Looking for a SEASONED CTX user near me (eastern panhandle WV)

[TrpnBils]

I'm looking for somebody who has some serious time on the 3030 to help me learn the nuances of hunting in iron. I have been detecting for over 10 years but have only had the 3030 for about 9 months (Etrac for 3 years before that) so I'm not new to the hobby at all, but I just haven't had that "a-ha" moment with my 3030 that i had a few good times with my Etrac that really taught me something new. I KNOW for sure that I'm not using it to its full potential because I'm mostly just digging good, solid signals. When I finally get motivated enough to dig what I call "iffy" signals, they almost always end up being junky iron so I get frustrated and just go back to listening for good, solid signals. I KNOW for sure that I'm passing good targets up because I don't know how to use the target trace to its full potential.

I'm hoping to find somebody near the eastern panhandle of WV to hunt some iron for high conductors with to see what you look for with iffy targets. I have watched countless videos on the subject multiple times, but every time somebody talks about digging "iffy" signals with the 3030, their version of "iffy" seems to me to be "a damn good sounding tone with a slight crack to it and you'd have to be stupid not to dig it". It's just something I want to see in person.

Inevitably, somebody will tell me to go watch Sube's videos. Been there, done that a BUNCH. I want to take a look at some of this in person with somebody who really knows the machine.

 

[IDXMonster]

You are spot on regarding people's use of the term "iffy". If what IM seeing on videos is "iffy" I'd hate to hear that rock solid signal,it'd probably kill me! I've come to the same conclusion...maybe any signal WORSE than what we're seeing is JUNK, and it doesn't get any iffier with a good outcome so we're just spinning the wheels trying. I posted something similar about this awhile ago and I'm glad to see the "iffy" thing come up again. I have not had the "a-ha" moment either after running the CTX all this year, maybe there isn't one....maybe it just does what it does and it's all pretty obvious to hear and see. Sube does great videos but those are a lot of really specific scenarios in controlled tests. You vary something ONE IOTA and it might be a different result. Very good examples of what CAN happen though....
On a side note....I dug two deep (6") nails with the 6" coil yesterday morning with a good target trace and 12-42 on both. Two separate digs,two bad results while using what I'm supposed to be using to identify nails. That doesn't even happen with my Explorer2 that often! I feel your pain brother....
One more side note through an edit...."open the FE line to WHERE??" And "it's just the nature of the machine,you'll dig more deep nails".....People! I can dig deep nails with my IDX! I can dig REALLY deep ones with my Explorer! I didn't get the CTX to dig a load of deep nails,I got it to NOT do that, and that's where guys like me and the OP need that one on one in person lesson. Don't get me wrong,I'm not lazy by ANY means,I'll dig like a gopher if I think there's a good target. But most times,when deep,they're not good,even with a good indication. I don't want to dig unnecessary holes,THAT is why I got the CTX.

 

[TrpnBils]

You are spot on regarding people's use of the term "iffy". If what IM seeing on videos is "iffy" I'd hate to hear that rock solid signal,it'd probably kill me! I've come to the same conclusion...maybe any signal WORSE than what we're seeing is JUNK, and it doesn't get any iffier with a good outcome so we're just spinning the wheels trying. I posted something similar about this awhile ago and I'm glad to see the "iffy" thing come up again. I have not had the "a-ha" moment either after running the CTX all this year, maybe there isn't one....maybe it just does what it does and it's all pretty obvious to hear and see. Sube does great videos but those are a lot of really specific scenarios in controlled tests. You vary something ONE IOTA and it might be a different result. Very good examples of what CAN happen though....
On a side note....I dug two deep (6") nails with the 6" coil yesterday morning with a good target trace and 12-42 on both. Two separate digs,two bad results while using what I'm supposed to be using to identify nails. That doesn't even happen with my Explorer2 that often! I feel your pain brother....
One more side note through an edit...."open the FE line to WHERE??" And "it's just the nature of the machine,you'll dig more deep nails".....People! I can dig deep nails with my IDX! I can dig REALLY deep ones with my Explorer! I didn't get the CTX to dig a load of deep nails,I got it to NOT do that, and that's where guys like me and the OP need that one on one in person lesson. Don't get me wrong,I'm not lazy by ANY means,I'll dig like a gopher if I think there's a good target. But most times,when deep,they're not good,even with a good indication. I don't want to dig unnecessary holes,THAT is why I got the CTX.

Glad I'm not the only one in this boat. I have considered going back to my Etrac and selling my 3030 but I think that the potential with the 3030 there is too much if I can really learn it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

If you can't find a local mentor, you're just going to have to experiment on your own. I don't watch other people videos, as I always get bogged down with video/audio/editing details and then I can't focus on the "message".

