MD on National Forest property

[king-ghidorah]

I was in the Tesoro forum lurking and I read this thread started by Tesoro-Coinshooter, He said and I quote verbatim,"I really do like the Tigershark , but I live in Northern Wisconsin and pretty much all the beaches around me are on campgrounds in the National Forest. A month ago I was detecting one of them very early in the morning (it was still dark when I started) before the swimmers would start showing up , and I was filling in all my holes and removing all the junk I was digging ( some very dangerous to swimmers I might add - Nails , screws , a drill bit , sharp pieces of metal , and old fishing hooks) , when I was approached by a female game warden who told me that I was breaking the law and wanted to see my finds. She said that she could fine me , but that she would just give me a warning this time. She also said that all the beaches in the National Forest were off limits to detecting. I told here that I came very early before the swimmers showed up and looked for a sign that said no detecting allowed. I also told her that I was only digging in the sand and water and leaving the grass areas alone and that I was filling all my holes. I also showed her all the dangerous items that I removed from the beach , which she said that she appreciated , but I was still breaking the law and she asked me to leave. The couple beaches around me that aren't on National Forest land that I've tried seemed pounded to death , so it seemed pointless for me to have a water detector that I can't use and I would just stick to coinshooting. as for the detectors I'm getting seem similar , I'm hoping to get my fiancee interested in detecting and I wanted two high power detectors that were light but slightly different. I hope that expains the reason of my decision somewhat. Thanks for all your responses! Sincerly , Tesoro-CoinShooter."

I PM him and told him National forest were forbidden to MD on but my curiosity got going and I decided to investigate. Here is what I got off the Dept. Of Interior's website. A PDF file (selected-laws.pdf) containing their rules and regulations. I searched foe metal,detecting,dig and only thing I found is to do with an archaeological site which if the area you was swinging that could get you into trouble and I could see how that could apply but it has no significance to what you are doing.

This is what it says in Charles Garrett's book," Treasure Caches Ban Be Found" page 106," Areas such as military sites,national and state parks and monuments are absolutely, "off limits" to cache hunting or any other type of metal detecting activity. No ifs, ands or buts here! Not only can your equipment (including automobile) be confiscated but you can face a jail sentence. And, there are other areas where metal detecting is not allowed unless you have permission from local officials. Don't rely on gossip. In fact, if you're really concerned about hunting in an area, it might be a good idea to get your permission in writing from the proper authorities." I have seen similar things reiterated in other MD publications.

I wonder if this is a myth perpetuated by people in general in the MD community and officials who do not know much about MD just group it under, "Archaeological" activity? I am going to post this question on Minelab forum and see what others have to say about it. I realize we will never be swinging on the Gettysburg battlefield or next to the Washington Monument but

if you go on regulations.gov I get this "proposed law" coming or is it in effect?

"

 

[mtpockets]

Well several months back when I was living in Colorado. I stopped into the local Natl forest ranger station and asked if It was legal to detect on National forest Land... Including water areas...
They said it was perfectly fine for me to detect in the Natl Forest...

But.... She winked: said.. your not supposed to dig in the ground... And she went to say that The Forest is a big area.. and that it cannot be covered
"patrolled" completely..

 

[king-ghidorah]

Well several months back when I was living in Colorado. I stopped into the local Natl forest ranger station and asked if It was legal to detect on National forest Land... Including water areas...
They said it was perfectly fine for me to detect in the Natl Forest...

But.... She winked: said.. your not supposed to dig in the ground... And she went to say that The Forest is a big area.. and that it cannot be covered
"patrolled" completely..

This is taken from their manual, "Selected Laws Affecting
Forest Service Activities"

I forgot to say I searched for dig too and this is the only reference it has to this activity,

"(2) Except as provided in sections
1535(g)(2) and 1539 of this title, with
respect to any endangered species of
plants listed pursuant to section 1533 of
this title, it is unlawful for any person
subject to the jurisdiction of the United
States to -
(A) import any such species into, or
export any such species from, the
United States;
(B) remove and reduce to possession
any such species from areas under
Federal jurisdiction; maliciously
damage or destroy any such species
on any such area; or remove, cut, dig
up, or damage or destroy any such
species on any other area in knowing
violation of any law or regulation of
any State or in the course of any
violation of a State criminal trespass law,

So it is in reference to digging or disturbing certain species. Now technically if you was digging on barren ground then the law does not apply here. If you were digging and just removing some grass to get at a find then by the way I read this law they could legally stop you from MD.

So technically when you was doing a beach which has no shrubbery whatsoever you could have by their laws been within your rights as a MD. I think in the minds of people in general they have taken specific prohibited acts within a National Forest and lumped MD right in there with it but when you look specifically at the laws as they are written it does not encompass MD in some situations. I say some situations because if you are removing some shrubbery and even grass (which I think is splitting hairs) then by the way their law reads they could prosecute you.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The way I understand it, is that in National forests, you can detect, but only for modern stuff (less than 50 years old). I too was stopped in a National forest here in CA. At first, the ranger said "you can't do that". But then upon further conversation, he said that I could, as long as I turned in any coins over 50 yrs. old. He drove off and never told me where to turn in the old coins at. I got a 1920s walking half that day too, but ..... durn it .... my math never was too good anyhow.

