...problem solved. Since the valve covers were held on with a spring clip, it was not much different than the battery arrangement. Why not just make a seal (D-ring) slightly thicker and solve the problem. These, too, would, of course, need to be clean......any dirty seal is going to leak!

Hi,

If you read the earlier posts....exactly this idea was proposed to Minelab. I too thought this would be the thing to do. Minelab is not saying no to this idea but they are not saying its going to happen...at this time. Maybe in the future. They contend as in earlier posts that their O ring does the job. IF its that much of a problem....Im sure there will be a change. I would think a thicker one would be better but its not my call.

 

[JamesBondaka]

No Roland my error....you are correct...the thicker O ring was discussed with Minelab but I didn't really mention it in this post but did mention it in another post...I just said "sealing properties" in this one. That was my first idea to have a thicker O ring...then I thought of 2 O rings together to save production costs....and no waiting etc.

Maybe they will change their mind.....again if the present O ring causes too many issues....you know it will happen and then.....they can send US the royalty check.

 

[Roland58]

No Roland my error....you are correct...the thicker O ring was discussed with Minelab but I didn't really mention it in this post but did mention it in another post...I just said "sealing properties" in this one. That was my first idea to have a thicker O ring...then I thought of 2 O rings together to save production costs....and no waiting etc.

Maybe they will change their mind.....again if the present O ring causes too many issues....you know it will happen and then.....they can send US the royalty check.

Don't hold your breath unless you are under water!!!

 

[INSAYN]

Doubled up orings may put too much pressure on the battery clamps and potentially cause failure in that area.

What I would suggest is to add dielectric grease to the battery terminals themselves so that in the event water does gets past the seal, it won't contact the terminals.

I have done this for years with my fish finder power connections on my fishing kayak. My connections are constantly getting spashed, or even submerged for minutes at a time when going through the surf zone. Not one bit of corrosion, or any shorts in 5 years. Those that have the same fish finder that failed to add dielectric grease had premature terminal failure with just a few trips out.

 

[anapo1]

when I have made ​​several posts about the problems of flooding of the ctx

I have been threatened by some here is I have been banned

remember that the problem of flooding not only from the battery compartment but also from the plug socket usb

I managed to solve the problem of this metal detector is functional with some simple things.

Now the ctx is able to go under 7 meter of water without flood


http://metaldetectorforummarche.forumfree.it/?t=67608628

thanks to my post in a forum Italian was solved a bad design of the Minelab

 

[JamesBondaka]

Doubled up orings may put too much pressure on the battery clamps and potentially cause failure in that area.

What I would suggest is to add dielectric grease to the battery terminals themselves so that in the event water does gets past the seal, it won't contact the terminals.

I have done this for years with my fish finder power connections on my fishing kayak. My connections are constantly getting spashed, or even submerged for minutes at a time when going through the surf zone. Not one bit of corrosion, or any shorts in 5 years. Those that have the same fish finder that failed to add dielectric grease had premature terminal failure with just a few trips out.

Minelab said that the pressure was ok just that the "configuration" of the two O rings together may(or may not) be good together. What may work one time may not work well another. The clamps are pretty hefty and can take more pressure that they use.

Thats a great idea about the dielectric grease. Im going to do some research on that. I could see that being useful on larger connections but the ctx are fairly small. Do you still see the benefit with that in mind?