How high is too high of a signal loss on a coil? In this case I have the Eclipse Shooter "DD" (4x6) V rated. On sensitivity probe at RX = 15 the air loss % is 60.1 and on the ground it is 61.8. At RX = 10 it is 41.5 air / 42.2 ground. It is still over 20% at an RX of 5. It doesn
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Shooter DD4x6- How high is too high?
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I was having the same problem with a 5.3 that I bought. It passed the air test but just barley, I Called whites n they said to send it back it to re null the coil. Rob says it should be fine, But I just cant run rx where I want to, I can only run it at rx 6 tops. The tech at whites say that you should be able to crank the rx up on coils that small. Check the thread on here that reads 5.3 coil maybe that will help a bit.
I will say this again signal% is used to let you know how much room you have until the coil overloads. That is it's purpose. Only Whites can tell you if you should send it in and whether there will be a cost or not. If the coil runs a low percent in the 2.5 or 7.5 kHz single frequency but high in 22.5 kHz it is definitely caused by the null.
How high is too high of a signal loss on a coil? (It is too high if the detector overloads at the RX you want to run.)
In this case I have the Eclipse Shooter "DD" (4x6) V rated. On sensitivity probe at RX = 15 the air loss % is 60.1 and on the ground it is 61.8. I'm sure you can't run at this gain.
At RX = 10 it is 41.5 air / 42.2 ground. (At RX 10 if your coil doesn't overload, it will give the same performance as a coil with very little signal loss.)
It is still over 20% at an RX of 5. It doesnt overload but with that much loss in the air would it ever overload? (It might, but no one can say it will. The chance of overload with increase as the target gets bigger and shallower).
Your coil would give 100% performance on a MXT ot DFX because they would not overload because they do not have a 22.5 kHz frequency.
How high is too high of a signal loss on a coil? (It is too high if the detector overloads at the RX you want to run.)
In this case I have the Eclipse Shooter "DD" (4x6) V rated. On sensitivity probe at RX = 15 the air loss % is 60.1 and on the ground it is 61.8. I'm sure you can't run at this gain.
At RX = 10 it is 41.5 air / 42.2 ground. (At RX 10 if your coil doesn't overload, it will give the same performance as a coil with very little signal loss.)
It is still over 20% at an RX of 5. It doesnt overload but with that much loss in the air would it ever overload? (It might, but no one can say it will. The chance of overload with increase as the target gets bigger and shallower).
Your coil would give 100% performance on a MXT ot DFX because they would not overload because they do not have a 22.5 kHz frequency.
I have to say this without any hesitation...my replacement 10"D2 I got last week has been a blessing in performance, finds silvers, and is fun. The sig losses now are not even 2 digits until I get to nearly RX15. The D2 passed RX15 open air(no OL) up until the week before, but the signal losses were terrible all the time.
It just bugs me that the factory labeled term "signal loss" was made, and some people report less that 20% all the way across the gain window, and yet other give numbers like 50-60%. If the term signal loss stands for anything at all, then why is there so much variance between users. Remember now, lots of these reports are in open air applications, not a dependency of local soils.
Signal loss degrading or not will be something I will personally monitor. If it is stellar when brand new and then hits above 20% fast...I am making a record of it. I have never, and I mean never enjoyed a D2 coil in 3 whole years, but I admit that I didn't ever check the signal losses with the other coils.
I would really like to know where the loss(power) goes. It is a real number or else it wouldn't be trackable, right? Is it all software? Is it a performance inhibitor? What? Something changes or else it would remain as it was on day1.
It just bugs me that the factory labeled term "signal loss" was made, and some people report less that 20% all the way across the gain window, and yet other give numbers like 50-60%. If the term signal loss stands for anything at all, then why is there so much variance between users. Remember now, lots of these reports are in open air applications, not a dependency of local soils.
Signal loss degrading or not will be something I will personally monitor. If it is stellar when brand new and then hits above 20% fast...I am making a record of it. I have never, and I mean never enjoyed a D2 coil in 3 whole years, but I admit that I didn't ever check the signal losses with the other coils.
I would really like to know where the loss(power) goes. It is a real number or else it wouldn't be trackable, right? Is it all software? Is it a performance inhibitor? What? Something changes or else it would remain as it was on day1.
I too will be monitoring the signal loss on each of my coils. I am in the process of building a "coil test sheet" to record the purchase date, the date and time and for each test frequency the signal loss readings across the range of Rx values with comments. It will be interesting to see how it changes with time.
