I just twigged why the GPS is a real good idea on the detector.

[Mick in Dubbo]

It means that you can keep track of the ground you have passed your coil over,. Sweet. The same idea is used on farm equipment ie headers, It allows for effectient ground coverage without over lap. Good thinking Minelab.
Something else I noticed when I saw a close up picture of the control housing from a link in a nearby post, was that the 3030 does not have a pinpoint button. Very interesting. Sounds like you don't need it.
Mick Evans.

 

[khouse]

It has a trigger pinpoint. Someone linked us to an ad that actually shows and describes it. I'm looking firward to the release of more info for sure. I agree about the GPS also.

 

[Critterhunter]

I still say consumer GPS doesn't have enough resolution to keep you from missing spots while gridding. Well, some say there are GPS systems that detailed but they are very bulky receivers and require a subscription through a private company. From what I've looked up (maybe I'm wrong) consumer GPS is only accurate enough to put you within 10 to 50 feet of a spot. While one guy said it exists down to inches for things like farm equipment, another guy said the receivers for those are very bulky and require a subscription through a private company (think private satelites). Far as I know the US government restricts public access to high resolution on their satelites due to security issues with people building guided bombs and such, while the military does have the resolution access to fly a bomb through a window for instance.

I've in no way researched this stuff heavily on the web so I may very well be WAY off base with what I've gathered so far by superficial reading, so don't beat on me too much if I'm wrong. Just set the record straight for everybody.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here, I dug this up...

"The new generation of GPS receivers is very accurate on account of their multi-channel design. For instance Garmin has twelve parallel channel receivers that maintain strong links with the satellite network even among tall buildings or dense foliage. These receivers? average accuracy levels come up to within 15 meters. Garmin also has a new range with WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) that can have an accuracy of within three meters. Differential GPS is another way of achieving better accuracy of up to five meters. Here a network of towers receive GPS signals and send back a rectified signal using beacon transmitters. However this system requires that the user has a differential beacon receiver and antenna along with the GPS equipment."

Maybe my web search is digging up blurbs on older GPS technology, as the one guy said that farm equipment working in the fields can get down to inches in accuracy...But as somebody else said that kind of accuracy requires bulky receivers and such and a possible subscription via a private company...Maybe those systems are large because they need a differential beacon reciever and antenna as the above blurb talks about in more accurate GPS systems? Anybody know if there are GPS systems out there these days that have accuracy in terms of inches and come with a small compact unit?

 

[Heelgrasper]

Just for those who want to look at what is involved in getting high precision: Leica GeoSystems. As far as I understand it you'll have to move into something like that if you want precision better than 10 feet/3 meters, perhaps 3 feet/1 meter is something you're starting to be able to get for handheld devices but I haven't seen any yet. Here in Denmark the museums usually have the high precsion gear and when we're working in the field with them they sometimes bring it with them. A couple of years ago I looked at what it would cost to invest in something like that for a detecting club but the cost was simply to high both in gear investment and yearly costs.

 

[Southwind]

Augmentation?

Higher accuracy is available today by using GPS in combination with augmentation systems. These enable real-time positioning to within a few centimeters, and post-mission measurements at the millimeter level. Many users enhance the basic SPS with local or regional augmentations. Such systems boost civilian GPS accuracy beyond that of PPS

 

[Jason in TN]

The GPS will not be accurate enough to grid a ara 10 to 30ft is about as good as it is going to get under the best conditions.

Jason

 

[Critterhunter]

No text. Got to start let others do the talking for me.....

 

[Boxer5221]

Actually, today's civilian GPS systems are very accurate, down to centimeters given the right circumstances. When GPS was first put in to use, the military had a program called, Selective Availability (SA) which made civilian GPS systems not nearly as accurate when compared to the military. Then, President Clinton ended the program of Selective Availability, giving consumers a much more accurate system. A civilian GPS unit uses one channel to receive satellite data, while the military uses two channels. If you stopped the comparing there, then yes, the military version can get more accurate. However, there are things called, "Augmentation Systems" that civilian GPS units can take advantage of for greater accuracy. One such system is WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) which can greatly increase accuracy. Another augmentation system is currently in use by cell phone towers. They are also equipped with GPS monitoring systems that give automatic corrections. These augmentation systems when used on civilian GPS systems can give as good or better than just the standalone military units with their two channels.

Back in the early days of GPS, your statements are absolutely accurate, but much has improved. More information on today's GPS constellations and augmentation systems can be found here: www.gps.gov

As related to the discussion, I think a GPS integrated into a detector is a great idea. Not only can it possibly prevent you from covering ground you've already explored, but you may also have the capability of marking your finds, then downloading them to a map on your computer later. This would give you the ability to notice patterns and give a better idea of some other areas to explore in and around the area that could be promising.

 

[Prep1957]

I locate utilities for a living for major utility company,Use a hand held device to log new utility location. called a Trimble,accurate to 1 to 3 feet easy,also is close to 8 grand- back pack GPS is accurate to 3 inches 25 grand.I suppose you could GPS each good find to see where hot locations are at in large plowed fields might be of some use.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

G'day Kenny.
Yeah, when I posted, I couldn't see the post and forgot about the comment about the trigger. (Could have been on another thread.)
Thanks for all the posts everyone. I must plead ignorance when it comes to GPS's. I still use maps and street directories when navigating strange places., I guess I'm lucky in that I remember key parts of maps fairly well and have a pretty good sence of direction. The GPS on the wifes phone can come up with some interesting info though.
I remember several years ago, listening to the radio when the subject of GPS guided farm equipment came up and there accuracy. Didn't give the details too much thought, but it's good to get all the feed back.
Cheers.
Mick Evans.

