"Interpreting Target Trace"

[Des D]

Hi all,

I'm writing a short piece on the way I interpret my Target Trace display which I hope to share with you very soon.

Good Hunting

Des D

 

["Dr.Tones"]

Look forward to reading it

 

[mtwolf2270]

Thanks for taking the time to put something together the classroom needs so new stuff!

 

[Des D]

Hi all,

I'm writing a short piece on the way I interpret my Target Trace display which I hope to share with you very soon.

Good Hunting

Des D

Hi all,

I hope this short paper will be of help to my fellow CTX searchers!
It's how I interpret what I am being shown...
The way the Illustrations uploaded, please read # 1 from top left 1937 quarter, next over "curved item", next is the "trash alloyed item,"
next row left is the "crowncap", next over is the "cartridge / shell" and last on the bottom right is the "tiny gilded button"

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

Des D

 

[Des D]

Hi again,

This photo shows the targets as detailed in the body of text in the previous post.
Again, my apology in the way the screenshots didn't line-uo properly...
If you have any Q.s just ask!

Des D

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

But,

While the snow was flying I was out in my yard playing with my CTX, and did some experiments similar to what you have posted. For years I've encouraged explorer family owners to set a nail on top of a silver coin. When the nail is directly aligned with the center web of the coil you can get a very nice obviously digable signal. If you rotate even slightly so the nail is now bisecting the center web so the coin no longer hangs out farther just a null. At only one angle and 180 degrees opposite will you get a signal. And that is why we still pull coins from iron infested grounds no matter how many times it has been detected; if you are the one to hunt it at a certain angle you can get a signal that everyone else missed.

I did the same experiment with the CTX in target trace ferrous mode. I was able to get the target trace to show a strong silver signal at any orientation of coil to nail/coin combination. The machine knew something besides iron was there. I was blown away, as this could open a whole ton of previously undetectable targets. As soon as I removed the silver quarter it showed only iron. When I got out of pinpoint mode and to regular coin discrimination pattern.... Nada. It would only get a signal in the same orientation as the previous models of explorer, the nail had to be directly in line with the center web or only a null. Switching to open screen got slight chirps here and there but nothing that would make you stop and dig.

I then tried some detecting in the yard I've detected a million times over. When I got any kind of iffy signal I switched to target trace. On some targets I also saw a strong trace in the proper area for a coin, in some cases as strong as I had just witnessed with the silver quarter under the nail. I excitedly dug for these, often several nails in close proximity, removed them and reswept. I found when I removed a small rounded piece of iron I no longer got the "good" reading on the target trace.

So although it will show a coin/nail combo it also seems suspectable to run of the mill iron falsing. And the fact that it gives no better indication of a target than the older models running standard operation modes means that at the moment this isn't really a easily usable feature. Not at all sure that you could detect just running in trace mode.

But... Minelab has a detector that CAN give an indication on a good target that the older machines could/did not, perhaps the software can be tweeked further to enhance this feature.

I'm still way too new the machine to have tried many of the features and will continue to experiment.

But as of now several inches of snow and cold enough for the ground to freeze solid soon.

Chris

 

[Des D]

But,

While the snow was flying I was out in my yard playing with my CTX, and did some experiments similar to what you have posted. For years I've encouraged explorer family owners to set a nail on top of a silver coin. When the nail is directly aligned with the center web of the coil you can get a very nice obviously digable signal. If you rotate even slightly so the nail is now bisecting the center web so the coin no longer hangs out farther just a null. At only one angle and 180 degrees opposite will you get a signal. And that is why we still pull coins from iron infested grounds no matter how many times it has been detected; if you are the one to hunt it at a certain angle you can get a signal that everyone else missed.

I did the same experiment with the CTX in target trace ferrous mode. I was able to get the target trace to show a strong silver signal at any orientation of coil to nail/coin combination. The machine knew something besides iron was there. I was blown away, as this could open a whole ton of previously undetectable targets. As soon as I removed the silver quarter it showed only iron. When I got out of pinpoint mode and to regular coin discrimination pattern.... Nada. It would only get a signal in the same orientation as the previous models of explorer, the nail had to be directly in line with the center web or only a null. Switching to open screen got slight chirps here and there but nothing that would make you stop and dig.

