I havent posted in a few weeks but since the end of May, I have found close to 300 silver coins with my CTX. One of my reasons for success is that I get at least 20 hours a week in detecting. I see many people are using different patterns and search modes but for me, I only hunt in clear screen. I have gotten used to hearing everything under my coil and I do not like when the CTX nulls out. It works awesome and with some time, you will get used to the noise.
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Forget Programs...
- Thread starter jimzilla
- Start date
what state are you in. I'm lucky if I find 10 or 15 silvers a year!!"Dr.Tones"
New member
Wow! That is incredible! I put in some serious hours (15-20) a week and I've been seriously out hunting people in my area with a total of 20 silvers since mid August. I can't even fathom that number. You MUST be an east coaster with those ridiculously old parks! Wow! Way to go!
First off all, congrats on the remarkable number of silver coins you've recovered with your CTX 3030. Quite an accomplishment in a relatively short period of time. Nicely done!!!
Secondly, I understand your suggestion that hunting with an open screen allows you to hear everything under the coil. Like you, in many of the places I hunt, I also prefer hearing everything under the coil. But I try to not use the word "Programs" when we're only talking about Discrimination levels. Otherwise folks not familiar with the flexibility of the CTX 3030 may not realize how many options we have available for each Search mode. Things like whether you want to listen to ferrous tones or conductive tones.....or in the case of Combined Audio, both........how many tones you want to "sort out", from single to multiple, and several options in between....... how long you want the tone to "hang around" after passing the target........ do you need Fast ON or OFF................ do you want Deep ON or OFF...........would Seawater mode be beneficial..................do you need to implement ground balance.............. would you benefit from using Ferrous/Coin, Ground/Coin, High Trash or Low Trash...............would Target Trace help you isolate targets.............would you use regular Pinpoint or Sizing Pinpoint................. how could Target Trace Pinpoint be of benefit.... etc.
With dozens of "settings" and 1750 different target ID combinations, the manner in which one might set up their CTX for their sites is virtually endless. Properly selecting each of them, based on the sites we hunt and our technique, will help every one of us maximize the potential of the CTX 3030. JMHO HH Randy
Secondly, I understand your suggestion that hunting with an open screen allows you to hear everything under the coil. Like you, in many of the places I hunt, I also prefer hearing everything under the coil. But I try to not use the word "Programs" when we're only talking about Discrimination levels. Otherwise folks not familiar with the flexibility of the CTX 3030 may not realize how many options we have available for each Search mode. Things like whether you want to listen to ferrous tones or conductive tones.....or in the case of Combined Audio, both........how many tones you want to "sort out", from single to multiple, and several options in between....... how long you want the tone to "hang around" after passing the target........ do you need Fast ON or OFF................ do you want Deep ON or OFF...........would Seawater mode be beneficial..................do you need to implement ground balance.............. would you benefit from using Ferrous/Coin, Ground/Coin, High Trash or Low Trash...............would Target Trace help you isolate targets.............would you use regular Pinpoint or Sizing Pinpoint................. how could Target Trace Pinpoint be of benefit.... etc.
With dozens of "settings" and 1750 different target ID combinations, the manner in which one might set up their CTX for their sites is virtually endless. Properly selecting each of them, based on the sites we hunt and our technique, will help every one of us maximize the potential of the CTX 3030. JMHO HH Randy
scoopjohnb
New member
On the beach "wet sand"I use the standard discrimination pattern with just 2 lines of ferrous discriminated 34-35.
Tones are simply just 4 tone ferrous, whenever something hits around the 12 conduct line it gives an easy to recognise audio.
Foil isn't always foil on a wet beach, thin copper or stainless can hit in the foil area as well.
So basically I'm in an all-metal mode with small iron discriminated out.
Searching for clad and popping coins just below the sod in the park.
Coins pattern, 4 tone conduct and you can select which tone you dig. And adjust the tone conductivity values so your coins fit into the conductive bracket.
Our older coins 1800 to today,... hit anywhere from foil to pulltab to silver. Some are nickel plated steel core.
So I use the relic pattern with multi tones conduct. When I hit the omnipresent pulltab, just disc out a single dot in the screen.
This breaks up the audio and you don't have to remember the number.
So basically I'm relic hunting and removing easy to dig surface trash.
I haven't tried the combined tone pattern and an open screen. Call me awkward but I like the Minelab null.
Got use to it on the beach with the Excal and when relic hunting for vintage coins I try to force a null into a decent signal.
Also I've got this great Tommy-gun detector with concentric coil and multi-frequency that sounds like an M1 Garand.
BAM, BAM, BAM, TCHING!!! When you get that TCHING!! great stuff.
Digger has allready stated the magic of the CTX, you can just about set it up like you want.
Adjust it to your own hearing handicap, certain high tones aren't that obvious to me, open screen/disc pattern, null/iron, .... etc etc Magic.
