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Shovels at Parks or School

God bless you, Tom, for your many years of common sense posts about not chasing municipal blessings! I have no doubt that you have convinced some MDers not to do something they otherwise might have. And in so doing you have saved some locations from officially becoming off limits. You've spent a lot of time being the voice of common sense on this issue, and all of us in this great hobby owe you a debt of gratitude.:cheers:

But I do think you are oversimplifying it when you suggest that most all MD bans come about from people unnecessarily asking bureaucrats for permission.

Surely looking for official permissions has caused bans, but I also don't doubt that unfilled and poorly dug holes and the unsightly appearance of big shovels have caused problems too. No doubt our brethren have been blamed for the doings of some non-human animals too.

And I'll add my opinion that "recovery 101" needs to be updated.

First of all, the flap method where one side of the plug is not detached from the ground will virtually always lead to a cleaner, better looking recovery than removing the entire plug as shown in recovery 101.

Secondly, stomping will not re-affix the edges of a flap plug as securely as punching with solid jabs around the edges will. As an added bonus, punching is good exercise and could have a deterrent effect to anyone watching you who may not have the best of intentions. Obviously I don't recommend this technique in rocky soils, but it works great in a typical manicured grassy area.

Third, carry a frisbee or something similar for dirt. A drop cloth always seems to be recommended, but a drop cloth is by definition flimsy and more of a pain to use when you're trying to dump a bunch of dirt back into a hole.

A few weeks ago a gentleman who gave me permission to search his yard told me he had been watching the spots where I dug but couldn't see any trace of where I was afterwards. Music to my ears.:clapping:
 
marcomo said:
And I'll add my opinion that "recovery 101" needs to be updated.
First of all, the flap method where one side of the plug is not detached from the ground will virtually always lead to a cleaner, better looking recovery than removing the entire plug as shown in recovery 101.
Click to expand...

Method 2 as shown above is a flapped (connected at one side) plug!

Click on the image to enlarge it to full size and read it!

Mark
 
You're right, Mark. I jumped to a conclusion based on a quick glance that looked like the plug was fully removed. I stand corrected.
 
marcomo said:
.... You've spent a lot of time being the voice of common sense on this issue, and all of us in this great hobby owe you a debt of gratitude.:cheers:

But I do think you are oversimplifying it when you suggest that most all MD bans come about from people unnecessarily asking bureaucrats for permission. ...
Click to expand...

Thanx for the compliments Marcomo. It's a bee-in-my-bonnet :wacko: And you're right: Not all bans came from grovelling md'rs going in and swatting hornet's nests. There are other origins too.
 
Bottom line don't go into a Park with a Shovel and a bunch of Buddy's with them also. Don't want to hear about How neat a plug You can dig with one. It looks bad and more People with You draw attention. Because No Matter what once that sign goes up its over unless You want to get a Ticket or worse. I know as it happened in My area. I try to tell all the shovel digging Newbs on YouTube but they know too much. They will have to learn the Hard way. It Just Sucks as they ruin it for us who have had a true passion for the Hobby for Years . Not because We saw a cable show and thought it would be a quick way to make a buck in between Golf games. Nuff Said.
 
Digging with a shovel and cutting a plug with a long handled tool are not the same.
I do see the problem with the public seeing a tool they describe as a shovel being used in a public park or school.
 
Please no shovels in public areas. Regardless of how neat you can dig a plug with one it gives a bad impression of our hobby.
 
Well, I have used shovels in parks and public for years. Most of those years were with an 18" Sampson, 4" wide blade, carried on a belt carrier. No problems, but I never flaunted it. I many times delay a deeper dig untlil park quiet-time. I once got a permit from the Corp of Engineers for lake detecting...they stated using diggers used for one-hand ability. I showed them my Sampson. Got the, "That's OK."

A lot is in the way people present the shovel. Shoulder-carry? No-No. Swinging carefree to the side, noticable. Usle a l-o-n-g wide blade shovel?, That's just stupid

I am using a shovel each time unless it's private or the town square. There's a "way" to use a shovel in public.
 
5900_XL-1 said:
There's a "way" to use a shovel in public.[/quote

No There Isn't, not in city parks anyway!
PLEASE STAY OUT OF OUR CITY PARK WITH YOUR SHOVEL!

Mark
Click to expand...
 
Mark, I know what xl-1 is saying. Yet I know what you are saying.

You have an image that xl-1 (anyone with a long-handled shovel) is going to be seen. If that premise is true, then I agree with you. That it carries too much connotations (that you might be about to leave a hole). But what xl-1 is doing, is going at a time when such-lookie-lou's aren't around to gripe. In that case (no one around to see the "shovel"), then ..... presto: out of sight is out of mind.