I will say that the vast majority of coins are solid responses. The less solid the responses, the better the chance of it being iron junk. I have had about 50/50 luck on my version of "iffy" targets. If I can get it to respond more times than not on passes I'll dig if it says it's deeper than 5 - 6 inches.

But like you have experienced, it's difficult to convey these concepts through text. I encourage you to investigate every blip of an acceptable tone. Many of these get worse as I try to isolate them. Some of these get better and some are so/so. Watch the spot on the ground where the detector sounds off. If its responding over the same spot every pass, then dig. If that response spot is shifting around, I pass.

 

[TrpnBils]

I agree I need more field time for sure, and that's part of it. I have a 1 year old so I don't get out more than once or maybe twice per week for a couple hours at a time....a big part of it I'm sure. In the meantime I'm going to do some testing in my basement where it's a solid concrete floor with no rebar or other metal and see what happens. I certainly live in an old enough area of the country to hold good stuff, it's just hard to come by this year for whatever reason.

 

[IDXMonster]

The last paragraph of Jason's comment is key,but MY dumb ass still chases things around that I know through using other machines that I shouldn't. For example,my EX2 "develops" a signal as it is swept repetitively,it may get better and it may get worse and in some cases, it may just run out of gas completely and disappear. It must be a trait of detectors that actually have microprocessors,because my IDX certainly does NOT develop signals,whatcha hear is whatcha get. Coil control CAN get the signal to become more robust in that case....I think the biggest thing is the target staying in the same spot and is it a repeater most or all of the time. Watching the EXACT spot on the ground is hard to do sometimes,it takes concentration for sure,especially if there are distractions.
The thing here is,not all machines are for certain people and if the FUN is going or gone,however you define "fun",then maybe a re-think is in order. A big problem is that the poor CTX comes along and basically the only things it has to work with in these hammered parks and schools are the worst crapp targets nobody has dug because they suck. Like I said before,I've had the best silver year yet,mostly hunting these abominable targets with the CTX so there's something to it. We just have to know when to walk away from something we have used our mad skills to determine to be a POS. And there are plenty of those...

 

[TrpnBils]

,mostly hunting these abominable targets with the CTX so there's something to it.

That's where I hope to get to with mine. We don't have that many parks around here so those of us who do detect hit them hard, but I have stayed away from them in favor of private permissions because I don't feel like there's anything really left in the parks even though in the back of my mind I know that's not true...just can't find it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

,mostly hunting these abominable targets with the CTX so there's something to it.

That's where I hope to get to with mine. We don't have that many parks around here so those of us who do detect hit them hard, but I have stayed away from them in favor of private permissions because I don't feel like there's anything really left in the parks even though in the back of my mind I know that's not true...just can't find it.

All the easy targets are gone from the parks, but not all the good targets. I have that everything good I still dig from a public spot is either mixed with iron, multiple targets together, on edge, extremely deep, or some combination of those. If you want to find goods in public parks you have greatly expand your acceptable target range.

 

[TrpnBils]

you have greatly expand your acceptable target range.

Meaning what exactly?

 

[IDXMonster]

The thing I try to remember too is,and it doesn't have much to do with any machine,rather a mindset....I've pulled 25+ silver coins from the park I hit the most and have been having difficulty at. It's hosted ball games,community gatherings of all kinds,etc. since at least the 1930's. Its about a 6 acre island in the middle of a mill pond and river. When I walk away shaking my head I always think to myself, "is the last silver coin REALLY gone"? There have got to be hundreds if not thousands of silver coins left in that place,they are just that hard to find. Maybe I'm being optimistic because I have little choice and I want to hunt,but I think the reality is that they hide THAT WELL. I know I'll keep working at it as long as I can, at least the lessons learned there will be useful other places I go even if I never find another good coin there.

 

[sube]

I agree I need more field time for sure, and that's part of it. I have a 1 year old so I don't get out more than once or maybe twice per week for a couple hours at a time....a big part of it I'm sure. In the meantime I'm going to do some testing in my basement where it's a solid concrete floor with no rebar or other metal and see what happens. I certainly live in an old enough area of the country to hold good stuff, it's just hard to come by this year for whatever reason.

Now were getting somewhere this well show you what's going on I can't show all the things to look for in a short video I forget to mention a lot of things .

You will learn more here than in the field because you know what your sweeping over and how the machine reacts in certain situations .

As far as a controlled situation yes but if the iron is to big or to much of it the ctx will do the same in the field , if it sees it in target trace it well trace it if it does not it won't show it plain and simple .

I have said before get a sand box and learn you will find your answers here in the field are to many variables and you don't know what your sweeping you have to understand what nails do vertically horizontally and diagonally also what direction nails false in and where they pinpoint you well get your best education here ask me how I know .

