New to Forum, new to V3, first impressions, questions

[robertk]

Greetings! I have done a lot of reading in the last week or so, but this is my first post here.

Just yesterday, I bought a new Spectra V3 to replace my old Garrett GTA 1000. I've had the GTA for many years, but haven't used it very often, primarily because it just never seemed to find much other than trash. (I've recently learned that's because it's not working right, but that's another story.) So I'm not a complete novice, but I think it's safe to say I'm still pretty much a beginner.

Last night I tried the V3 in a clean area in my yard by tossing some coins on the ground. It worked great -- consistently identifying the coins and the depth (or the distance from the coil, since I didn't actually bury them).

So today I took the V3 to a place I just hunted with the GTA last week, and went over the same area. I only spent about half an hour at it, but so far here's what I've experienced.

First, the place I hunted must be littered with metal under the grass, because the V3 was constantly noisy (and I did ground balance it). It sounded like the radio sound effects from a bad 1950's sci-fi movie. I first used "Coin and Jewelry" mode, then tried "Deep Silver", which was even noisier. "High Trash" mode quieted it down a bit, but it was still a big jump from the two tones I was used to with the GTA. (I tried with and without "Tone ID" turned on, and it was noisy either way.) This will definitely take some getting used to.

Second, the V3 really loves bottle caps -- it thinks they are quarters. They give high VDI, show a quarter icon, etc. Their audio and VDI are unstable compared to the quarter I laid on top of the ground, but I'm in "dig it just to be sure" mode, especially for quarters. So, in my short time out today, I dug lots of bottle caps, but no quarters. I also found a nice big rusty bolt about 6" down that the V3 said was a quarter at 3". But I know that kind of thing just comes with the territory.

I did find a penny (memorial) that the GTA missed.

So, the questions:

First, is there a quick shortcut to quiet it down on the iron trash, while still being able to hit the coins (oddly enough, I didn't try the plain "Coin" mode -- would that do it?)?

Second, what kind of depths are others experiencing? I know this site has been occupied continuously since the 1860's, so there's bound to be something interesting there. But I also know that the 1880's are about 8" down (because that's where I've found bricks from when the original building was destroyed by a tornado). The deepest things I've found there with the GTA were about 5", and I'm hoping the V3 will trounce that?

 

[Downdeep]

First adjustment to try carefully is your bottle cap reject. Not sure how it is set in the coin modes, but in relic, it is off.

 

[Larry (IL)]

Your gain and sensitivity adjustments are your main adjustments to quiet it down. Too much of either will make it unstable. You pretty much answered your own question on bottlecaps, unstable audio and VDI. I noticed that on bottlecaps, Analyze screen and pinpoint, the middle frequency is the strongest, while on quarters the 2.5 KHz frequency is the strongest. I don't know if this is universal or just in my ground, but give it a try and see if that works for you. Like Downdeep said, you also have a bottle cap reject adjustment to play with.

 

[captainron]

Thanks for the tip on Analyze, Larry.

 

[digitrich]

I am beginning to wonder if they made you the moderator on this forum because you obviously know something Keep up the good work

 

[Larry (IL)]

Thanks Digrich, but I'm learning right along with the rest of you. I just got a little head start is all.

 

[robertk]

Well I went back to the same site this evening for another half hour before it rained, and tried a few things.

First, I set the ground balance (twice, just to be sure), and then put it in "coin" mode. It was just as noisy as earlier today. Then I checked the sensitivity probe and set the gain where it recommended. Didn't make any difference. I lowered it to half that -- still no difference.

So then I put one of the bottle caps I found earlier on top of the ground, along with a quarter (clad, I didn't have any silver with me). The response from a swing with the V3 was virtually identical on both of them -- three green bars, VDI of 80 or so. In analyze, though, they showed differently, as Larry predicted. The quarter hit hardest on 2.5, but the bottle cap hit hardest on the top frequency (not the middle).

I then tried the bottle cap rejection settings while swinging it over the bottle cap. I could turn it all the way up and the bottle cap would still hit like a quarter. Maybe they make bottle caps out of quarter metal around here.