 

[khouse]

Mick,
I've been reading about "precision farming" with GPS. It seems the equipment is pretty big and I have read that it can be accurate to within inches. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Mick in Dubbo]

That was the exact thought that I was holding when I wrote the opening post of this thread. Perhaps technology might one day be able to reduced to point that we can make use of it like that. It be a challenge to do that; not impossible.
Mick Evans.

 

[BigCatDaddy]

Being a surveyor that uses GPS daily for our oilfield surveys, what you are going to get in a handheld device at the price of this detector will be no more than +/- 3 meters. That is to say. if you get a lat/long on your position, if will be accurate to 3 meters in any direction. Imagine standing at a spot with a 3 meter long stick. Swing it around in a circle, and your handheld GPS will have you located accurately within that circle. We use sub-centimeter accuracy units, but they require a base station set in a fixed position for triangulation with the rover unit and the satelites and then we have to run the data thru software, get an Opus solution from NOAA to get us down to that accuracy. Units run in the $40,000 range. If anybody sez they can deliver that kind of accuracy in a handheld unit, they've probably also got some real attractive Florida real estate for sale too!!

 

[Gonehunting]

Don't know if anyone knows about this but when I worked for John Deere they have what they call GreenStar. It helps the Farmer keep his rows straight, plots his fields, and so on. It was highly accurate.. it was acurate down to row sizes.. that would be pretty precise..l

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks for that information. As I suspected, the GPS isn't going to be able to help you grid without missing spots or anything. I wonder if they'll offer another model without GPS and some other unneeded features for people who just want performance and don't care about anything else? I doubt it, as I don't think Minelab will offer a model anywhere near the price of the Etrac because why kill your best selling machine right now? I suspect the base model price will be at least $400 to $600 more than the Etrac if not more. Just wouldn't make any sense to shoot yourself in the foot by putting it only a few hundred dollars more than an Etrac and thus badly hurt the Etrac sales. If people can come up with enough money for an Etrac what's another $200 to get the next model up? Sure, the SE Pro isn't priced that much lower than an Etrac but there are guys who prefer the Explorers and there are guys who prefer the Etracs, thus they don't need to be too distant in price from each other as one isn't really taking away sales from the other. Both camps like their machines better than the other for one reason or another.

 

[Heelgrasper]

Don't know if anyone knows about this but when I worked for John Deere they have what they call GreenStar. It helps the Farmer keep his rows straight, plots his fields, and so on. It was highly accurate.. it was acurate down to row sizes.. that would be pretty precise..l

Yes but not something you could put in a detector or even a handheld unit. Or for that matter something people would pay the actual price for for the purpose of detecting.

Any single-unit system for precsion on the level of 1-2 feet/30-60 cm or better will cost you something like 10,000 dollars and add to that subscription to OmniSTAR or StarFire at roughly 1,000 dollars a year. Kinda makes the CTX 3030 looks cheap, regardles what that will end up costing.

 

[Boxer5221]

My two cents on this topic is that I know a few detectorists that use hand held gps units when they go out (including myself). When we discover a find, we mark it with our gps, then we can upload the points to a map (even Google maps). From here, you can get a bird's eye view of where you were when you found the item and also see if there is a "pattern" to your finds that may help you discover more when you go back.

I'm sure Minelab realizes that some of us do this and they are simply answering that need with the gps functionality included in the CTX-3030. I personally appreciate this in a detector as it means I have to carry one less thing, worry less about batteries, etc. I also think the standard, civilian accuracy gps is fine for this application, just my thoughts.

 

[bcoop]

True, I don't think the GPS on this machine was designed or intended for you to return back to the plug you just dug a seated coin from or back to the same beach scoop hole you dug last year. Those finds are already gone, if it is accurate withing 1 yard or 3.3 feet that would be all you need. It would be nice to upload that and print a birds eye view of a particular area where you have found good finds.

I think about the fellows that live on the beach. Even though the beach is ever changing, they still have their hot spots. It would be nice to be able to only log all your jewelry or ring finds and compare them by month or by year or even by hunting after annual organized beach events like city organized celebrations etc. With that type of information you may be able to see a productive pattern lying right in front of you. If it does, you'll go work those spots first.

For those of us that are interested in this feature I believe it will provide some valuable information when used regularly and some users will have no need for it

BCOOP

 

[Critterhunter]

That sounds like too much office work. For me I don't want the hobby to get so involved that I'm going to log in and chart out finds on a map. Sounds too much like work to me, but that's me. I try to keep it simple. I hear. I see. I dig. I find. And often for some odd reason I seem to make my best finds by wandering and not gridding. Kind'a going with your gut feeling or ESP or whatever you want to call it and just do what feels right. Can't tell you how many times I've wandered through an area and right away found silver, then gridding off the entire area carefully and not even a wheat penny turns up. Happens too many times to where I start to wonder if it's just pure luck or something else going on. I know, it's luck...

Others I'm sure differ and would really like being able to do the GPS thing, but again there are phones for that. I sort of feel that since GPS is already a feature on a lot of phones it would be nice to be able to buy this machine without that feature for several hundred dollars less. I also heard concerns voiced by somebody that PERHAPS cramming that much electronics into a detector MIGHT (Again, this is mindless speculation at it's finest!) cause more EMI noise on the circuit board (EMI doesn't just come from outside sources, but can result from internal electronics) and result in not being able to run the sensitivity as hot as say an Etrac, and thus perhaps get less depth.

Now how's that for blatant irresponsible speculation that I'm sure won't turn out to be true in any shape, way, or form. Just remember I'm only repeating it and didn't come up with it on my own. I'm sure it won't be true in the least.