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Kicked out of my favorite park!!!:rant: :hot::rage:
- Thread starter Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO
- Start date
I sincerely hope you and your friends can help her see the light.
Always makes me laugh when people think we damage the grass. That tough grass will be around a lot longer than any of us. That's why they plant it in the parks.
If we do so much damage, where are all the scars?
Good luck!
Always makes me laugh when people think we damage the grass. That tough grass will be around a lot longer than any of us. That's why they plant it in the parks.
If we do so much damage, where are all the scars?
Good luck!
Mike, great recounting of the issue. You did the right thing. If you had cowered away, they simply get reinforced that they can stop people from even picking their own noses, if it were left up to them!
All of this whole thing is why I don't even hunt parks anymore in front of any people or traffic. I've even gone so far as to get the park's dept. maintenance schedules, and only hit parks when it's the off-days. Heck, I even hunt at night a lot now, just for these reaons. Even for those that think they somehow need "permission" to hunt public non-historic innocuous parks, are not immune to these types of busy-bodies. Ie.: what good does ones "permission" do? And since when does one need permission in the first place? Sheesk, I just go at off-hours, and "out of site is out of mind".
All of this whole thing is why I don't even hunt parks anymore in front of any people or traffic. I've even gone so far as to get the park's dept. maintenance schedules, and only hit parks when it's the off-days. Heck, I even hunt at night a lot now, just for these reaons. Even for those that think they somehow need "permission" to hunt public non-historic innocuous parks, are not immune to these types of busy-bodies. Ie.: what good does ones "permission" do? And since when does one need permission in the first place? Sheesk, I just go at off-hours, and "out of site is out of mind".
[quote Tom_in_CA]All of this whole thing is why I don't even hunt parks anymore in front of any people or traffic. I've even gone so far as to get the park's dept. maintenance schedules, and only hit parks when it's the off-days. Heck, I even hunt at night a lot now, just for these reaons. Even for those that think they somehow need "permission" to hunt public non-historic innocuous parks, are not immune to these types of busy-bodies. Ie.: what good does ones "permission" do? And since when does one need permission in the first place? Sheesk, I just go at off-hours, and "out of site is out of mind".[/quote]
I do that a lot too but it doesn't always work that well. Below is an excerpt from what I posted in the Sov forum a month or two ago about an experience I had detecting about 1 a.m.
==
I was all excited about this tiny area [had just found my first SLQ] but then my excitement was interrupted and turned to another kind with the arrival of the police. I'd just determined via the Sun Ray probe that an iffy signal was iron when I hear a few vehicles pass behind me. I think I must have heard them slow down because I turned to look to see a police SUV and car slowing down to a stop a little ways past me. Since I wasn't doing anything wrong and I've not had much issue with the police in town before (beyond an occasional "What are you doing?" out their window or a slow down to see) I just went back to what I was doing. I put the dirt back in and was dropping the plug down when I heard a voice or voices behind me. Figuring it must be the police, I started to turn around to talk to them when I heard two voices yelling "HANDS IN THE AIR". I quickly put my hands in the air. (Duh!) Can't recall exactly the order of what happened after that but I must have taken my headphones off and, when one told me to come down to the edge of the wall where they were I started to pick up my shaft (since it's attached to the control box on my chest) I got another "HANDS IN THE AIR". Fun, fun, fun. It all worked out okay but was a pain in the posterior. Turns out some neighbors--who I'd seen come home 5-10 minutes earlier--called in and said, according to the most vocal (young more-aggressive) officer that I was "burying something in the snow". (There was no snow but it was due to start snowing soon.)
==
I presume their guns were drawn but I never saw.
I do that a lot too but it doesn't always work that well. Below is an excerpt from what I posted in the Sov forum a month or two ago about an experience I had detecting about 1 a.m.
==
I was all excited about this tiny area [had just found my first SLQ] but then my excitement was interrupted and turned to another kind with the arrival of the police. I'd just determined via the Sun Ray probe that an iffy signal was iron when I hear a few vehicles pass behind me. I think I must have heard them slow down because I turned to look to see a police SUV and car slowing down to a stop a little ways past me. Since I wasn't doing anything wrong and I've not had much issue with the police in town before (beyond an occasional "What are you doing?" out their window or a slow down to see) I just went back to what I was doing. I put the dirt back in and was dropping the plug down when I heard a voice or voices behind me. Figuring it must be the police, I started to turn around to talk to them when I heard two voices yelling "HANDS IN THE AIR". I quickly put my hands in the air. (Duh!) Can't recall exactly the order of what happened after that but I must have taken my headphones off and, when one told me to come down to the edge of the wall where they were I started to pick up my shaft (since it's attached to the control box on my chest) I got another "HANDS IN THE AIR". Fun, fun, fun. It all worked out okay but was a pain in the posterior. Turns out some neighbors--who I'd seen come home 5-10 minutes earlier--called in and said, according to the most vocal (young more-aggressive) officer that I was "burying something in the snow". (There was no snow but it was due to start snowing soon.)
