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Harassed by the Police tonight...
- Thread starter FooserPaul
- Start date
BJ in Okla.
Active member
I agree 100%....
I have hunted that park for years and never a problem.
I am 68 years old, had my left knee replaced, my right knee needs to be replaced,
I have to lay down to dig a plug and then get my 300 lbs back up.
And I still use a hand digger.
The Cop that ran him off after over a year of using a shovel in that park, said there are no laws against metal detecting, the ordnance says, no digging of any kind.
I would bet someone got tired of seeing that shovel and the mess they were making and called in...
HH...BJ
I have hunted that park for years and never a problem.
I am 68 years old, had my left knee replaced, my right knee needs to be replaced,
I have to lay down to dig a plug and then get my 300 lbs back up.
And I still use a hand digger.
The Cop that ran him off after over a year of using a shovel in that park, said there are no laws against metal detecting, the ordnance says, no digging of any kind.
I would bet someone got tired of seeing that shovel and the mess they were making and called in...
HH...BJ
a relic shovel is bad enough but I have seen people walk into parks with regular full size spade type shovels, you know the kind with an enclosed "T" handle about 4' long and with a full sized pointed shovel.... it always shocks me to see someone do this. They invariably walk over and ask where they can dig some relics... They always seem to think they are going for find either treasure or a pouch full of CW relics... and don't get me started on the old timers who don't bother with a trash pouch, who either leave the trash in the hole or throw it aside and stick the few items they want to keep in their pocket. Thankfully they mostly hunt in the woods and the occasional construction site.... but it burns my butt!!
Julien
Julien
FooserPaul
New member
Thank you for all the comments and input... THis was not at night... about 5:30 - 6pm... This school lets out at 3:30 and the parking lot was completely empty of cars before I got there... Its a small school built at the turn of the century... I do use a lesche... no shovels... and did looks to see where I dug and tried to kick up and plg and could not...
It bothered me the 1st night... but last night I went out and hit a different spot and got 2 IH's 1883 and 1890... nothing to exciting... I'll just let it lie till next summer for that spot
Thank you everyone!
Paul
It bothered me the 1st night... but last night I went out and hit a different spot and got 2 IH's 1883 and 1890... nothing to exciting... I'll just let it lie till next summer for that spot
Thank you everyone!
Paul
BJ in Okla.
Active member
because of a few, the many will have a hard time finding a place to detect in the future....
HH...BJ
HH...BJ
Altamaha
Member
jbow said:
Wow, can't believe that some people just don't get it Julien. Even as we are having this conversation/discussion about ways to preserve our hobby and show it in a good light, a new video gets posted with guys walking around detecting and carrying full size shovels!!! This kind of behavior will be the death of our hobby for sure. Over the many years that I have been detecting I have seen it happening (more and more places off limits to detectorists), what a shame!!! WOW!
Critterhunter
New member
I started a thread like this a while back in the main forum. Like the one picture shows, you guys carrying a shovel, even a small one with a short handle, are just asking to get us banned from public spots. DON'T use something like that out in the public. The only time I would even consider using ANY kind of shovel with any kind of handle on it (even a small military one) is when I'm in the woods where nobody can see me. Even then, make darn sure you keep it hid until you get into the woods.
Don't give me excuses about you being too old to bend down and dig a plug like a normal hunter. There is no such thing as too old, only people too out of shape. I know guys in their late 60's that can out do me in terms of crawling under cars and working on things that take a lot of bending. NO EXCUSE. If you are too lazy to bend down then either get in shape or find another sport to waste your time on and not destroy it for the rest of us. Or, get yourself a long handled scoop and start hunting the beaches where you don't have to bend down. I encourage any fellow detectorist who sees a guy using a shovel like that to give me a real talking down to.
