mattockman
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n/t
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Kicked out of my favorite park!!!:rant: :hot::rage:
- Thread starter Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO
- Start date
mattockman
New member
n/t
mattockman
New member
Because this is what I think about a fairground that is posted NO METALDETECTING!!!!......I think the owners get it all......it has been around for well over 100 years and someone just happen to privatize the fair property and banned detecting there......can you imagine all the stuff they find.....HOLY MOLeY!....it is one of the oldest here in NH.....Deerfield fair......I found the website and read and read but never did I read about no detecting so I drove out there and first thing I see is the sign right on the big Wooden/metal/ barbed wire fence......Why didn't they just post it on the website......it would have save me gas and time......just another thing to get me peeved!
mattockman
New member
all well said but unfortunately things are getting bad in the world and its hard to distiguish who is a threat and who is not.....so I feel for the law and would never want their job and I am glad to hear that Mike got an apology from the Ranger......I am sure it was the way the woman discribed the situation that led to this ordeal......unfortunatly we cannot screen all employees of the parks system...she is the one that squeeked thru!!!!
mattockman
New member
I Love you man!......It must be the mask.....I have always liked Zorro!......what we need is more men like you to be running for offices......More fore fathers of this country.....Jefferson, Franklin and Washingtons, please step forward.....I do not like the canadite choices we have this year.........OK....I would have voted for Franklin......but he never got elected.....
Hello Mike, I'm sorry to hear of the trouble that you encountered in Forest Park and hope that you can resolve the problem with management. We have gone through the same problem here in Louisville Ky with those power happy city workers but we have always been able to resolve the problem with higher authorities.We carry with us copies of emails from the higher authorities that seem and has in the past calm down and satisfy the sadsacks. Keep us posted on the outcome. I was thinking about coming out this spring to do some genealogy and hopefully some detecting!! May GOD bless the situation!! HH EddieB
Mike, unfortunately you're on the defense at this time because of this nasty wench, but the good news is that you can move yourself to the offense. First, you're going to have to suck up alot when you talk to this head ranger, find out from others about him, and try to find something in common, casually mention it right away when you meet him and say it as you're shaking hands with him. 2nd, share the ranger's concern about possible damage to the grass but then say since you're an avid gardner and avid historian regarding the history of the park, you have taken your own measures throughout the years to ensure that the park is preserved, that's when you take out of your knapsack/bag a ziplock bag of grass seed and pictures of other visitor's damage along with a kitchen trash bag that you use to pick up misc. trash. You're showing this guy how much you love this park. You're opening line after you shake hands can be something like "It's unfortunate that it happened like this for me to meet you but it's a good thing in a way because I'm finally able to meet you to clear things up" then when you can say, "Gee, it seems like the gal I met was having a bad day before meeting me, I heard her yelling at someone else but didn't realize she was a ranger cause I've never heard a ranger yell at anyone at the park ever. They're always so nice to talk to. This my friend is the 'offense' and it usually works. I had a clerk magistrate give me a 5 minute speech about the accuracy of radar guns and after his speech I looked at him and said 'Sir, you know what?" he questioned "What?" I said, Sir, you are soo right (pause) but it's a fact when the vehicle behind the subject vehicle is larger then the radar picks up the speed of the larger object" He was stunned and I then whipped out my pictures and started talking about the long horn cattle in the field by the incident (I found out that he liked that farm) - well, I left without having to pay the ticket. Stay on the offense and remember folks, there seems to be a lot of extremists out there, sometimes you can reason with them and sometimes you have to walk away and head it off at the pass i.e, go to the principle's office first before you get hauled in there by someone else. Good luck.
silvernail
New member
My opinion would be considered sexist and unprintable these days so I won't give it.
dirtfishing
New member
When did City Park Rangers start Packing Heat?
...........then again, I guess you are in St Louis!!........Good luck man, hope it all gets worked out.
...........then again, I guess you are in St Louis!!........Good luck man, hope it all gets worked out.
John - Maryland
Member
That's very true Bob. But I wasn't even given a chance to prove my innocents.
Mike, I am sorry to hear that you had a problem in the St. Louis park. I hear from people all over the country who have had similar problems with local authorities. Please visit my page here for more info.
Here is what you or anyone else should do in that situation.
Ask to see the law that details why you need to leave. If the authorities show you and ordinance or a code, tell them you do not want to see the local code or ordinance, and that you demand to see the law. Codes and ordinances are not law under the Constitution.
Here's what I have done.
First, never give your name or personal info until you ask the officer these questions.
When stopped, I ask them to identify themselves as a law enforcement officer. If they answer yes, just say, I will gladly tell you my name after you answer these questions.
I then ask them,
<i>What is your name?
The number of your bond?
The name and address of your bonding company, or the name and address of the risk management offices that handles their bond?
are you going to write me a ticket, a summons or citation, and are you going to cite me for violating a State law? Not a B.A.R. lawyer/judge code?</i>
These questions scare them.
The fact that you know information about them and that it can be used in a court of law against them becomes more important than them giving you a ticket or throwing you off the park property.