Who knows with enough data there may be a correlation between coil performance and the "Tide Tables" when is best time to swing the coil.
Who knows with enough data there may be a correlation between coil performance and the "Tide Tables" when is best time to swing the coil.
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Here is a good thread on both Sensitivity and Ground probes. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?66,1648598
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
You could have a bad D2, I would give White's a call on that that high of a reading.
I am sure you will find that we are talking about probe readings in the air. Any super coil can overload or give a high reading over ground. You are getting a high reading the same as if you went over a surface can except the added ground reading isn't enough to cause overload. Over some ground this reading is normal. Raise the coil in the air, if the readings are normal, the coil is not having a problem.
If you weren't reading this post what problem would you be reporting? If you aren't experiencing a problem, what would you hope to gain with a differnent coil? This last answer will be important.
If you weren't reading this post what problem would you be reporting? If you aren't experiencing a problem, what would you hope to gain with a differnent coil? This last answer will be important.
Here is my scenario and experience. First you have a built in function to analyze the coils performance and since we do not have Superman vision to see what is in the soil. The problem exists that if you are not getting signals and finding targets is it because there are none or because the coil / detector appears to be working but is malfunctioning. I recently experienced hunting an area that is low in trash and you dig any target. Problem was I did not get any targets. Later found out the detector was malfunctioning. We went back to the same site with a new working detector and found some good items. Thinking back I had noted that my good finds had fallen off over a period of time. Answer is you may not know you are experiencing a problem.
Note: The malfunctioning detector came back from Whites with some minor work to the main unit (no details on ticket) but the major item was a brand new coil. (It works like a new machine now.}
Note: The malfunctioning detector came back from Whites with some minor work to the main unit (no details on ticket) but the major item was a brand new coil. (It works like a new machine now.}
I really wasn't trying to start a scrap but better understand the Sensitivity Probe function Whites has provided in the V3i and determine if a coil is loosing its null.
I was more interested in knowing what are acceptable and unacceptable-----Signal % vs Rx vs Frequency.
Whites could probably re-word the manual better; for on page 21 it states in the section on Sensitivity Probe .
Percentage indicator of signal capacity- to-noise ratio.
a. Signal % = not returning from ground.
b. Noise % = external electrical and ground noise.
Line a.) "not returning from ground" implies a loss in the signal being put into the ground.
All comments have been appreciated!
I was more interested in knowing what are acceptable and unacceptable-----Signal % vs Rx vs Frequency.
Whites could probably re-word the manual better; for on page 21 it states in the section on Sensitivity Probe .
Percentage indicator of signal capacity- to-noise ratio.
a. Signal % = not returning from ground.
b. Noise % = external electrical and ground noise.
Line a.) "not returning from ground" implies a loss in the signal being put into the ground.
All comments have been appreciated!
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
I think this probe is a case of more is not better and probably should have gone the route of the suggested RX Gain feature of the V3. It is very confusing and does not serve the user well. White's probably could have done way with the ground probe as well and many more of the little used features that just muddies the water for a new user who is just learning the V series.
It is fine to understand what all of the features do but if it does not improve performance or convenience, it probably should not be on the menu IMHO.
We could start another thread with suggestions of what we would like on a software upgrade or even a new detector based on the V3i platform. I think more automation such as finding the best frequency offset and ground filters would be a good start and of course a computer interface to simplify program customization would be a good start.
It is fine to understand what all of the features do but if it does not improve performance or convenience, it probably should not be on the menu IMHO.
We could start another thread with suggestions of what we would like on a software upgrade or even a new detector based on the V3i platform. I think more automation such as finding the best frequency offset and ground filters would be a good start and of course a computer interface to simplify program customization would be a good start.
I agree with the suggestions on how to improve or have a better computer interface.
My goal is still to be able to know if my detector is running at peak performance before I am out there fighting the elements. Reason is many of our most promising detecting sites are more than a 100 mile one way trip and when you are there that is not the time to find out "Sweet Home we have a problem!"
My goal is still to be able to know if my detector is running at peak performance before I am out there fighting the elements. Reason is many of our most promising detecting sites are more than a 100 mile one way trip and when you are there that is not the time to find out "Sweet Home we have a problem!"
Below is a graph showing the 15 signal %'s of my 3 V3i coils, with and without boost. This 4x6 is a replacement I received (original I received with my Bonus Bucks was overloading at RXGain of 6 on the ground and in air). How does this compare to yours and others? Still feels high to me but I haven't done a lot of real-world testing with it yet, hope to get it out to a park or two soon.