Remember: There's some long handle shovels (the "gator") that are nothing effectively more than a Lesche on the end of a long pole. Thus you can do more damage or digging with a short-handle one (akin to trowel, as you know), than a long-handle one. Thus the impact is identical. It's only the image/connotations that are different. Right ? And that is easily solved by going at zero traffic times.

It's gotten to where I do most of my turf hunting (for high-profile nicer turf) at night. So peaceful . So serene. And while I don't use a long-handle shovel (gator, etc...), I do understand the logic of those-that-do, if they do it at zero -traffic times. Because then the issue of image is solved. Eh ?
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Mark, I know what xl-1 is saying. Yet I know what you are saying.

You have an image that xl-1 (anyone with a long-handled shovel) is going to be seen. If that premise is true, then I agree with you. That it carries too much connotations (that you might be about to leave a hole). But what xl-1 is doing, is going at a time when such-lookie-lou's aren't around to gripe. In that case (no one around to see the "shovel"), then ..... presto: out of sight is out of mind.

Remember: There's some long handle shovels (the "gator") that are nothing effectively more than a Lesche on the end of a long pole. Thus you can do more damage or digging with a short-handle one (akin to trowel, as you know), than a long-handle one. Thus the impact is identical. It's only the image/connotations that are different. Right ? And that is easily solved by going at zero traffic times.

It's gotten to where I do most of my turf hunting (for high-profile nicer turf) at night. So peaceful . So serene. And while I don't use a long-handle shovel (gator, etc...), I do understand the logic of those-that-do, if they do it at zero -traffic times. Because then the issue of image is solved. Eh ?
Click to expand...

Well, I like to night hunt myself, I used to do a LOT of that in 1981, not so much anymore.
Another problem is the newbie's to the hobby!! you know the ones that start out with an image of digging up GOLD and getting rich, the ones that are not really into the hobby and want to protect it. Its hard enough to contour that practice without suggesting the use of shovels in a public forum. This forum and ones like it has WAY more surfers (viewers) than members and many of them are looking for any support they can find on using heavy equipment to dig up the city parks. You and I both know the overall senses (final score) of the outcome of these threads on the subject! its ALWAYS an overwhelming NO to shovels in city parks!! ALWAYS!
Without exception.
Yes, there is always one or two that will come in and defend shovels and hard hats is better, but its ALWAYS a 90% or better vote against shovels in city parts!!!!!

Mark
 
reality is that it will be banned at some point so get rid of what you don't use gear wise before its worthless.

AJ
 
I hear what you're saying. While it might be ok for an experienced person to use a long-handled gator, yet .... truth is .... a newbie is not going to maintain "discreet" status. Thus better to tell them "never".
 
Tom_in_CA said:
I hear what you're saying. While it might be ok for an experienced person to use a long-handled gator, yet .... truth is .... a newbie is not going to maintain "discreet" status. Thus better to tell them "never".
Click to expand...

While it might be okay for an experienced person to use a long-handled gator that is respective and protective of the hobby, yet .... truth is .... a newbie is not going to maintain "discreet" status. Thus better to tell them "never" The shovels and gator diggers is in general a BAD IDEA IN Public Parks, and we who want to protect (preserve) the hobby need to do so in ALL public settings, in the field and on the forums! both are 'In The Public View' in many cases we are the 'Instructors' we need to teach good habits to the beginners, then let them evolve their own habits from there.

Tom, your 100% correct!
Mark
 
Just look at the junk/litter along our roadways---do you think arming MORONS with LHS's is a good idea.? Most 2 legged Idiots can screw up a steel ball with a rubber hammer.
The 2 IDIOTS on the MDing tv show attracted untold thousands of fellow Idiots to destroy our hobby.
NO, I don't have much faith in my fellow man.
 
yep walkers I call them and a piece of rebar can be a good tool with walkers :lmfao:

truth is we can only control what we do, most people don't like being told what to do so while this thread maybe a great place to vent it wont stop the walkers sorry about that..

so :buds: be happy don't worry and enjoy...

AJ
 
So true as other Forums You even mention not using a Shovel in Parks and You get Your head bit off and called a 'Finger pointer". That's the way it is Today. No one's at fault. Your are just a Grumpy Old Finger pointer.
One forum has a lot of so called Big shooters in the Hobby. Surprising to say the least.
 
HIGH TONE! I'LL FIND IT!

JUST A LITTLE DEEPER, THAT'S ALL....I KNOW IT'S HERE SOMEWHERE!

[attachment 346757 Giant-Bucket-Wheel-Excavatorsm.jpg]
 
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