I then tried some detecting in the yard I've detected a million times over. When I got any kind of iffy signal I switched to target trace. On some targets I also saw a strong trace in the proper area for a coin, in some cases as strong as I had just witnessed with the silver quarter under the nail. I excitedly dug for these, often several nails in close proximity, removed them and reswept. I found when I removed a small rounded piece of iron I no longer got the "good" reading on the target trace.

So although it will show a coin/nail combo it also seems suspectable to run of the mill iron falsing. And the fact that it gives no better indication of a target than the older models running standard operation modes means that at the moment this isn't really a easily usable feature. Not at all sure that you could detect just running in trace mode.

But... Minelab has a detector that CAN give an indication on a good target that the older machines could/did not, perhaps the software can be tweeked further to enhance this feature.

I'm still way too new the machine to have tried many of the features and will continue to experiment.

But as of now several inches of snow and cold enough for the ground to freeze solid soon.

Chris

Greetings Chris,

Thanks for an intelligent / logical insight: clearly you fully understand the conundrum/s...

No. I don't always detect in FC nor do I run the TT the entire time either.
There are times when each feature can come into play and "untangle" some extra or crucial information for me.

Can I wish you on this Christmas Eve a very Merry Christmas!

Good Hunting (when your ground thaws)

Des Dunne

 

[silverchef]

Awesome write up! Thank you. I really needed this.

 

[goldshield]

Hello Des and All

First off let me just say that I am completely new to this hobby (and this forum) however I was always interested but never had the time. To make a long story short, after much reading (but apparently not enough though) I went and purchased a CTX3030. Honestly, I have had only two very short sessions in my back yard with the machine and, I think that I am in over my head. I have only the vaguest understanding of this machine and quite honestly the instruction manual is severely lacking in my view and assumes that one has a good solid background in the operation of these machines. Now, I wonder perhaps I should have got a something more basic like a Sov GT or something else like that but anyway.... here I be.... a bigshot with one of the most expensive machines on the market and its like trying to read Moby Dick in Chinese.

Anyway... getting back to my point.... I have to say Des that your post on Interpreting the target trace is more informative then most of the minelab manual for the 3030. Its written like a professional wrote it. I had no clue what the colors on the display meant until I saw your article and the manual does not go into any detail at all. The post was just great and I am looking forward hopefully to more.

I just have one question regarding the CTX display screen graphics you have posted .. does the order go from left to right and then down to the next two on the bottom , again left to right? I know the first one you refer to is the 1937 quarter because you indicate the FE11 so I am assuming that the next item you refer to is just to the right and so on and so forth.

PS... If you are anyone know any further posts (or videos) that can help me like this post does please let me know ... The CTX looks like a really nice machine and I really don't want to have to sell it and start looking for another one.

Thanks
Fred S. NJ-USA

 

[Ronin]

Fred;
Don't get discouraged. You have a great machine don't let it intimidate you
Just start with the basic programs and learn the sounds and the corresponding
numbers. don't worry about the finer points of target traces and such till you learn the
basics. find someone else that out can go out with who can show you the ropes.

Rick

 

[Larry (IL)]

Welcome to the forum Fred and congratulations on your choice of detectors. Rick has some very good advise for someone just getting started with the hobby, you have to learn the basics first. There is nothing wrong with starting out in the stock coins program and just going out and having fun finding targets. The more targets you dig (good and bad) the more you will understand what the CTX is telling you, not only on the display but the audio as well.

Most of us hunt for the fun of it, the relaxation and to clear our minds of everyday problems........ an escape so to speak. Take your time in learning, there is a lot to learn on a very advanced detector. Good luck and HAVE FUN.

 

[goldshield]

Thank You Rick and Larry for that very nice warm welcome and the advice and frankly, that seems like good solid advice. As for the basics.. I did figure out how to install the battery & turn on the machine LOL. As for hunting for the "fun of it" I cant agree more ... the last 8 years have been just off the charts stressful and I figured that this would be a nice hobby and a way to unwind and relax. Unfortunately, the opposite happened during one of my two back your learning sessions. What happened was that I had on several occasions prior went out in the yard and found a very strong target (no time to dig it though). I had done this three separate times and the target was always in the same exact place.. I believe that it read around 12.03 and about 6 to 9 inches on each turn. I got very excited and finally the day came where I had time to actually dig it out. I was finally going to get some treasure even if it was a giant nail or something the cat coughed up. Well.. I dug and dug and dug down at least 12 inches and guess what... the target signal disappeared! I sifted through the dug up dirt with the pin pointer & 3030 and nothing! ... not a thing! Filled in the hole and went back inside totally deflated. That's when I really knew that this was not going to be as easy as I thought it would be...LOL. Ok.... thanks again and hope that you enjoyed my first adventure!