Tones are simply just 4 tone ferrous, whenever something hits around the 12 conduct line it gives an easy to recognise audio.
Foil isn't always foil on a wet beach, thin copper or stainless can hit in the foil area as well.
So basically I'm in an all-metal mode with small iron discriminated out.
Searching for clad and popping coins just below the sod in the park.
Coins pattern, 4 tone conduct and you can select which tone you dig. And adjust the tone conductivity values so your coins fit into the conductive bracket.
Our older coins 1800 to today,... hit anywhere from foil to pulltab to silver. Some are nickel plated steel core.
So I use the relic pattern with multi tones conduct. When I hit the omnipresent pulltab, just disc out a single dot in the screen.
This breaks up the audio and you don't have to remember the number.
So basically I'm relic hunting and removing easy to dig surface trash.
I haven't tried the combined tone pattern and an open screen. Call me awkward but I like the Minelab null.
Got use to it on the beach with the Excal and when relic hunting for vintage coins I try to force a null into a decent signal.
Also I've got this great Tommy-gun detector with concentric coil and multi-frequency that sounds like an M1 Garand.
BAM, BAM, BAM, TCHING!!! When you get that TCHING!! great stuff.
Digger has allready stated the magic of the CTX, you can just about set it up like you want.
Adjust it to your own hearing handicap, certain high tones aren't that obvious to me, open screen/disc pattern, null/iron, .... etc etc Magic.
My apologies fellas...I found just over 200 silver coins with the CTX and 320 for the whole year. ( I was tired last night) I strictly use COMBINE audio and switch from FERROUS COIN to GROUND COIN going over an area in all directions. I adjusted my combine setting where the last CO box has a frequency of 1050. That makes the silver scream out to me. I hope this helps at least someone. I will be trading my scrap gold in to purchase another CTX. This is the best machine ever.
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
I love an open screen as well. Be sure to check out Gone Huntings setup! Really gets the CTX hot!
Maybe I dont understand the logic in the open screen and hearing the iron tones vs using a pattern and having iron null out. If it 'nulls' (discriminated out) that means there is iron there, but isnt the CTX supposed to send the 'good' targets through in spite of the iron? If you are hearing a low iron tone in the 'open' screen and if a coin is there you will also get coin tone, right! Then with the 'open screen' are you somehow getting more information or is it just your preferred method?
On the demo lots I hunt there is so much iron it is stupid. In the stock coin program in manual at about 22-24, and going really slow I sometimes do not get a background tone or ID numbers, for several feet (minutes sometimes) because of the nails, iron pipes, tacks, trash in the ground. I switch to the 'open' screen and hear all the low tones with the 'rust' high tones chirping in. So, am I missing something there?
I tend to use programs with discrimination and flip to the 'open' pattern on that program. So, am I losing information, is it faster response with the open screen, more efficient? Not trying to start some srot or rock thrwoing context, just asking for the reason or if just a personal preference.
On the demo lots I hunt there is so much iron it is stupid. In the stock coin program in manual at about 22-24, and going really slow I sometimes do not get a background tone or ID numbers, for several feet (minutes sometimes) because of the nails, iron pipes, tacks, trash in the ground. I switch to the 'open' screen and hear all the low tones with the 'rust' high tones chirping in. So, am I missing something there?
I tend to use programs with discrimination and flip to the 'open' pattern on that program. So, am I losing information, is it faster response with the open screen, more efficient? Not trying to start some srot or rock thrwoing context, just asking for the reason or if just a personal preference.
scoopjohnb
New member
Well look at it this way, a null goes silent and let's you hear the adjacent deep/faint non discriminated target.
An audible iron tone isn't silent and you could loose the adjacent deep/faint non discriminated target. If your hearing isn't acute enough.
When my machine nulls I slow down and investigate, trying to pull out a good tone.
Same when the machine signals an iron tone, slow down and investigate.
Here is what you could also want to do.
Don't discriminate iron, use combined tones, and discriminate out crowncaps, small foil.
So you are sweeping trash, iron grunt, iron grunt, null, iron grunt, null, high tone.
If you understand your program, you will now understand what she is telling you.
And have a feeling how much trash is there and what its made out of.
Me, I prefer peace and quiet and like the iron to null out.
At a push of a button, you can verify as you stated.
The beauty of a minelab is that you can go ever so slow and work that null, and when it sniffs something out other than iron.
I.e. the non-ferrous signal overpowers the ferrous, it will sing out!
Pocket spills are just that, always a mix of coins, keys, pocket knife, watch, nails, washers, etc. etc.
I want the peace and quiet and that faint high tone amongst it.
An audible iron tone isn't silent and you could loose the adjacent deep/faint non discriminated target. If your hearing isn't acute enough.