Now audio is a different show Jason is spot on if ( AUDIO DOES NOT REPEAT IN THE SAME SPOT OR DOES NOT PINPOINT IN THAT SPOT IT"S A FALSE ) sometimes you will not get a constant repeat all the time but if it repeats most of the time dig it and if it's there when you turn 90 degrees to it defiantly dig this is the only iffy I know of , the ctx is very good at audio .

The only hard audio to find is the one that pinpoints at the front of the coil making you think it's in the center of the coil and digging in the wrong place . Only to dig and not find the target and then call it a false and leave the target . This happens when you have a iron object in front of the coin you can't get a high tone but you get a low from the iron . sube

 

[sube]

You are spot on regarding people's use of the term "iffy". If what IM seeing on videos is "iffy" I'd hate to hear that rock solid signal,it'd probably kill me! I've come to the same conclusion...maybe any signal WORSE than what we're seeing is JUNK, and it doesn't get any iffier with a good outcome so we're just spinning the wheels trying. I posted something similar about this awhile ago and I'm glad to see the "iffy" thing come up again. I have not had the "a-ha" moment either after running the CTX all this year, maybe there isn't one....maybe it just does what it does and it's all pretty obvious to hear and see. Sube does great videos but those are a lot of really specific scenarios in controlled tests. You vary something ONE IOTA and it might be a different result. Very good examples of what CAN happen though....
On a side note....I dug two deep (6") nails with the 6" coil yesterday morning with a good target trace and 12-42 on both. Two separate digs,two bad results while using what I'm supposed to be using to identify nails. That doesn't even happen with my Explorer2 that often! I feel your pain brother....
One more side note through an edit...."open the FE line to WHERE??" And "it's just the nature of the machine,you'll dig more deep nails".....People! I can dig deep nails with my IDX! I can dig REALLY deep ones with my Explorer! I didn't get the CTX to dig a load of deep nails,I got it to NOT do that, and that's where guys like me and the OP need that one on one in person lesson. Don't get me wrong,I'm not lazy by ANY means,I'll dig like a gopher if I think there's a good target. But most times,when deep,they're not good,even with a good indication. I don't want to dig unnecessary holes,THAT is why I got the CTX.

Open the screen to where I say 34 line .

Good to see your trying to learn I have to ask what happened when you turned 90 degrees to the target .

Here's what happens when you turn 90 degrees with only a nail that north south hit that you get on the surface is three hits leading edge center bar trailing edge now when that nail is 3 to 4 inches or deeper it will only be one grunt or high tone look at the curser in the bottom corner it will tell you .

If you got a double hit grunt grunt or high high then that nail is east west , the coin covered by that nail at the surface will read 12.25 to 12.35 it's true reading okay .

Now same as the north south nail above as you get deeper that grunttttt grunttttt or highhhh highhhh turns to grunt grunt or high high it starts to tighten up instead of being long like the surface nail and coin so that dead spot where that coin gets tighter to now that 12.25 to 12.35 has that false on both sides showing more 12.40s and up but that 12.35 will show on the screen when sweeping if you watch the #s watch my last video with the quarter part . You can see the #s going to 12.34 even at 6 inches deep,
iron always is 12.37 and higher where it falses no tone 12.47 to 12.50 is high tone falsing.

See where iron falses in your soil I will bet you can't build a trace at 12.35 or lower and maybe up to 12.39 .

I said it was a 12.42 which it would appear to be but this only happens when it's past 10 inches and the grunt grunt gets even closer together sounding almost as one and this does not only happen with nails but all iron long items just give a bigger dead spot compared to short iron when deep

There's so much more to this than I can tell you so I will say again (SANDBOX TIME ).

I will have to say you probably were digging a target trace false and just don't have enough time in it yet I was no different till I started really testing and seen what was going on . sube

 

[IDXMonster]

Alright,I'm going out for an hour before work in a few minutes in the 36 degree weather and drizzle because that's how rabid I am about learning this thing. I am going to try very open settings as described here and a very tight pattern with manual sensitivity as high as I can go and not drown out any little squeaks. I will report back later...

 

[TrpnBils]

Alright,I'm going out for an hour before work in a few minutes in the 36 degree weather and drizzle because that's how rabid I am about learning this thing. I am going to try very open settings as described here and a very tight pattern with manual sensitivity as high as I can go and not drown out any little squeaks. I will report back later...

....but wouldn't a really tight pattern kind of defeat the purpose since so much will be nulled out? I've always been under the impression that part of the key was as little discrimination as possible.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Glad I'm not the only one in this boat. I have considered going back to my Etrac and selling my 3030 but I think that the potential with the 3030 there is too much if I can really learn it.

No, you are not the only one. All of us had/has to go through the learning curve, not only with the CTX, but with ANY Hi-Tech detector. It takes hundreds of hours to learn how to use a new detector and to learn what it is telling you. I hated every new detector from the White's DFX on up to the CTX ............ at first. Take to heart the advise from the experts above to get you started on the right track and devote the hours, hundreds of them, the CTX will be worth your time.