I use a normal digger with a 7" blade and about 4" of handle on it. It sits in a holster when not in use. Carry one of those in your hand all the time and look to get in trouble. Also, I always try to use a screwdriver in public when the target is say less than 4" deep. And when I do dig a plug I put my back to the road or people so nobody can see what I'm doing. I've taken to digging my plugs now with one side still attached like a hinge and then just fold it out of the ground. This makes it cleaner when it goes back in since it hasn't been shifted in relation to how it sits in the ground. If people don't start using common sense it won't be long before most of our spots are off limits. People hate to see other people having fun. That's just human nature, so they WILL call the cops if you stick things in their face like that. Also, I don't hit schools when anybody is there or any sports are going on. Even in parks I stay away from people and kids. If too many kids start following me around I leave, because a nervous parent will find a cop and start complaining.
I use a Garrett ProPointer and I can super tune (increase it's depth) by sliding a washer down the side of it that I have tied back by the battery cover. I just use my thumb to slide it down the shaft until it sounds off, then back it off a bit. Now I can pinpoint targets even deeper without digging a hole, and use my screwdriver to pop it out when in sport fields or open public areas. ALWAYS try to pop it with a screwdriver first or soon you'll be singing the blues like other people because you were too lazy.
We may all have "rights", but with those rights comes some form of responsibility. Mainly, stay out of people's way and always leave an area if you think you might be at risk of getting some noisy person to call the cops on you. You don't flaunt things in front of people. The way I see it as a tax payer I have every right (see my signature file) to do what I want, but that doesn't mean I don't have to take certain precautions to protect myself from the less informed public. Arguing about your rights with a cop is a no win solution. He doesn't care what the law says. All he cares about is making whoever is complaining this time happy.
Don't give me excuses about you being too old to bend down and dig a plug like a normal hunter. There is no such thing as too old, only people too out of shape. I know guys in their late 60's that can out do me in terms of crawling under cars and working on things that take a lot of bending. NO EXCUSE. If you are too lazy to bend down then either get in shape or find another sport to waste your time on and not destroy it for the rest of us. Or, get yourself a long handled scoop and start hunting the beaches where you don't have to bend down. I encourage any fellow detectorist who sees a guy using a shovel like that to give me a real talking down to.
I use a normal digger with a 7" blade and about 4" of handle on it. It sits in a holster when not in use. Carry one of those in your hand all the time and look to get in trouble. Also, I always try to use a screwdriver in public when the target is say less than 4" deep. And when I do dig a plug I put my back to the road or people so nobody can see what I'm doing. I've taken to digging my plugs now with one side still attached like a hinge and then just fold it out of the ground. This makes it cleaner when it goes back in since it hasn't been shifted in relation to how it sits in the ground. If people don't start using common sense it won't be long before most of our spots are off limits. People hate to see other people having fun. That's just human nature, so they WILL call the cops if you stick things in their face like that. Also, I don't hit schools when anybody is there or any sports are going on. Even in parks I stay away from people and kids. If too many kids start following me around I leave, because a nervous parent will find a cop and start complaining.
I use a Garrett ProPointer and I can super tune (increase it's depth) by sliding a washer down the side of it that I have tied back by the battery cover. I just use my thumb to slide it down the shaft until it sounds off, then back it off a bit. Now I can pinpoint targets even deeper without digging a hole, and use my screwdriver to pop it out when in sport fields or open public areas. ALWAYS try to pop it with a screwdriver first or soon you'll be singing the blues like other people because you were too lazy.
We may all have "rights", but with those rights comes some form of responsibility. Mainly, stay out of people's way and always leave an area if you think you might be at risk of getting some noisy person to call the cops on you. You don't flaunt things in front of people. The way I see it as a tax payer I have every right (see my signature file) to do what I want, but that doesn't mean I don't have to take certain precautions to protect myself from the less informed public. Arguing about your rights with a cop is a no win solution. He doesn't care what the law says. All he cares about is making whoever is complaining this time happy.
Critterhunter
New member
Posted the above message in the main forum along with this follow up...
I'd further add that with rights come responsibilities. That's where we as Americans get in trouble. A person is either too dumb or too lazy to do the little things that will keep from running into problems, and so some do-gooder sues or spearheads a law to take care of the problem.
