E-Trac & pulltabs?

[rarysgaard]

Why am I getting solid good signals and a solid steady number with no jumping around even sweeping from all directions? I continue to find pulltabs that give me good ring numbers and when I dig them it turns out to be a pulltab? The surprizing thing is that it locks on to 1 number and doesn't deviate.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I don't understand the question. Different styles will repsond differently. Bent / broken ones will repsond differently. Corroded ones will respond differently. If you are finding all the same, modern, square tabs then you should expect them to have the same number.

Aluminum and gold have always occupied the same conductive range.

 

[utahshovelhead]

Because you have the xy coordinate of the pulltab you are finding open and NOT discriminated. If you don't want to find it then you need to discriminate it out by blocking the perfectly solid number out. Perhaps you are under the assumption that the E Trac has already been programed to block out all pull tabs? That depends on what DISCRIMINATION PROGRAM you are using. If you don't want to find that pull tab and it is being identified by the E trac then it is obviously not programed to reject it...you will have to program it.

 

[rarysgaard]

Apparently people didn't understand my question or perhaps I failed to articulate what I was trying to convey. I am not trying to discriminate out pulltabs because I will lose gold rings. Normally however if you go over a pulltab it gives a scratching tone or jumps around on the conductive numbers. What I am experiencing is a good solid tone that does not break up or jump around on the conductivity scale but maintains a solid good number even when swept in multiple directions.This is not limited to just one number or type of pulltab. I am getting good ring numbers in the 12-23 or 12-31 for example and it sounds good and locks on but turns out to be a pulltab when dug. I have dug enoug gold rings with the E-Trac to know that it locks onto 1 number and doesn't jump around at least when it is shallow.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Rarysgaard, your error is in the following statement:

"however if you go over a pulltab it gives a scratching tone or jumps around on the conductive numbers"

Who told you this? Where did you get the idea that pulltabs will always give scratchy bouncy signals? This is simply not true. Oh sure, some bent up ones might do that, but believe me: If they are full, bold, and shallow, they WILL INDEED lock-on quite nicely in various TID's that exactly mimic certain gold rings.

And trust me: some gold rings (and especially bracelets, odd-shaped gold earings, etc...) will give scratchy bouncy signals as well.

Perhaps you got your belief above that aluminum and gold are supposed to have a "different sound", by someone who has told you they've learned the sound difference? If so, here's what you do: next time you hear them say that: Promptly invite them out to the nearest inner city blighted ghetto park, and turn them loose. See how many gold rings they dig up, while leaving the tabs & aluminum in the ground

 

[Goes4ever]

why WOULDN'T pull tabs give a solid signal? They are like anything else, if they are whole and not all bent up they give excellent signals.

 

[hershey1]

Lay down a couple of rings and then a couple of pull tabs. When you swing over the rings pay close attention to where your cursor is on the screen. Now do the same over the pull tabs. If your quick mask screen is open this will really help. Sometimes that screen is hard to see but if you stop by a window tinting place ask for a few scraps and find some that knocks the glare off this will help also. I like the dark grey myself. This has helped me more than anything else. Hopefully it will help you. HH

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Be aware though, if anyone simply gets some random samplings of pulltabs, and random samplings of various gold rings, that, yes: there will be differences. And if you go knock out those cross-hair TIDs where the tabs landed, and edit in the cross-hair TID's where the rings fell, I think you are going to be sorely dissappointed. Becuase you can get infinate cross-hair TID's on varieties of pulltabs (especially when you start factoring in all sorts of bent up shapes), and infinate cross-hair TID's for all varieties and sizes of gold rings too.

Just because a set-sampling of a few tabs and a few gold rings seems to show differences, is no different than the truth that .... SO TOO are there "differences" between each gold ring and each other as well. You will always find some gold rings that will exactly mimic certain tabs, and vice-versa.

About the only thing a person can do is to memorize frequently recurring tab shapes/sizes. So for example, if the predominant tab type (assuming unbroken, not bent up, not deep, etc....) continually comes in at a certain TID, at a certain location, then yes: you can play the odds and eliminate *just* that one TID cross-hair. But if you are at the typical turfed area, where mowers have munched things up, and people tend to bend their tabs, pull of beaver tails, etc... then you're still going to be dealing with an un-ending myriad of TID's

 

[terrywl]

over the past couple years some very excellent hunters have posted photos of their whole "catch". A gold ring or two and a double handful of PTs and other junk. If these guys can't tell the difference what chance do us hunters with three years experience have? I am sorry to say I think if you want to find gold, and I do, you have to dig pull tabs. Just resign yourself to that fact and every 1,000 PT or so there will be gold! I actually got two nice 14k rings last month and don't think I dug more than 500 PTs. Terry in San Diego

 

[Tom_in_CA]

500 or 1000 to 1? Well, it depends on where one hunts If you were hunting the beach after storm erosion took away all the light stuff, leaving only heavy objects, the ratios would be zero tabs per each gold ring. In turfed picnic areas, it can get to where it's just simply not worth it. Because the nature of eating and BBQ'ing is a) eating (read "foil" that wrapped sandwhiches and candy) and cooking (read "aluminum nuggets" from people throwing cans on the BBQ fire) and drinking (read "tabs"). Sports/athletic fields won't have as much eat/drink garbage though. So the ratios are very dependant on locale.