So I tried sweeping the yard some more. I found five more pennies the GTA had missed (all memorials), a dozen more bottle caps, a kitchen knife, and a window sash lock. I tried to use Analyze to decide whether to dig the "quarter" hits, but I found it much harder to use Analyze because there always seemed to be several targets in close proximity. I sometimes couldn't get a graph to appear at all, probably because I was trying to keep the swing extremely short to avoid the other targets.

I also dug a couple of signals that the V3 said were pull tabs, thinking they might be nickels, but they were indeed pull tabs.

The weather is supposed to be good this weekend so maybe I'll be able to do some serious experiementing. I didn't try messing with the sensitivity yet (just the gain), but I will. At least it's easy to start over if I mess something up. It may just be a matter of digging everything until I've got enough experience to know how it reacts to each kind of metal. The only coins I've found with it so far were pennies, but it did indeed ID every one of them as a penny -- even the one that was directly under a rusty nail.

One other thing I notice is how rapidly pennies deteriorate. The oldest one I found was a 1960, but there were some as recent as 2006 that looked like they were a hundred years old from the deterioration. The only silver I've found at that site was a 1964 dime (found with the GTA), and it looks brand new. That's why I'm hoping for some old silver.

 

[CROCK of COINS]

Robert, You should be able to tell the difference of a COPPER cent and a ZINK/COPPER..;-)
Jerry

 

[Jingles]

Hi Robert, I'm new here too.
I haven't yet got a V3 __ but I'm seeing great things on this forum so far!
I've got a buddy in hospital, and when he's out and about we are going to our Whites distributer to have a swing of the mighty [size=large]"V".[/size]
If the "V" can do a decent job of prospecting; I'm getting one pronto !!!
You are going to be a winner with your V3 going by your approach to dealing with your problems...
Together with the assistance of guys like Down Deep and Larry this forum is the place to be learning the V eh!

Good luck to you.

 

[cvs]

Robert, sounds like you need to get yourself a 4x6 coil for that area, it will let you lock onto one target at a time (usually). I got one for my V3 and like the way it helps in areas where there are multiple targets close to each other.

 

[go-rebels]

Zinc pennies began production in 1982. They rapidly deteriorate in the ground as the copper plating is too thin to protect the reactive zinc.

If the V runs anything like my F75, the concentric coil will do a much better job differentiating the bottlecaps. I suspect it will completely alter the signagraph so the detector will need to be 're-learned'.

 

[robertk]

Thanks for all the pointers! I will look into the smaller coil. In the meantime, I continue learning...

I went to two sites today for a couple of hours total. Here's what I learned.

The "hits hardest on high frequency" trick for identifying bottle caps seems reliable for me -- every time I got a quarter signal and it showed a high frequency hit, it was a bottle cap. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any actual quarters with it.

The V3 is *much* quieter in a yard that isn't full of trash. I went to an old schoolyard, which hasn't been used in decades, and it was running nice and quiet. Unfortunately, though, there is a lot of brushy growth there, and every time I bumped into a woody stalk of something, I'd get a high VDI tone. Maybe I can convince the owner to let me bring a mower. Or a brushhog.

The V3 does indeed distinguish between zinc and copper pennies -- I found two recent pennies, both ID'd as zinc pennies. I also found two wheat pennies, and they both ID'd as copper pennies. Cool! The deepest penny was about 5" down, a 1942 wheatie (my oldest coin with the V3 so far).

I had a nice "dollar" hit that turned out to be the top of a buried mason jar. The whole jar was there, but unfortunately, it wasn't full of coins.

The only other thing of note that I found was three unfired .22 caliber rifle bullets. They were about three inches down, all in the same hole. They ID'd as foil, but the signagraph had a nice bell curve to it so I dug anyway. They hit hardest on the middle frequency (which is exactly what the instruction videos say brass will do).

Now if only I could run that coil over some silver...

 

[Larry (IL)]

You are getting a good grasp on things Robert, it is just a matter of time before you will be getting the coil over the the silver for you to dig it...

 

[CROCK of COINS]

>>top of a buried mason jar<<

Good call on digging the jar, ya never know ;-)

On that lid target...A large coin would give a solid: BEEP
The larger lid should give a: BEEEEEP
Unless things are sideways, The length of the beep can help with target type.