==
I presume their guns were drawn but I never saw.
Mick in Dubbo
New member
n/t
I would also be inclined to a letter to the Editor of the largest newspaper in the area.. I know your thinking what an a$$$ but if you do not let the officers above them know whats going on in the field they may never know. The newspaper will just let the general public be aware of how the parks are being ran....It never hurts to be informative with issues of concern....In fact at anytime a weapon is drawn or indicated in a threatening manner a report has to be filed..I would imagine the report they wrote would be slightly slanted to make them look real good...You might mention the original person not identified to you as an employee and her attitude...I would think a tax based dependent entity would be more respectful of the citizens..Just my take...It's certainly your call.
Andrus(ut)
New member
n/t
Big Fang Coin Biter
New member
Good luck getting things straightened out. I had a similar experience at an old picnic grounds. It is owned by a local tribe of Indians and has a sign that says no drugs or alcohol allowed all others welcome. I figured that meant me too. I have hunted the area to the point that very little is left but the last hunt a county police officer accused me of GRAVE ROBBING! There is a cemetery which is fenced off from the rest of the grounds. I do not hunt in the cemetery. Anyway he snuck up behind me and yelled out my name, accused me of grave robbing and proceeded to tell me that the entire four acre site is a graveyard! I could see he was going to be an a@@ so I did the yes-sir. He calmed down by the time we left. Pi$$ed me off though. What can you do?
Take care and HH - Robin
Take care and HH - Robin
Benn hunting here with permission since the 70's. Even the police would tell me where to try and some hunted also. Well I got called in and even the city cops showed up. What they all need is more mood modifying drugs from the doctors and more home land security laws, then we can all wear our under wear on the out side so they can check. I got it from a reliable source last week that good old pasturied milk is causing all this add/adhd stuff and the mood modifing drugs perscribed by MD's are causing neuro trasmitter problems envolved with the insane crime going on around the country.
Happy Days.
Happy Days.
We need some public service commercials to inform the public of our service to them, their trashy parks and jagged glass filled swimming holes. I don't know why Whites, ML and First Texas and such don't consider doing such a thing. They could easily sneak in a comment or two about how metal detecting helps the environment while pitching their wares. Good thing it wasn't me Mike, I would have said something smart and probably would still be in the clinker. You handled it well.
mattockman
New member
If I heard an officer yelling out FREEZE BIG FANG COIN BITER I would have to laugh............ I am sorry. 
I know first hand what Mike has gone through. A few years ago the New York State Archaeologists tried to shut down my TV series. I ended up in a battle with the Arkies and the State of NY. I had to hire an attorney to defend myself against something where I had not broken the law. Since that time I have schooled myself on the laws of Antiquites, Archaeologists, State Laws, Lawyers, and our judicial system and the Constitution. I have talked with others who have challeneged the ARPA laws, as well as the NHPA. What I am finding is that the so called laws of antiquities, the codes of our cities, towns and villages that deal with metal detecting, digging, bottle hunting, rock collecting, etc, may in fact be illegal, and against what the Constitution is all about. Going back to 1906, when Teddy Roosevelt signed in to Law the Archaeolocial Resource Preservation Act, he did so by an Executive Order. According to the Constitution, Executive Orders are only to be called into order and approved by congress. The ARPA law may have been in direct violation of the Constitution because Teddy R had moved away from the Constitutions original mandate which is the First Amendment rights.
In addition, if the time ever comes again for me to challenge the ARPA law (my lawyer talked me out of it and the cost was too high) which in fact has been the thread that has led to all of these ambiguous codes in our cities, I will do so, and so should you.
Our court system with jurors acting as our judges, not the judges, would throw half these laws out the windows if they had a chance. And remember, jurors have the right by law, to question not only a plea, but also the law, as well as the judges involved in a case. You don't need a lawyer to get in front of a jury of your peers.
Any person in the United States can bring a test case aginst any law he or she believes unconstitutional. The problem is this. People do not understand their rights. They believe what the statas quo says. People have a tendency to follow the herd, don't step on toes, the government is our big brother, the laws are written in stone, let someone else fight the fight, instead of understanding that the government and the politicians who make the laws can be had. Hey folks, don't just take my word for this. Do your own research and post on forums what you find out. Let others know that they need to form a consenses of others that will no longer just sit in neutral while our rights our taken from us.
Anyone can contact me through my website.
Frank
In addition, if the time ever comes again for me to challenge the ARPA law (my lawyer talked me out of it and the cost was too high) which in fact has been the thread that has led to all of these ambiguous codes in our cities, I will do so, and so should you.