 

[hershey1]

Apparently I misunderstood the question. I thought he was refering to pull tabs that repeated or locked on as a probable gold signal. My experience with MOST pull tabs is that they do not lock on. Most gold does however give a clear and repeatable signal and I like everyone else digs repeatable signals. Rarysgaard you may want to try TTF or experiment with something other than multi-tones. Sorry about the misunderstanding. HH

 

[mcb613]

Interesting thread! I do often wonder why there shouldn't be soem characteristic of aluminum that the Etrac/ operator could identify. I say this because aluminum and gold definitely sound diferent on the Excalibur. If fact, the middle part of the tone for aluminum has a buzz associated with it, whioe gold has a softer solid tone. I would think that there should be some differential between tone of aluminum and gold. I know someone will have some knowledge and comment. Thanx, Mike

 

[Jason in Enid]

The first company that can produce a machine that can trully ignore aluminum while still accepting all gold will be a VERY wealthy company very fast.

 

[rarysgaard]

Thanks for all the feedback. Most of the time when I go over pulltabs and sweep them from different directions, they will bounce and every one I have ever dug that bounced turned out to be a pulltab. I do dig pulltabs and will continue to do so as I mentioned awhile back I dug a12-15 which has always been a pulltab and it turned out to be a big hunky platinum wedding band. My first and only platinum ever.

 

[JamesBondaka]

For me older deeper pull tabs always bounce around quite a bit....but Ive also had locked on signals that were pull tabs usually 12-14 12-15 12-19. I had a few others fool me as well....so you just never know...till its in your hand. I havent had gold numbers bounce around to any degree...but looking for that deep ring/gold that does bounce but not as of yet.

 

[terrywl]

Just to jump back in, yes 1000 or 500 to 1 was an exaggeration, you caught me, but my point was you will dig a lot of pull tabs to find gold. I do not remember if any of the gold I have found that was deep and gave a weak and/or buzzy or broken signal also had bouncing numbers. A solid read is one of the keys I look for. None of the good clean tones with 12/** that were stable for me today were goldbut I did find a 49 dime and a 46 penny on the beach today to go with the 30 or 40 PTs.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

mike, you say:

"..... aluminum and gold definitely sound diferent on the Excalibur. If fact, the middle part of the tone for aluminum has a buzz associated with it, whioe gold has a softer solid tone. I would think that there should be some differential between tone of aluminum and gold "

I am assuming you have come to these conclusions by evaluating the targets you dug (junk vs gold) and mentally correlating that to the signal you got, prior to digging it, right? Makes sense afterall, that we would all try to ask ourselves "what did that sound like vs what I just dug"

Then here's what I suspect is happening, if you think that gold and aluminum sound different: the psychological trick of "selective memory". It works like this:

Every time we md'rs stop to dig something, we subconsciously say to ourselves "this sounds different". Yet when it turns out to be junk, we say to ourselves "yeah, now that I think of it, it *did* sound kinda like junk", and forget our premonitions. But that one time it turns out to be a gold ring, we THEN recall our premonitions (analyzing repeatability, etc...) and say to ourselves "I knew it! I thought it might be a gold ring. Now if I can only memorize that signal!!"

It's the same pyschology that occurs when we think our dreams at night come through. You know, the song that plays on the radio when you wake up, just *happened* to be what you dreamt of during the night before. So you think "aha! I'm pyschic!" But the truth is, we all dig hundreds of dreams per night, none of which come true, so we promptly forget them. But when that one dream coincidentally comes true the next AM, only THEN do we remember the dream, and think "aha, I'm pyschic".

The same trick is at play is at play in the aluminum vs gold "tones" theory thing, I'm afraid.

 

[mcb613]

No, in fact there is a true difference in tones. As a matter of fact, there is an "ear training guide" CD that I purchased with the Excal. That detector was supposedly made for gold and definitely differentiates between Aluminum and gold. I can try to send you an audio sample from the CD. You can also Google the "ear training" and " Excalibur. So to this fact, I think the Etrac may report a slight difference between the metals.
HH MIke

 

[terrywl]

I too think I have heard a difference between some gold and some Al with my Xcal II. But there is a lot of overlap. The Xcal is a better gold machine IMHO, but maybe that is because I can reach beach that does not get checked as often?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mike, if anyone thinks there is a way to tell gold apart from aluminum (even if they made videos, sound training clips, etc....), then here's what I would say to you, or them:

You and/or they should go down to the nearest inner city blighted junky park. Go ahead and see how many gold rings you can find, while leaving even a majority of aluminum behind. I think you/they will quickly change your views.

I had this discussion with a dealer here in CA, who was telling his customers that with enough practice, they could go to park turf and learn that gold sounds different from aluminum. I challenged him with the above challenge, to join me in a park (since he's only a few hours from me) and we would see what his ratio of gold to aluminum is. He admitted the ratios would still be in the hundreds to 1 (sounds like random odds to me?) and never accepted the challenge.