Good Luck

Jerry

 

[robertk]

I did some air tests today, and the results are interesting, but they also make me think my best course of action is still "dig everything", or at least "dig everything with a nice curve to the signagraph".

I measured by laying a plastic measuring tape parallel to the shaft and moving the target in front of the coil at the marked distances. The results were interesting:

C&J = Coin & Jewelry mode
DS = Deep Silver
factory defaults other than gain and boost
distances are max detected distance other than those with a "*" beside them

[pre]
Target Mode Gain Boost Distance ID'd as

Morgan dollar C&J 7 no 6" dollar
Morgan dollar C&J 15 no 8" half
Morgan dollar C&J 15 yes 14" half
Morgan dollar DS 15 yes 19" zinc penny
*Morgan dollar C&J 5 no 3" horseshoe

small gold ring C&J 7 no 4" pull tab / ring
small gold ring C&J 15 no 6" pull tab / ring
small gold ring C&J 15 yes 10" pull tab / ring

10 oz silver C&J 7 no 8" $
10 oz silver C&J 15 no 12" half
10 oz silver C&J 15 yes 16" half
10 oz silver DS 15 yes 21" quarter
*10 oz silver C&J 7 no 6" overload
[/pre]


It also seemed that I got a cleaner signagraph if I moved the target quickly, but I got a better tone and target ID if I moved it slowly. The size indication on the signagraph seemed accurate at all speeds.

The Morgan dollar was actually detectable at 22" in DS with boost, but there was only an audio response (threshold "bump"), I couldn't get a target ID. The 10 oz silver would bump threshold at two feet! The signagraphs also tended to flatten out to almost a straight line near the limit of detection range.

I also tried a generic 1 oz silver round and it gave identical results to the Morgan dollar.

I found it most interesting that the Morgan passing very close to the coil would ID as iron (VDI of -95), though it wasn't discriminated out. It still had a nice curve to the signagraph, too, with the 2.5 KHz frequency strongest. And the 10 oz silver bar would make it overload if it got closer than 6".

Also, the V3 fairly consistently reported a shallower depth than it actually was. Maybe that's just because I did the test in air? For example, the Morgan dollar at 19" showed as a zinc penny at 9". (So if at first you don't find that shallow penny, keep digging.)

Now I just need to find some stuff like this in the ground!

 

[nw1886]

You are going about learning that box the right way! There are all kinds of variables and no matter how good your machine is, it is always a "best guess" for the electronics.
You doing what your doing is showing you just how important YOUR "circuitry" is huh? You are going to do good!

Very few of us get everything that is possible from our machines due to not enough time spent or learning it's language with frustration. You are doing neither so...your gonna have fun.

 

[robertk]

Oops. I really should be more careful when I use "cut and paste editing" -- each target has two lines that say gain of 15, boost on, with a different distance. My bad -- the first line should be gain of 7, boost on. The distances are right, I just didn't edit the gain when I cut and pasted the lines.

 

[Monte]

Just yesterday, I bought a new Spectra V3 to replace my old Garrett GTA 1000.

Quite different in performance, and the Garrett won't even come close in overall performance.

I've had the GTA for many years, but haven't used it very often, primarily because it just never seemed to find much other than trash. (I've recently learned that's because it's not working right, but that's another story.) So I'm not a complete novice, but I think it's safe to say I'm still pretty much a beginner.

Honestly, regardless of how much experience any of us have with any make or model, when we get a new detector in our hands such as the V3, we are ALL pretty much in the beginner's stage. Sure, if we've got ample experience and decent knowledge of the various principles it comes a lot easier, but new offering, such as the V3, take all of us a little while to get a good grasp on.

The fact that you didn't put in that much time with the GTA-1000, or that it was the only detector you used, can put you behind the "learning curve" and it sure didn't help to have a mis-functioning detector, either.

Last night I tried the V3 in a clean area in my yard by tossing some coins on the ground. It worked great -- consistently identifying the coins and the depth (or the distance from the coil, since I didn't actually bury them).