When my machine nulls I slow down and investigate, trying to pull out a good tone.
Same when the machine signals an iron tone, slow down and investigate.
Here is what you could also want to do.
Don't discriminate iron, use combined tones, and discriminate out crowncaps, small foil.
So you are sweeping trash, iron grunt, iron grunt, null, iron grunt, null, high tone.
If you understand your program, you will now understand what she is telling you.
And have a feeling how much trash is there and what its made out of.
Me, I prefer peace and quiet and like the iron to null out.
At a push of a button, you can verify as you stated.
The beauty of a minelab is that you can go ever so slow and work that null, and when it sniffs something out other than iron.
I.e. the non-ferrous signal overpowers the ferrous, it will sing out!
Pocket spills are just that, always a mix of coins, keys, pocket knife, watch, nails, washers, etc. etc.
I want the peace and quiet and that faint high tone amongst it.
No need to discriminate anything. When the machine nulls it masks other targets as well. I have never dug a faint deep target since most targets come in rather strong. I go super slow at all times so that could be why the deep targets come in strong for me. I hunt some trashy parks and open screen works fine. I did some tests in open screen with iron targets mixed with coins. In most patterns the coin signal was heard but it sounded much stronger in open screen
Jimzilla, so you are saying the null could 'null/mask' out other good targets. I was not aware of that, I thought the good tones would still come through the 'null'. Seems we are hunting almost the exact same type of places, gobs of iron and junk tin, aluminum, etc. I tend to hunt using a discrimination program with the clear pattern to flip to. But, having said that in some places I hunt the null is 'nullin' constantly (and there are no numbers on the screen for long periods of time) and there is no background tone at all. So quite often I will flip to the 'open' screen and search that way (then tareget ID numbers return in open) for a while.
Thanks again for the info.
Thanks again for the info.
scoopjohnb
New member
Let's get back to basics.
Simple VLF detector has an iron mask and a discrimination.
The more you run up the iron mask, the more the detector doesn't like the magnetic stuff.
The more you run up the discrimination the less it likes the lower conductors.
Every metal target which passes under your coil has a mix of magnetism and conductivity.
Hey presto a combined ferrous and conductive discrimination pattern.
Now when you attach a magnet to the fridge, you feel it slightly pulling from a short distance. When nearly having contact it is pulling to the max to attach to the fridge.
Every signal you get as you sweep towards a target, has the same effect in the headphones, a rise in volume and sometimes tones "ferrous".
So when running iron mask and conductivity discrimination you are always loosing some of your initial volume rise in the signal.
Minelab to the rescue, volume gain, deep on, volume limit max and threshold barely audible, lightning fast TID and verification against a discrimination pattern.
And stick that all in a decent computer who can analyse it fast enough so that we don't notice any processing lag whilst sweeping the coil.
Digitise the signal, ship it through the airwaves, decode it in the receiver and it's in your ear.
You indeed loose some of your signal when it is being worked by the machine. But here is where the magic starts, you can fine tune your detector to analyze the signals and report what matters to you.
Imagine not having this option and running an all metal detector in a trashy park. Aaaah, the pain of digging it all.
I admire people who are able to continually listen to iron chatter and sure their signals are louder and more clear.
But when I get an iffy signal in an otherwise fairly silent detector.
That means the machine recognised part of the signal was programmed by ME as GOOD.
The rest of the time it just shuts up when running over trash.
And whilst having no targets under the coil it reports that gentle hum of the threshold.
Peace and quiet in an otherwise stressy world.
Simple VLF detector has an iron mask and a discrimination.
The more you run up the iron mask, the more the detector doesn't like the magnetic stuff.
The more you run up the discrimination the less it likes the lower conductors.
Every metal target which passes under your coil has a mix of magnetism and conductivity.
Hey presto a combined ferrous and conductive discrimination pattern.
Now when you attach a magnet to the fridge, you feel it slightly pulling from a short distance. When nearly having contact it is pulling to the max to attach to the fridge.
Every signal you get as you sweep towards a target, has the same effect in the headphones, a rise in volume and sometimes tones "ferrous".
So when running iron mask and conductivity discrimination you are always loosing some of your initial volume rise in the signal.
Minelab to the rescue, volume gain, deep on, volume limit max and threshold barely audible, lightning fast TID and verification against a discrimination pattern.
And stick that all in a decent computer who can analyse it fast enough so that we don't notice any processing lag whilst sweeping the coil.
Digitise the signal, ship it through the airwaves, decode it in the receiver and it's in your ear.
You indeed loose some of your signal when it is being worked by the machine. But here is where the magic starts, you can fine tune your detector to analyze the signals and report what matters to you.
Imagine not having this option and running an all metal detector in a trashy park. Aaaah, the pain of digging it all.
I admire people who are able to continually listen to iron chatter and sure their signals are louder and more clear.