For example, you never considered that walking away from somebody five feet outside when smoking a cigarette would be a good idea, or were just too lazy to do it, and so now we've got laws that ban all of us from smoking outside in some areas. Outrageous? Yes, but with a little common courtesy it would have never had to come to that. I smoke, so believe me I know where I come from on this. I think it's insane that I'm not allowed to smoke outside of a building unless I walk to the very edge of the road. Now guess where all those cigarette buts get thrown, because there isn't a garbage can that far away for people.
As pertaining to my signature file as another example, some parents let their kids eat junk food all day long and sit on the couch and play PlayStation. Some "enlightened" school administrator then thinks it would be a good idea to force all the kids to eat "good old mother earth" type junk that couldn't keep a rabbit alive. Hey, I ate plenty of junk when I was in school and drank plenty of pop on top of that, but I also played outside and did other things other than playing video games all day long. Sure, we had video games back in my day, but I didn't sit there like a zombie for two days straight on it either.
Some yahoo thinks it's a good idea to hold a firecracker in his hand or shoot it at his neighbor, and now in the "freest" country on earth we can't light off fireworks to celebrate the 4th of July. Somebody else thinks it would be fun to stick his feet in a washing machine, and now they put stickers on them that says not to do that.
People lack common sense or good judgement, or are just too lazy to do the right thing, and so then what happens is those "certain" people in politics that think you really are too dumb to run your own life gladly write yet another new law to gain further control over you. You play right into the hands of these people. You know who I'm talking about, those professional politicians from certain parties who have never held a real job in their life yet think they know how capitalism should work better than those who actually are part of it in the real world.
Just because you feel you have the right to do something does not mean you should go about it in the most outlandish offensive way when it comes to certain things. You have the right to play loud music, but not in a car going down the street that is so loud that it shakes the cars next to it. Nobody wants to hear how bad your music is.
Let me make sure I'm clear here. I'm not in favor of any of these laws, but I am saying don't give others a reason to have a problem with it. I'm just more in favor of the public policing themselve's then letting it come down to yet another feel good law that punishes all of us.
I think I have a rather good idea for this problem amongst the metal detecting crowd. Why don't we get the moderator to post a stickie at the top of this forum that says "HALL OF SHAME" or something like that. Those who get caught on video or with a picture digging huge holes with shovels (even the shorter style ones), or even those who get caught with their own words in a message about doing something wrong, such as somebody who might have been hunting at night in the dark in a public place. Little things like that that people say in their own words. They should get a picture in that stickie of them doing something, or an excerpt of their words from their own message should be posted as proof of their deserving Wall Of Shame status.
Better yet, in addition to this a small message should be forced to be attached to the bottom of every one of their messages much like a signature file that says something like "This person has shown unethical behavior in the hobby of metal detecting, and should be closely watched to insure no further incidents happen." Much like a drunk driver license plate. And guess what, if they would happen to be caught a second time on video, via a picture, or in their own words doing something else that can jeopardize our hobby then they should be banned from the forum. Who's with me on this? I think that would be one heck of an idea. Somebody run it by the moderator. I'm sure some will find it quite fun to rummage through old videos and pictures to find people doing things like digging crater holes, using shovels, hunting at night in a public place, getting right up against people in a park or at the beach. The list is endless.
That thread is here...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,1300232,1300270#msg-1300270
I'd further add that with rights come responsibilities. That's where we as Americans get in trouble. A person is either too dumb or too lazy to do the little things that will keep from running into problems, and so some do-gooder sues or spearheads a law to take care of the problem.
For example, you never considered that walking away from somebody five feet outside when smoking a cigarette would be a good idea, or were just too lazy to do it, and so now we've got laws that ban all of us from smoking outside in some areas. Outrageous? Yes, but with a little common courtesy it would have never had to come to that. I smoke, so believe me I know where I come from on this. I think it's insane that I'm not allowed to smoke outside of a building unless I walk to the very edge of the road. Now guess where all those cigarette buts get thrown, because there isn't a garbage can that far away for people.