Our court system with jurors acting as our judges, not the judges, would throw half these laws out the windows if they had a chance. And remember, jurors have the right by law, to question not only a plea, but also the law, as well as the judges involved in a case. You don't need a lawyer to get in front of a jury of your peers.
Any person in the United States can bring a test case aginst any law he or she believes unconstitutional. The problem is this. People do not understand their rights. They believe what the statas quo says. People have a tendency to follow the herd, don't step on toes, the government is our big brother, the laws are written in stone, let someone else fight the fight, instead of understanding that the government and the politicians who make the laws can be had. Hey folks, don't just take my word for this. Do your own research and post on forums what you find out. Let others know that they need to form a consenses of others that will no longer just sit in neutral while our rights our taken from us.
Anyone can contact me through my website.
Frank
Hard Nosed Dave
New member
Hi Frank,
I've no affiliation with the law and I find what you have informed us about VERY interesting, to say the least.
Not having had a need to yet, but I am sure that I will encounter such confrontation eventually, on what is known as public open space and crown land vested in the interest of the local council. Parks vacant land and the such.
I think what you have mentioned is so true and I am going to see if I can apply such a democratic right to our use of such land, in the event that I have to, for retrieving buried targets with a metal detector, here in the capital city of Western Australia.
I believe their are some park gardeners, rangers and private security guards over here, who seem to sometimes over state their importance over our rights on how we should use a PUBLICLY owned park or reserve. Fancy being NOT allowed to use a public park to retrieve a small lost metal object with a minimum of fuss or "damage" as they might want to call it, from a lawn that we, as the public in a "democracy" are supposed to have the use off. So long as you are not creating a public nuisance or endanger life, what could be wrong with it? I think it's mainly based on the accusers stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, mis information , envy and the necessity to again "paint us all with the same tar brash" as being the MAIN problem.
As many of us are aware, we, as people who make up the public and who have chosen to indulge in a hobby such as metal detecting, that gets many of us in and around a public reserve to search with metal detectors for lost metal objects that MIGHT happen to be there, are actually the least of the problem folk they should be concerned with.
Provided we have used discretion in how we leave the state of the ground of such public places(covering any holes and removing trash that is recovered as if is left there it can possibly become a public liability issue). If it can be proven one had left a hole, loose dirt or trash to trip over or for trash dug up that might get caught in a lawn mower and flung at somebody or damage the machinery, then the onus of responsibility may rest with an authority or it's servants who would some how feel it should prevent any of these occurrences. Hence , giving us the chits about it. It may be pedantic and over zealous BUT where is the "line" drawn?
On the other hand, I also feel they should in actual fact be THANKING us for being there. Rewarding or even paying us to be there. It's probably the only way, in some cases, they will get decent law abiding folk to come to there phuking parks and use them at times to the exclusion to the trouble makers how might be there when these people who call themselves the "authorities" might not. I'm not suggesting we are should or may be dooing their job for them BUT we are not to be considered a problem like Mike has described how he might have been to that foolish "lady" who had the balls to creep up on him......
Anyhow, thank you very much for the info.
I think it's going to be very useful even to me here on the Aussie West Coast.
David E Di Prospero
I've no affiliation with the law and I find what you have informed us about VERY interesting, to say the least.
Not having had a need to yet, but I am sure that I will encounter such confrontation eventually, on what is known as public open space and crown land vested in the interest of the local council. Parks vacant land and the such.
I think what you have mentioned is so true and I am going to see if I can apply such a democratic right to our use of such land, in the event that I have to, for retrieving buried targets with a metal detector, here in the capital city of Western Australia.
I believe their are some park gardeners, rangers and private security guards over here, who seem to sometimes over state their importance over our rights on how we should use a PUBLICLY owned park or reserve. Fancy being NOT allowed to use a public park to retrieve a small lost metal object with a minimum of fuss or "damage" as they might want to call it, from a lawn that we, as the public in a "democracy" are supposed to have the use off. So long as you are not creating a public nuisance or endanger life, what could be wrong with it? I think it's mainly based on the accusers stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, mis information , envy and the necessity to again "paint us all with the same tar brash" as being the MAIN problem.
As many of us are aware, we, as people who make up the public and who have chosen to indulge in a hobby such as metal detecting, that gets many of us in and around a public reserve to search with metal detectors for lost metal objects that MIGHT happen to be there, are actually the least of the problem folk they should be concerned with.
Provided we have used discretion in how we leave the state of the ground of such public places(covering any holes and removing trash that is recovered as if is left there it can possibly become a public liability issue). If it can be proven one had left a hole, loose dirt or trash to trip over or for trash dug up that might get caught in a lawn mower and flung at somebody or damage the machinery, then the onus of responsibility may rest with an authority or it's servants who would some how feel it should prevent any of these occurrences. Hence , giving us the chits about it. It may be pedantic and over zealous BUT where is the "line" drawn?