Just remember that "Coin Depth" is a general "guesstimate" the detector can make based upon the coil and settings used, and the ground mineralization and any nearby target influence, and it is for the "typical" sized coins. The uncommonly found smaller (half-dimes) and larger (silver halves and dollars) coins are not going to 'read' accurately.

So today I took the V3 to a place I just hunted with the GTA last week, and went over the same area. I only spent about half an hour at it, but so far here's what I've experienced.

First, the place I hunted must be littered with metal under the grass, because the V3 was constantly noisy (and I did ground balance it). It sounded like the radio sound effects from a bad 1950's sci-fi movie. I first used "Coin and Jewelry" mode, then tried "Deep Silver", which was even noisier. "High Trash" mode quieted it down a bit, but it was still a big jump from the two tones I was used to with the GTA. (I tried with and without "Tone ID" turned on, and it was noisy either way.) This will definitely take some getting used to.

If you don't mind a suggestion, since you're trying to earn the V3, take it one step at a time. The first step is getting used to how the V3 is designed to respond and master the sweep speed. Yes, you can tweak a little here and tweak a little there and change things up a bit, but you can also mess things up to the point where you don't know how you got there.

Learn to hunt with it stable in order to get a handle on the SpectraGraph and Analyze displays and function. To accomplish this, either select the 'Common' program or go to Coin & Jewelry mode and make three easy changes to match the Common setting. Reduce Rx Gain from 7 to 2, Disc. Sens from 88 to 50, and All Metal Sens. from 55 to 50. That's the only difference between them. Your V3 will run quite stable and then, as you get comfortable with it, you can increase these three settings and learn what they do and how they interact. The ONLY other adjustment I'd suggest (other than Threshold) would be to turn Tone ID 'On' after you feel comfortable the the basic single-tone audio performance.

Second, the V3 really loves bottle caps -- it thinks they are quarters.

You've found out now how to identify them 9most of the time) with the V3. Some models can handle them quite well audibly but the V3 is a different critter and, fortunately, making use of the visual info can help in many a trashy site.

I did find a penny (memorial) that the GTA missed.

That will always happen. heck, you can take a simple detector and re-hunt where you've taken the V3 and find something. It's just too difficult to cover every square quarter of an inch from every direction with a proper sweep and be alerted to a potentially good target. The goal, naturally, is to get as many 'goodies' as you can, but know you'll never 'get them all.'

So, the questions:

First, is there a quick shortcut to quiet it down on the iron trash, while still being able to hit the coins (oddly enough, I didn't try the plain "Coin" mode -- would that do it?)?

The Coin program uses more discrimination which will quite down the amount of trashy response you'll HEAR, but they are still there and will have an effect on the performance. Target masking will reduce good target finds. The best 'trick' is to simply opt for a smaller-than-stock coil. My favorite is the 5.3 Eclipse.

Second, what kind of depths are others experiencing? I know this site has been occupied continuously since the 1860's, so there's bound to be something interesting there. But I also know that the 1880's are about 8" down (because that's where I've found bricks from when the original building was destroyed by a tornado). The deepest things I've found there with the GTA were about 5", and I'm hoping the V3 will trounce that?

There's no magic to things. Just sound electronic principles. Coin type targets don't really 'sink' but they certainly get displaced. Leafage that falls, mower clippings that build up. Things getting tramped down from human or animal traffic. Fill dirt brought in. All sorts of 'normal' things and you had to go and mention tornados!

Regardless of the detector and/or coil used, you have a couple of options: Only go after those desired coins/targets that are relatively shallow and not masked that produce very reliable TID's, or, just do the best you can and rely on experience. Rely on cleaning out some of the shallower junk at a worthy site that has potential of good older 'stuff,' and combine patience and dedication with learned detector knowledge and skills. Once you know a detector well and trust in its abilities, then you're on the way to success.