As pertaining to my signature file as another example, some parents let their kids eat junk food all day long and sit on the couch and play PlayStation. Some "enlightened" school administrator then thinks it would be a good idea to force all the kids to eat "good old mother earth" type junk that couldn't keep a rabbit alive. Hey, I ate plenty of junk when I was in school and drank plenty of pop on top of that, but I also played outside and did other things other than playing video games all day long. Sure, we had video games back in my day, but I didn't sit there like a zombie for two days straight on it either.
Some yahoo thinks it's a good idea to hold a firecracker in his hand or shoot it at his neighbor, and now in the "freest" country on earth we can't light off fireworks to celebrate the 4th of July. Somebody else thinks it would be fun to stick his feet in a washing machine, and now they put stickers on them that says not to do that.
People lack common sense or good judgement, or are just too lazy to do the right thing, and so then what happens is those "certain" people in politics that think you really are too dumb to run your own life gladly write yet another new law to gain further control over you. You play right into the hands of these people. You know who I'm talking about, those professional politicians from certain parties who have never held a real job in their life yet think they know how capitalism should work better than those who actually are part of it in the real world.
Just because you feel you have the right to do something does not mean you should go about it in the most outlandish offensive way when it comes to certain things. You have the right to play loud music, but not in a car going down the street that is so loud that it shakes the cars next to it. Nobody wants to hear how bad your music is.
Let me make sure I'm clear here. I'm not in favor of any of these laws, but I am saying don't give others a reason to have a problem with it. I'm just more in favor of the public policing themselve's then letting it come down to yet another feel good law that punishes all of us.
I think I have a rather good idea for this problem amongst the metal detecting crowd. Why don't we get the moderator to post a stickie at the top of this forum that says "HALL OF SHAME" or something like that. Those who get caught on video or with a picture digging huge holes with shovels (even the shorter style ones), or even those who get caught with their own words in a message about doing something wrong, such as somebody who might have been hunting at night in the dark in a public place. Little things like that that people say in their own words. They should get a picture in that stickie of them doing something, or an excerpt of their words from their own message should be posted as proof of their deserving Wall Of Shame status.
Better yet, in addition to this a small message should be forced to be attached to the bottom of every one of their messages much like a signature file that says something like "This person has shown unethical behavior in the hobby of metal detecting, and should be closely watched to insure no further incidents happen." Much like a drunk driver license plate. And guess what, if they would happen to be caught a second time on video, via a picture, or in their own words doing something else that can jeopardize our hobby then they should be banned from the forum. Who's with me on this? I think that would be one heck of an idea. Somebody run it by the moderator. I'm sure some will find it quite fun to rummage through old videos and pictures to find people doing things like digging crater holes, using shovels, hunting at night in a public place, getting right up against people in a park or at the beach. The list is endless.
That thread is here...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,1300232,1300270#msg-1300270
FooserPaul
New member
ahhh...
Altamaha
Member
I agree with the last two posts by critterhunter, this is serious stuff and the reason why we should start to police ourselves regarding our hobby. Did any of you ever hear of the Archaeological Resources Preservation Act (ARPA), passed by congress in 1979 and sponsored by ex Senator Alan Simson of Wyoming? Well this is a law that I think that all of us should be aware of, so read about it and some of it's ramifications here:
http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metaldetectinglaws.html
After reading it I think you will start to understand why we all should be very careful in the way we pursue our hobby. You just never know who is watching you when you are metal detecting! Even though this law had some good intentions when when it was passed, some of our worse enemies (Arrogant Archaeologist) have stretched it's intent to make a full fledged assault on our hobby. Also just google it (ARPA) and you will find much more.
There is also a an organization FMDAC (Federation Of Metal Detecting and Archaeological Clubs), organized to help give us some leverage in fighting back against some of the encroachments on our hobby. I think we should all support it. Remember if we don't have a voice in numbers we just get run over in our society. The FMDAC is our voice.
I also agree with critterhunter that we should use forums like this to educate metal detectorists about proper behavior is pursuing our hobby.