But when I get an iffy signal in an otherwise fairly silent detector.
That means the machine recognised part of the signal was programmed by ME as GOOD.
The rest of the time it just shuts up when running over trash.
And whilst having no targets under the coil it reports that gentle hum of the threshold.
Peace and quiet in an otherwise stressy world.
YES when the machine is nulling you will lose some of the signal strength. Just try testing a large nail or iron object with a coin right next to it. You will see with some discrimination that the coin will sound worse than if you have no discrimination at all. To each his own when it comes to this however. I like hunting in COMBINE audio with a clear screen. I have done it since early June and I love the way it produces.
Chris(SoCenWI)
Well-known member
Jim,
I've been watching this thread. I'm still swinging the original XS, and migrated to open screen ferrous very early. It seems that many have followed the same path and am not surprised to see some do the same with the CTX.
With the FBS detectors, and probably many others the amount of discrimination doesn't affect signal strength. The transmitted signal's amplitude remains constant no matter what the sensitivity or any other setting the user makes. The only thing that can change the transmitted signal is choosing (or having the detector choose) another noise channel, which will slightly shift the frequency of one of the square waves transmitted by the coil, but does not change the amplitude of the signal.
We've all noticed that deeper signals, targets buried near trash, mineralized ground, menstruating gophers and other factors can contribute to how "iffy" and repeatable a signals is. If the target icon and numbers are bouncing all over the place the greater the likelihood it will bounce into an area that the user has discriminated out, and thus produce a null instead of a tone. If you are swinging over a target that only hits in its "classic location" 1 in 5 swings it only means a 20% chance of hearing that signal if you are running lots of discrimination; you will only get a null. With a wide open screen you might not get the classic sound for the target but you will probably get something in your head phones that says there is something other than iron there.
So basically only targets that are shallow, away from trash and fertile rodents will consistently hit in their designated areas. The tighter you have the discrimination set the less likely you are to get anything besides a null. And this is why people perceive that the "loose" depth with discrimination. It has nothing to do with the power transmitted by the detector but everything to do with the odds that any particular target will hit exactly or closely to where it should.
Chris
I've been watching this thread. I'm still swinging the original XS, and migrated to open screen ferrous very early. It seems that many have followed the same path and am not surprised to see some do the same with the CTX.
With the FBS detectors, and probably many others the amount of discrimination doesn't affect signal strength. The transmitted signal's amplitude remains constant no matter what the sensitivity or any other setting the user makes. The only thing that can change the transmitted signal is choosing (or having the detector choose) another noise channel, which will slightly shift the frequency of one of the square waves transmitted by the coil, but does not change the amplitude of the signal.
We've all noticed that deeper signals, targets buried near trash, mineralized ground, menstruating gophers and other factors can contribute to how "iffy" and repeatable a signals is. If the target icon and numbers are bouncing all over the place the greater the likelihood it will bounce into an area that the user has discriminated out, and thus produce a null instead of a tone. If you are swinging over a target that only hits in its "classic location" 1 in 5 swings it only means a 20% chance of hearing that signal if you are running lots of discrimination; you will only get a null. With a wide open screen you might not get the classic sound for the target but you will probably get something in your head phones that says there is something other than iron there.
So basically only targets that are shallow, away from trash and fertile rodents will consistently hit in their designated areas. The tighter you have the discrimination set the less likely you are to get anything besides a null. And this is why people perceive that the "loose" depth with discrimination. It has nothing to do with the power transmitted by the detector but everything to do with the odds that any particular target will hit exactly or closely to where it should.
Chris
scoopjohnb
New member
Very nicely put Chris.
A lot of people forget the detector analyzes everything the coil senses.
So a mix of nail and coin will drop the ferrous signal, a little more magnetic than usual. And conductivity will differ from the usual as well.
Targets jumping all over the place often hide something interesting, or big iron.
A lot of people forget the detector analyzes everything the coil senses.
So a mix of nail and coin will drop the ferrous signal, a little more magnetic than usual. And conductivity will differ from the usual as well.
Targets jumping all over the place often hide something interesting, or big iron.
Chris my referring to signal strength had nothing to do with sound but how strong the signal reads from the CTX. The more discrimination the weaker the targets. If you discriminated everything except coins 12-40 and up, the 12-39 and 12-40 signals will come up "weaker" on the CTX. The same principal applies to lower range targets. I have had 3 targets come up in the 12-26 to 12-30 range that were all nickels with silver dimes. Likewise I have had 4 targets come in at 22-45+ that were silver quarters mixed with iron. With an open screen you will hear the difference very clearly between an iron target next to a coin. Maybe that is why I think Target Trace is useless. I never need to use TT because I hear all of the sounds in the ground. Hearing the target vs reading the screen saves a few seconds...Times that by approx 200 targets and you will dig more coins.