Keep in mind that there is still no single, 'perfect' detector, but rest assured that the new V3 comes a whole lot closer than most of the competition. Matter of fact, it's my opinion that the biggest 'competition' comes from some of White's other proven models. The MXT, for example, is a personal favorite that has some performance differences that can compliment the V3, if not challenge it in some applications. The V3's prime target, it's my belief, is those who have enjoyed the XL Pro and XLT and DFX but have wanted something better. Something that would not be less than those models, but would satisfy the long-time users of these (especially the XLT), and work better, easier, better, and with a nicer set of adjustment features. They got it.

Many, I think, feel it was an attempt to beat the Minelab Explorers and E-Trac or the Fisher X75's. That's not how I see it. I will give the Explorer SE pro a bow because I know what I can do with it ... but I also know it doesn't provide me the versatility as a "do all" or "do a lot" detector like my MXT or XL Pro or XLT, and certainly not the Spectra V3. I can see the V3 capturing a good number of those who have tried the competition, but are looking for something that's better balanced, easier to operate, and just plain 'versatile.' Also a top-end detector with an excellent selection of search coils.

I did read your post below about working with the new detector and a variety of coins you moved passed the search coil. Keep "air testing' and especially using the V3 in-the-field. Learn all you can, and be patient. best of success to you!

Monte

 

[tab-nabit]

" Quote
robertk
Second, the V3 really loves bottle caps -- it thinks they are quarters. "

Just yesterday evening during a hunt, I ran into a couple areas littered with bottle caps. A number of them read as a quarter VDI wise, but the Vision provides the additional information to help discern between the two. Probably one of the easiest (to me) is the analyze display - a quarter will have the 2.5 kHz (green) at the top - BC's don't. I still ended up finding about 6 or 7 quarters in that mess.

Oh - yesterday I ended with about 10 nickels - I usually don't get that many on one evening hunt. No buffs this time but that's okay with me.

I was actually out with a friend to show him the Vision. He was impressed. I hope his wife don't blame me

 

[robertk]

OK, I did some more experimenting today at the old building site. I was a little more systematic this time, and I'm starting to come to a conclusion, which I'll get to in a minute...

I decided to work a very small area and try different settings to see the effect. I worked the only area where I have actually found quarters (clad) before with my old GTA. -- a strip about three feet wide and six feet long in front of the back porch next to the sidewalk. In all cases, I dug everything with a good signal, if it had a bell shaped signagraph, or if the 2.5 KHz frequency was dominant (even if it wasn't bell shaped).

I first covered the area using the "Common" program. The V3 was still pretty noisy. I found several bottle caps (which generally gave a nice curve, but had the wrong frequency dominant), an unidentifiable piece of aluminum, and one memorial penny.

Next I used the "Coin" program and covered the same area. This time I found more bottle caps, a piece of foil, and two more memorial pennies.

Next I used the "Deep Silver" program, again covering the same area. I found a couple more bottle caps and another memorial cent.

Then I went back to the "Coin" program and turned Boost on. This time I found still more bottle caps (how many can there be??), and four more memorial cents. I also found one bottle cap wrapped in foil.

So what conclusion did I reach, aside from the fact that somebody apparently carpet-bombed the yard with bottle caps? I concluded that the problem isn't the V3, it's the yard. I think the only way to effectively search this yard is to dig the whole thing up and run it through a sieve. The reason I say this is because as I played with the different programs, I also played with sweep speed and pinpointing. In doing so, I came to realize that there are bits of metal (target or trash) all over the yard. If I got a good tone and tried to pinpoint it, I would quite often notice that moving off the target an inch would cause me to lose tone in pinpoint mode, then moving it another inch further off target would give me a *new* tone. So there are bits of metal literally just an inch or two apart, all over the place. It's no wonder I have trouble getting good targets, and it's no wonder the V3 is noisy -- there's constantly something metal under the coil!

I may take a break from this site tomorrow and try an old school yard that is less trashy, just so hopefully I can find something other than bottle caps for a change. But when I go back to the house yard, I'm going to move further away from the house -- maybe then the trash will taper off. I know there has to be something good there somewhere. Not only is the site old (at least 1860's), it had that historic tornado level a building there in 1880 (undoubtedly scattering its contents all over) and it's also just a stone's throw from where the courthouse burned during the civil war. (No worries about me digging there, it's my building.) I just have to punch through the bottle caps...