I love this wonderful hobby and would not like to see it taken away from us. Thanks!
http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metaldetectinglaws.html
After reading it I think you will start to understand why we all should be very careful in the way we pursue our hobby. You just never know who is watching you when you are metal detecting! Even though this law had some good intentions when when it was passed, some of our worse enemies (Arrogant Archaeologist) have stretched it's intent to make a full fledged assault on our hobby. Also just google it (ARPA) and you will find much more.
There is also a an organization FMDAC (Federation Of Metal Detecting and Archaeological Clubs), organized to help give us some leverage in fighting back against some of the encroachments on our hobby. I think we should all support it. Remember if we don't have a voice in numbers we just get run over in our society. The FMDAC is our voice.
I also agree with critterhunter that we should use forums like this to educate metal detectorists about proper behavior is pursuing our hobby.
I love this wonderful hobby and would not like to see it taken away from us. Thanks!
Critterhunter
New member
Kenova said:
It's always interesting to observe those who quickly resort to a smart remark or personal attack rather than reasoned opinion and logic. When I see that happen it always tells me a lot about people, or strategies used by certain political parties for that matter. I could get cute or personal and say something like "What's the matter, guilty conscience when it comes to detecting?" Or something like "Or is it that you just don't like my statement about the American flag?"....but I won't do anything like that. Statements like yours above just show a lack of foundation to back one's position on a topic. Oldest trick in the book. Text book, in fact. The irony is that your demonstrated behaviour relates exactly to the entire point I was trying to make, and I'm sure that irony wasn't lost on some people.
For the very same reasoning, that is why it's pointless to try to assert your rights to a police officer, or explain to Joe Public that you aren't going to damage the grass even with that big shovel you are using. Perception is everything, and never assume people will understand or see things the way you do. You're only likely to get an emotional and knee jerk response like the one above. THAT'S the point. Don't flaunt this hobby. Be discrete. Be courteous. And most importantly, always look for a reason not to put yourself in the position to run into trouble out there, as you can't rely on the perceptions of people or their good intent, and so must do whatever it takes to lesson the chance for an overreaction. Hence my point about the personal remark above.
Sorry to hear you feel jilted by the law enforcement officers that you had contact with. In todays society and the way things are, alot more people are going to be (checked on) by the local Departments. Some of the guys I've hunted with here know I work in Law Enforcement so no need to do a check and give the old--your just one of them spills.
It's as easy as going to the principal of the school--most of the time through a friend who knows him or her ( we all know how the permission game is played) and ask to hunt the school. "In case someone asks can I have a permission slip".
If those same Officers would have checked on someone through a complaint and found him or her to be planning/doing or what ever to really jeopardize the children of the school then they would be praised....checking you and finding you did not have permission..then they are harassing. This all falls back on have permission before/and have no problems later.
It's as easy as going to the principal of the school--most of the time through a friend who knows him or her ( we all know how the permission game is played) and ask to hunt the school. "In case someone asks can I have a permission slip".
If those same Officers would have checked on someone through a complaint and found him or her to be planning/doing or what ever to really jeopardize the children of the school then they would be praised....checking you and finding you did not have permission..then they are harassing. This all falls back on have permission before/and have no problems later.
Myownwings
New member
FooserPaul,
Sorry to hear about your encounter. 3Ringer's advice is the best.
Sorry to hear about your encounter. 3Ringer's advice is the best.
I have experienced this very same thing in my town. A school I have hunted in for 20 years. I was there with a buddy on a weekend during Summer (school was out for the summer). A security guard walked over looked at us and then locked us in. The gate was open when we got there and there are no signs anywhere saying no tresspassing or anything for that matter. She hurried to lock the gate and jogged back to her car before we could approach her to ask her why she locked us in. As we got to the gate she finally confronted us (after she called the police). In this case she told us that she has been informed that there is to be no tresspassing whatsoever on any public school in our town (Northern, CA). She then said that she would be pressing charges. Once the officer arrived, lucky for me I was reserve police officer in my town for 5 years so I knew the officer very well and had just sold my boat to him 2 weeks before. He told the security guard to unlock the gate and that her actions to lock us in could be considered illegal as she was in effect detaining us. Section 602 of the Calif Penal Code says that there has to be posted signs saying "No Tresspassing" when there is no fence or locked gates. In this case it was an open gate. She had to unlock the lock then sut the gate then lock us in. I was lucky I knew the cop but after he left, she told me that if she ever saw me again on school property she would imediately call the police again. I still don't know why but 2 years ago, every school in our town constructed tall fences around every school property. Vandalism? To keep non-students out during school? I'll never know because I no longer detect at all in my town.