On the other hand, I also feel they should in actual fact be THANKING us for being there. Rewarding or even paying us to be there. It's probably the only way, in some cases, they will get decent law abiding folk to come to there phuking parks and use them at times to the exclusion to the trouble makers how might be there when these people who call themselves the "authorities" might not. I'm not suggesting we are should or may be dooing their job for them BUT we are not to be considered a problem like Mike has described how he might have been to that foolish "lady" who had the balls to creep up on him......
Anyhow, thank you very much for the info.
I think it's going to be very useful even to me here on the Aussie West Coast.
David E Di Prospero
Pete in MI
New member
once I was approached and asked to leave a county park. I contacted the head of the county parks system and asked very politely for his explanation and understanding of the use of detectors in his parks. I wanted plain English even an idiot could understand.
I explained I had been kicked out of one of the parks because there was a misunderstaning of the legalese of the policies of the park. I asked if he would clearly make it understood to me so I would not tread on policies by accident or by misunderstanding. I also asked if a problem arose, if there was a phone number he could be reached at.
He was happy that I was asking politely and for clarification. He sent me an email explaining everything in clear English that any of his people and I could understand. He provided a phone number as well. I thanked him in a letter for his time and most courteous assistance.
I made several more trips to the park I was kicked out of. 3 of those times I was met my a parks person telling me to get out or they'd call the police...one even brought out a laminated sheet of the park policy on detecting in the park....and misinterpreting the legal babble trying to prove his point.
I countered with a copy of the letter from the head of the parks department. I read it to him. I gave him a copy. I said he could keep the copy (I gave the others a copy when they harrassed me as well) and said if you wish to call the police be my guest. I asked if I should call the head of the parks department with my cell phone so he could talk to him about this or could he leave me to continue the pursuit of my hobby....he left. After those 3 encounters with the parks people and each got a copy of the letter...the harrassment stopped and I was able to detect in peace.
Sometimes you have to keep a few steps ahead of them. Most of these people are part time college people in the county parks who get over zealous with thier 'authority'....real or imagined.
Hope things go well with the head of the parks department. Probably by now he has been tainted by the witch and the gun carrying mob.
I explained I had been kicked out of one of the parks because there was a misunderstaning of the legalese of the policies of the park. I asked if he would clearly make it understood to me so I would not tread on policies by accident or by misunderstanding. I also asked if a problem arose, if there was a phone number he could be reached at.
He was happy that I was asking politely and for clarification. He sent me an email explaining everything in clear English that any of his people and I could understand. He provided a phone number as well. I thanked him in a letter for his time and most courteous assistance.
I made several more trips to the park I was kicked out of. 3 of those times I was met my a parks person telling me to get out or they'd call the police...one even brought out a laminated sheet of the park policy on detecting in the park....and misinterpreting the legal babble trying to prove his point.
I countered with a copy of the letter from the head of the parks department. I read it to him. I gave him a copy. I said he could keep the copy (I gave the others a copy when they harrassed me as well) and said if you wish to call the police be my guest. I asked if I should call the head of the parks department with my cell phone so he could talk to him about this or could he leave me to continue the pursuit of my hobby....he left. After those 3 encounters with the parks people and each got a copy of the letter...the harrassment stopped and I was able to detect in peace.
Sometimes you have to keep a few steps ahead of them. Most of these people are part time college people in the county parks who get over zealous with thier 'authority'....real or imagined.
Hope things go well with the head of the parks department. Probably by now he has been tainted by the witch and the gun carrying mob.
Big Fang Coin Biter
New member
n/t
Hi David, I was under the impression that your country was more tolerant of metal detector users. I do agree with everything you stated. We must remember that the laws regarding Archaeology have been pushed onto us by the greed of the Archaeologists themselves. Wouldn't they be shocked if it ever turns out that the profession of Archaeology itself is illegal.
Never give up, and never give in to political ideology
Frank
Never give up, and never give in to political ideology
Frank
Sorry to hear about your trouble. I have had similar problems twice . It prompted me to immediately go to the top of command and over ride these individuals. You have to be political about this in a calm manner. We have every right to metal detect OUR park system.
OUR public lands for we are the people. These lands were set for our responsible recreation and enjoyments. By all means don't hesitate in meeting with the top people in charge. hear their concerns in a polite manner. Let them know we want the parks to stay nice also we are also very concerned. If we don't stand up for the rights we are entitled us future detecting will be eliminated.
Vern
OUR public lands for we are the people. These lands were set for our responsible recreation and enjoyments. By all means don't hesitate in meeting with the top people in charge. hear their concerns in a polite manner. Let them know we want the parks to stay nice also we are also very concerned. If we don't stand up for the rights we are entitled us future detecting will be eliminated.
Vern