Fred in NJ

 

[sparkster]

Gold shield: that invisible target syndrome hits all new detectorists. It will happen again, don't worry about it.
I have been detecting for 3.5 years and it still happens to me once in a great while.

I consider myself a proficient detectorist with the AT Pro and MXT. I know what I will dig before I dig it. Not so
With the CTX. I'm new to minelab detectors, so I'm really in the same boat you are experience wise.

Like everyone is telling you, have a good time, don't stress about your hobby. Turn the machine on, select coins
And start hunting for a target that reads 12-35 to 12-45. Even If you get an 11-35 to 11-45 dig them all. There is some
Kind of un written rule that the ferrous number (11 or 12 in this case), may vary by one or two numbers, up or down and still be considered a disable target.
So you may even want to dig a 10-40 or a 13-40 when you first start out.

It has been my experience that the ferrous number can vary a little, but if I get a number like 11-44 or 13-45 I'm digging it because bit is
Probably a dime or a quarter. If you do not understand ferrous and conductive ask someone on here.

Practice by throwing some coins out on the ground and see what they read in both coins patterns. You will learn this very fast by doing it.

There is no need to sell your machine and get an easier one. Just hang in there, read this forum, view you tube videos, ask the pros on this forum
Questions and practice. Get the book called beach hunting with the CTX 3030. It is suppose the explain the operating system, basically. I have it on order.

Have a great time with the new hobby. Remember you are not alone, and enjoy yourself.

 

[brother steve]

Des, Great job on the trace! My question is how do you read a bolt out of trace 5? I hunt a place with a lot of iron junk and I am always digging nails and other junk. Sometimes it has silver tone qualities and looks good on the screen but ends up iron. This happens more when the soil is wet. Thanks!

 

[Des D]

brother steve,

Thanks for reminding me...I never did put up the ferrous bolt trace display Snapshot...my apology.
Here it is shown below.
My thoughts on the "wet" reference is, sometimes both hot rocks and ferrous bits can literally "saturate" with moisture (rain and/or wet soil) and appear haloed...
That is they can appear bigger than what they really are to the detector procesing the information as it scans along...and the magnetic effect of the ferrous piece can also be enhanced?
Search the site bone dry in a summer heatwave and it mightn't register a blip! That's the way it is with iron...
With hot rocks the same can apply - a positive hit in wet soil and no response in dry, or when the actual rock is either totally wet or completely dry!
This is more noticable with single and dual frequency units...most BBS and FBS systems do a great job of ignoring hot rocks.

To help explain the Snapshot this is what I said about the iron bolt with collar on top.

Good Hunting

Des D

This target came from one of my regular test spots that had at one time a lot of corrugated shedding which is now completely gone from view and quite a bit of the site is now liberally seeded with rusting parts. This is a typical example of a large rusty iron bolt with a rounded collar tip to it which, has put up both ferrous and non-ferrous components but has clearly shown more ferrous trace than non ferrous.
The really interesting thing is two cursors are displayed one above the other again indicating what could be two different targets. But, it is clearly a single target and as stated the top has a round part to it with a washer between the tip and the actual bolt that thereby resembles a coin. However, I knew ahead of time just what I had because the tone settings used at the time produced high pitched sounds on ferrous items.
The other clue is the Trace is clung up against the right hand side almost as if it wants to go even further off the screen, again a strong indicator of a large junk item.

 

[brother steve]

Thanks,Des!

 

[DaytonaGold]

Fantastic read Des D, your info really shed a lot of light on this subject for me. Kudos to you and keep up the great work !!!

 

[sparkster]

DES D:

That was the best instructional piece I have seen on target trace. Matter of fact it is the only one I have seen that I could actually understand.
Thank you for sharing you knowledge with us first time mane lab users.

I appreciate all of your effort.

 

[Col Douglas]

Thanks Des. I've been struggling with the black art of Target Trace and your article is a great help.

Regards,

Col Douglas