Understand this - local lawyers, judges and police officials are violating the Constitution by enforcing codes that go against the the 1st and 14th Amendments. If you challenge them by showing them that you do know the law (read the Constitution) and by acting as a sovereign individual with rights, by asking them questions, they will back off. They have to, because codes are not laws.
All of us have to stop giving in to the local ordinances, codes, public authorities, etc and become more informed about our rights as sovereign citizens. You must realize that our privileges across the board have been slowly taken away because we believe the powers to be as the supreme rulers. That belief is not true. We are the rulers, and they the politicians, lawyers/ judges, police, etc, work for us. Again, read the Constitution and learn your rights.
<i>"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury vs Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176 (1803)</i>
BTW, I am not a lawyer.
Frank
Here is what you or anyone else should do in that situation.
Ask to see the law that details why you need to leave. If the authorities show you and ordinance or a code, tell them you do not want to see the local code or ordinance, and that you demand to see the law. Codes and ordinances are not law under the Constitution.
Here's what I have done.
First, never give your name or personal info until you ask the officer these questions.
When stopped, I ask them to identify themselves as a law enforcement officer. If they answer yes, just say, I will gladly tell you my name after you answer these questions.
I then ask them,
<i>What is your name?
The number of your bond?
The name and address of your bonding company, or the name and address of the risk management offices that handles their bond?
are you going to write me a ticket, a summons or citation, and are you going to cite me for violating a State law? Not a B.A.R. lawyer/judge code?</i>
These questions scare them.
The fact that you know information about them and that it can be used in a court of law against them becomes more important than them giving you a ticket or throwing you off the park property.
Understand this - local lawyers, judges and police officials are violating the Constitution by enforcing codes that go against the the 1st and 14th Amendments. If you challenge them by showing them that you do know the law (read the Constitution) and by acting as a sovereign individual with rights, by asking them questions, they will back off. They have to, because codes are not laws.
All of us have to stop giving in to the local ordinances, codes, public authorities, etc and become more informed about our rights as sovereign citizens. You must realize that our privileges across the board have been slowly taken away because we believe the powers to be as the supreme rulers. That belief is not true. We are the rulers, and they the politicians, lawyers/ judges, police, etc, work for us. Again, read the Constitution and learn your rights.
<i>"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury vs Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176 (1803)</i>
BTW, I am not a lawyer.
Frank
Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO
Member
At the time I specifically asked for the ordinance that bans metal detecting. Their reply was that there is one against the destruction of private property, and the second I stick an object into the ground, I am commiting an offense punishable by arrest and citation. At that point they still had their hands on their guns, and the lead guy was smoking hot and ready to tackle me and cuff me, so I didn't press the issue - that arguement is for later for his superiors to answer to. Anyway, I would have loved to point out how many parkgoers "stick objects in the ground" from volley ball nets to fishing pole holders and etc.
Believe me, I was in a mood to defend myself, but their intimidation prevented me from voicing my opinion or defense of my actions, when I tried they threatened to arrest me. Later on after they cooled their jets I did get my side of the story out and they became much more understanding of my position and even sided with me to a degree. I learned long ago, that defending yourself in the heat of the moment to a worked up authority figure is the wrong thing to do.... you have to wait until their adrenaline rush is over and they become calm. Until that moment comes, "yes sir" and "no sir" is all I say until they see that I respect them and pose no threat... then I can state my side of the misunderstanding with out the guns getting stuck in my face while I'm lying in the mud getting cuffed.
Park rangers must have a pretty mundane existance, anyway and they jump at the chance to be a "TV Hero" when the situation arises. Day after day of sitting in a squad car and giving out directions all day makes for some pent up energy I think.
Believe me, I was in a mood to defend myself, but their intimidation prevented me from voicing my opinion or defense of my actions, when I tried they threatened to arrest me. Later on after they cooled their jets I did get my side of the story out and they became much more understanding of my position and even sided with me to a degree. I learned long ago, that defending yourself in the heat of the moment to a worked up authority figure is the wrong thing to do.... you have to wait until their adrenaline rush is over and they become calm. Until that moment comes, "yes sir" and "no sir" is all I say until they see that I respect them and pose no threat... then I can state my side of the misunderstanding with out the guns getting stuck in my face while I'm lying in the mud getting cuffed.
Park rangers must have a pretty mundane existance, anyway and they jump at the chance to be a "TV Hero" when the situation arises. Day after day of sitting in a squad car and giving out directions all day makes for some pent up energy I think.
Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO
Member
That would have resulted in an illegal search and seizure lawsuit since I wasn't under arrest. The one ranger was really hesitant about giving my digger back to me... after I convinced him that I wasn't going to go nuts and stab anyone, he relented. 
Mike Moutray - St.Louis MO
Member
I've used the arguement in the past of how the grass gets impacted by dozens of activities in the park and that the city vehicles leave huge ruts in the ground when they drive through the lawns. I do mention the aerators and grading they do to promote grass growth. Last of all I mention that , if a few blades of grass die from digging an object, new ones will grow up to replace them right away.... without the city spending any time or money to do so. Destruction of property involves time and expense to remedy a collateral loss, if you want to get legal about it, and in our case it is simply impossible to prove that we cause any destruction by that legal definition. Only a complete crackpot wont agree with that.... and any court certainly wont.