Most of us that get out a lot have all had multiple incidents where we were told that we can't detect on a public property (Park, School, etc.) because it is against the law. When in fact there are no laws. Like Racer-X said, never ask for permission to detect on public land where it is not posted "No Metal Detecting". I carry business cards, simply says "Treasure Hunter" "Mark Dayton" with my mailing address and phone number. Within the first few seconds of anyone talking to me I pull that out and hand it to them before they even tell me their concerns. 99% of the time they calm right down when they see the card.
HH, Mark
Most of us that get out a lot have all had multiple incidents where we were told that we can't detect on a public property (Park, School, etc.) because it is against the law. When in fact there are no laws. Like Racer-X said, never ask for permission to detect on public land where it is not posted "No Metal Detecting". I carry business cards, simply says "Treasure Hunter" "Mark Dayton" with my mailing address and phone number. Within the first few seconds of anyone talking to me I pull that out and hand it to them before they even tell me their concerns. 99% of the time they calm right down when they see the card.
HH, Mark
vlad
Well-known member
You know all of the garbage out there? The stuff you recover that you dig up, and take out, start amassing it. Add to it the surface stuff you see and
pick up, to get it out of the way, like; broken beer/wine bottles, many that are brown, green or clear, but easy to miss, with foil attached; beer/soft drink cans chewed up by mowers who work for the city/school but too lazy to climb down and pick this sharp edged stuff up; screw caps, bottle caps, razors, bullets, including live rounds, lead tire weights, sticks with nails purposely added for a makeshift club, small squares of aluminum foil-sometimes burned, crack pipes, hypodermic needles, pieces of pipe, pieces
of chain, locks, "heavy duty" nail files and combs, and occasionally drugs or maybe even a gun.
You know, things that children can get injured by, and whatever dept. oversees the grounds has liability. Make sure you show the principal, mayor, groundskeeper,
security guard, cop, or whoever is claiming authority, all of the dangerous stuff "THIS" unpaid person gladly takes out at every opportunity, leaving it a much cleaner and safer environment, "for the children."
We have actually had them OFFER to pay us to remove DUG stuff along with all of the things concealed in the grass. Keep a folder of incidents where someone
with a detector was able to aid law enforcement. And things do get shown on TV.
YOU have to be proactive. IF YOU DON'T SPEAK UP, NO ONE ELSE WILL.
pick up, to get it out of the way, like; broken beer/wine bottles, many that are brown, green or clear, but easy to miss, with foil attached; beer/soft drink cans chewed up by mowers who work for the city/school but too lazy to climb down and pick this sharp edged stuff up; screw caps, bottle caps, razors, bullets, including live rounds, lead tire weights, sticks with nails purposely added for a makeshift club, small squares of aluminum foil-sometimes burned, crack pipes, hypodermic needles, pieces of pipe, pieces
of chain, locks, "heavy duty" nail files and combs, and occasionally drugs or maybe even a gun.
You know, things that children can get injured by, and whatever dept. oversees the grounds has liability. Make sure you show the principal, mayor, groundskeeper,
security guard, cop, or whoever is claiming authority, all of the dangerous stuff "THIS" unpaid person gladly takes out at every opportunity, leaving it a much cleaner and safer environment, "for the children."
We have actually had them OFFER to pay us to remove DUG stuff along with all of the things concealed in the grass. Keep a folder of incidents where someone
with a detector was able to aid law enforcement. And things do get shown on TV.
YOU have to be proactive. IF YOU DON'T SPEAK UP, NO ONE ELSE WILL.