 

[Bell-Two]

I was part of the discussion on Facebook on your post that has now disappeared, as Larry said it takes time to learn what it is saying. I came from an E-Trac so my learning curve was less than someone coming from an entirely different machine. I am a field hunter primarily so I deal with a lot of iron. My program is pretty simple combined with iron line at 25 fast off deep on. Use Ferrous coin and no descrimination. Target trace and target trace pinpoint. This works for me but I would never tell anyone it is the best for them. I have learned it is the tone that determines what to dig a screechy type of high tone even if it repeats is most likely iron....now I will sometimes still dig them because it might be an axe head or sad iron etc. tone can tell you a lot, a harmonic tone meaning one that gives a different tone as the coil comes off the target, "normally" means something not round .....now it may be a desirable target but most likely not a coin. The real test is when you get a high tone right in the middle of iron tones surrounding it. What I do is turn and see if it repeats. I will then slow and narrow my swing to isolate the high tone glance at target ID and then dig it....now can it may iron sure...but many times I pull out some nails or other bits of iron and I say to myself "No.that didn't give me that tone" and I will then find the high conductor that was giving the tone. Now it may still be a bit of brass ....or it can be a seated dime!

 

[IDXMonster]

A short report from this morning....tight pattern plus high disc got nothing in an hour. Hmmmm...

 

[TrpnBils]

I was part of the discussion on Facebook on your post that has now disappeared, as Larry said it takes time to learn what it is saying. I came from an E-Trac so my learning curve was less than someone coming from an entirely different machine. I am a field hunter primarily so I deal with a lot of iron. My program is pretty simple combined with iron line at 25 fast off deep on. Use Ferrous coin and no descrimination. Target trace and target trace pinpoint. This works for me but I would never tell anyone it is the best for them. I have learned it is the tone that determines what to dig a screechy type of high tone even if it repeats is most likely iron....now I will sometimes still dig them because it might be an axe head or sad iron etc. tone can tell you a lot, a harmonic tone meaning one that gives a different tone as the coil comes off the target, "normally" means something not round .....now it may be a desirable target but most likely not a coin. The real test is when you get a high tone right in the middle of iron tones surrounding it. What I do is turn and see if it repeats. I will then slow and narrow my swing to isolate the high tone glance at target ID and then dig it....now can it may iron sure...but many times I pull out some nails or other bits of iron and I say to myself "No.that didn't give me that tone" and I will then find the high conductor that was giving the tone. Now it may still be a bit of brass ....or it can be a seated dime!

Interesting - I didn't know that conversation had disappeared. That's weird...I was just looking at it this morning actually. I came from the Etrac too, which I think is why I have been so surprised at how much of a learning curve it was. The interpretation on the screen, I think because of the target trace feature, is so much more involved than I expected. That's not a bad thing, just something I need to work on. Your setup is basically what mine is most of the time, although I've been branching out and trying new stuff lately hoping to find something that might make more sense. i have noticed that I get a lot of chaos and noise at 12-39 in Ferrous-Coin, which I was told is some kind of known issue. I know that when I change off of Ferrous-Coin that noise goes away (it's a visual noise on target trace, not an actual audible noise) so I have been trying to stay off of that for awhile for that reason.

You mentioned harmonic tones....this is going to sound stupid here so stick with me....I'm assuming you're talking about tones that have a BEE-BOO (HIGH-LOW) sound as you sweep over them, right?

In your (or anyone's) experience, is it common for an iron false to show up as you circle the target at different angles, or is it pretty much just one or two ways? It seems from Sube's videos that falsing on something like a straight nail is only common if you're going lengthwise.

 

[Jason in Enid]

you have greatly expand your acceptable target range.

Meaning what exactly?

Lots of people only dig the solid, repeats-from-every-direction, tight cursor blob, types or targets. Unless you get lucky, you aren't going to find these in the hard hunted public spots. You start digging the ones where you are saying, "thats probably junk". The key there is PROBABLY. You are looking for the last crumbs left behind, you have to be content with digging more trash to find them.

 

[TrpnBils]

I know this will depend on the situation, but what is your "acceptable" range of targets? Let's say on something like an IHP. They should come in at 12-36 or so, but I know I've found them as low as 12-31 which was an eye-opener. How far do you typically see stuff swing in iron or junky situations?

you have greatly expand your acceptable target range.

Meaning what exactly?

Lots of people only dig the solid, repeats-from-every-direction, tight cursor blob, types or targets. Unless you get lucky, you aren't going to find these in the hard hunted public spots. You start digging the ones where you are saying, "thats probably junk". The key there is PROBABLY. You are looking for the last crumbs left behind, you have to be content with digging more trash to find them.