Also I think you can hunt if you're looking for something of your own that you yourself lost. Like........ didn't you loose your boyscout ring there when you were a kid, right? I've even heard of persons saying they're looking for meteorites, which also sidestep all the ARPA law. Meteorites are not man-made, they are not cultural or historic, they are not mining, since they fall from the sky, etc... Supposedly it passes all muster, and they leave you alone if you say you're looking for meteorites.

The bottom line is though, I think that Garrett (in the citation out of their book) drastically exaggerates the fear. I'm sure there are a few select stories of fines and such, but the vast majority of national forests (especially if you're back in the boondocks where no one's around to gripe anyhow) have been, and continue to be, detected. Just stay clear of obvious historical landmarks, be discreet, go at low traffic times, don't ask dumb questions, etc....

 

[Dang]

Hmm. Interesting subject. It always seems to pop up every now and then. Wouldn't it be cool if the forum had a lawyer on hand?

 

[sangamon]

...this web page deals with all sorts of metal detecting laws and might answer your questions...

 

[lazyaussie]

We have similar laws over here in Australia the park rangers i"v asked have said it"s not allowed so i looked on there web site & only prospecting is not allowed nothing about metal detecting i"ll keep this up my sleeve for a sticky situation there's also laws about disturbing plants & animals so detecting in sand & water hunting maybe OK this is where i hunt most of the time in parks department parks.
We"v also got the 50 years law where everything left in the ground for more than 50 years is legally property of the government witch sucks but i really don"t think they would bother me for getting a couple of old silver coins from the local park.
lazyaussie

 

[king-ghidorah]

...this web page deals with all sorts of metal detecting laws and might answer your questions...

I'm grateful that you posted this site as I had to redo my computer because of Ubuntu(gasp, I had "add to dictionary") screwing up my boot loader and it trashed my winDOZE partition. I wanted the DVD series they had on ghost towns. From my perspective when it comes to laws I like to see where it came from and when it comes from the "horse's mouth" that is the source I hold close to me. From what I have read so far from their laws I have a right to MD under certain conditions. I do not have National forests around me but I do have some State ones so this thread does come in handy for me.

 

[nc-joe]

Here's the answer, in the long, but quoted form, from the US Dept of Agriculture:


The Use of Metal Detectors on National Forest Land

The use of metal detectors has become a popular hobby for many people. Here is direction on how or when metal detectors can be used on the Chequamegon-Nicolet.

Metal detector use is allowed in developed campgrounds and picnic areas if they are not specifically closed to such activity. If archaeological remains are known to exist in a campground or picnic area,
a closure to metal detecting would be posted. It is permissible to collect coins, but prospecting for gold would be subject to mining laws. However, you should know that agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands, so it is possible you may run into such remains that have not yet been discovered. Archaeological remains on federal land, known or unknown, are protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisburbed, stop metal detecting in that area, and notify the local FS office. I have included the legal citations below for your information.

The Forest Service has conducted numerous projects in conjuntion with metal detectorists and metal detecting clubs through our volunteer archaeological program, Passport In Time (PIT). The cooperation has been fun for both the detectorists and the agency's archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor and we learn a lot! You can receive the PIT Traveler, our free newsletter advertising the PIT projects each year, by calling 1-800-281-9176. Look for the ones where we request metal detecting expertise!

Here are the legal citations:

Code of Federal Regulations, 36 CFR 261.9: "The following are
prohibited: (g) digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying,
or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological
resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any
prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site,
artifact, property."

USDA Forest Service Manual Direction (draft): "Metal Detector Use. Metal
detectors may be used on public lands in areas that do not contain or
would not reasonably be expected to contain archaeological or historical
resources. They must be used, however, for lawful purposes. Any act with
a metal detector that violates the proscriptions of the Archaeological
Resources Protection Act (ARPA) or any other law is prosecutable.
Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed
recreation sites are open to metal detecting unless there are heritage
resources present. In such cases, Forest Supervisors are authorized to
close these sites by posting notices in such sites."

ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc: "No person may excavate, remove, damage, or
otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or
otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian
lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit. . ."

For more information, contact Mark Bruhy, Supervisor's Office, 68 S. Stevens St., Rhinelander, WI 54501, 715-362-1361, or email mbruhy@fs.fed.us.

resource: http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/cnnf/rec/heritage/metal_detectors.html

 

[BK]

Technically i think you need to buy a permit to detect in Wis State state forests. The PIT 800# sounds cool. Do you know anyone who has participated?

BK

 

[tab-nabit]

"The way I understand it, is that in National forests, you can detect, but only for modern stuff (less than 50 years old). I too was stopped in a National forest here in CA. At first, the ranger said "you can't do that". But then upon further conversation, he said that I could, as long as I turned in any coins over 50 yrs. old. He drove off and never told me where to turn in the old coins at. I got a 1920s walking half that day too, but ..... durn it .... my math never was too good anyhow."
If it keeps you from sleeping - you can turn them in to me
Anyway I too was approached by a warden in CA in National Forest. I think he was curious more than anything else and wanted to get close to see what I was doing. He asked if I done any good and I said not really, some days better than others. He said "whatever your doing don't start any fires with that thing

 

[jbow]

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[jbow]

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