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Swung my new E-12 track yesterday

digitrich

New member
First off the Sun Ray probe works just fine, almost too fine. It's real stable and quiet to the point I had to touch it to metal to realize it was even working. For a second I thought it was not working, I mean quiet and stable, much more than on the SE. As for the ETrac itself, well, At this point, after only swinging it for five hours, Honestly, I would have rather had my old SE with this faster processor. When I brought the ETrac into dense iron that I pulled two Indians and a button from the night before with my SE, it choked hard with it's current coin pattern, I mean completely nulled out for 45 seconds at a time. I had it set in auto sens, dense trash, fast, conductive tones, set to difficult ground....all of this I am assuming are the settings I should have been using, again, assuming. For all I know, I might have it set up crooked. In it's absolute defense, I was in all metal with my SE, in FERROUS tones, the night before, hearing everything, waiting to pounce on the high tone like a cat. The bad thing, is I was using the exact same Pro coil with both, as I haven't taken the new one out of the box yet. The same shafts, batteries and coils all seem to work with the new ETrac. Basically, if you're in real dense trash AND you are going to use a discrimination pattern, I am guessing that you would have to go to a smaller coil. That's my next hunt and may blow my mind, so we'll see. I tried the ETrac in all metal, in both ferrous tones and conductive tones. Several targets I swung over in ground gave a reading in ground that was different than after it was out of ground, which is a heavy argument against hunting with "tight" discrimination, apparently the ground mineralization and nearby targets still effect the ID in ground some. That nail/dime test is pretty until you turn the coil 90 degrees in which you only get the null. It also starts to null if the coil is more than 4 inches from both, that might have something to do with the ground I had them on, so that is not Gospel, I will check again on clean ground. One other thing about the nail test is if a dime or any target other than iron and iron are on the hot line of the coil (up and down), I only got the null, which is why I believe the 11 coil is not going to be the dense trash coil. Nothing sounded "flutey" to me but I may have been staring way to hard at the screen. Speaking of which, I am hoping there's a way to list the con # first and the ferrous # second as what is the sense of seeing a 12 first, when the conduct number is more important? We could inverse the #'s on the previous models, so I am assuming that we can now. It does false some, in real heavy iron, but I would expect that. Twice I dug a ten inch hole that read in coin land only to find large iron. Hunting with this thing with heavy discrimination feels allot like driving a sports car without fifth gear, a whole lot of power being stymied. There has got to be some settings that let this thing loose and I will find them. Factory presets is good for the brother in law who wants to "check" out what your hobby is like and the wife who wants to see what all the fuss is about, but they are not going to fly in the trash that I hunt. In all fairness I have no business taking a new machine that I don't know into dense trash and expecting miracles but I was expecting a great deal more than I got, that's for sure. And yes I did hunt with it in "open" areas in ground I wasn't familiar with (my dealers site), I dug three pull tabs at 12-23, & 12 -24, one dime and one penny (modern at about 5 inches), oh, and my best find, a pistol minni-ball about three inches deep. His site was almost kill the grass dry and pounded for 15 years by some of the best Explorer and Sov users. You could tell by the absolute absence of clad. The processor is way faster, the screen updates quickly, I don't think I would call it "real time", but close, just slow enough for you to be able to follow it, any faster and you couldn't. Problem is: I DON'T WANT TO STARE AT A SCREEN, I WANT MORE TONES WITH MORE VARIABILITY SO THAT I DON'T HAVE TO STARE AT A SCREEN AND I CAN CONCENTRATE ON MY COIL CONTROL AND MOVEMENT AS THAT IS HOW YOU METAL DETECT IN TRASH. So I will find a way to do that with this machine or I will put it back in it's box and sell it to someone who isn't as serious about this as I am. People wonder why I don't post finds, well, quite simply, I am lazy and anyone, with any detector can make great finds with nothing more than great research, but when you pull an Indian head or a Seated out of a hole with 5 nails in it, that had just gave you the tiniest smidgen of a signal, well then your using these machines to their fullest potential, and that's my goal and my reward. The ETrac is an Explorer and it was made by Mine Lab and apparently, I am going to the bottom of the learning curve once again. Maybe using a small coil in long audio? I just have to figure it out. My ground is on the dry side, but it was the night before too. Not trying to discourage anyone, but for me, I miss lots of tone variance in all metal and I am not a big fan of "let the machine do it" dummy detecting. It is way easier for me to pick around the nails when I can hear them and with discrimination and a null, it is way difficult to wiggle them out. I haven't made up my mind yet, who knows, maybe this thing will really impress me on my next hunt.:detecting:
 
I had the machine in ferrous tones. I was just bench testing some coins and everything was flat and the same tone. And I am thinking... why is a quarter and a nickel giving this same low tone and that's when I realized I was still in ferrous tones. Put it in conduct and bazoombee, now there's my Explorer with its pretty, flutey tones. Gosh I got scared. I don't know if I was in ferrous tones last night in that thick iron, I am assuming that I was, in which case it would be hard to find any high tones if I had the machine set not to give any. So to correct my previous post, it does give lots of variance of tone and those tones are flutey in conductive tones for coins. Ferrous tones are a very poor choice for coins.
 
Quote (now there's my Explorer with its pretty, flutey tones.) Boy that makes me feel a lot better as they are kind of addictive!
 
You cannot all metal hunt with it and no serious Explorer hunter is going to like that, one iota. I sure don't. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful machine but as you know, heavy discrimination on any Explorer misses targets and it does on this one. It's nice that they have made it faster and added programming like heavy trash and difficult ground and suggested sensitivity and such...however, they are not going to make up for the INABILITY to hunt in all metal with multiple coin tones "high" and iron coming in at a low tone "ferrous tones". I have put that machine in dense trash, in areas where I could hunt successfully in all metal with my SE's only to have it null out completely if I disced iron, if . All the "programming and processor speed" is not going to cut it without an all metal option. The simple solution without retooling the whole thing is for them to add an option that while in CONDUCT tones which have very nice coin separation, by the way, to have an option of also having any ferrous numbers greater than say 18 to report a low tone. This could be done with software and I hope that they could just update the software through the current USB port and one could download it from their site. If they gave the usb port bidirectional programming capabilities, this will be real simple, if not then either they will have to ship them in for reprogramming:help:PLEASE, or leave it the way it is:biteme: or come out with a later better functioning model:biteme:, and I am out 1800 bucks and so will you:rant:. This is the problem when you try and please everyone. They make a detector that is designed to hunt all over the world, that can except coins from all over and this detector is almost set up to hunt for ferrous content coins first and US coins second. Now, if I am mistaken correct me, but isn't their largest market the US and shouldn't have they considered that in it's design???????????
What would have been wrong with a US and a separate Europe design. How many of us really are going to Rome next spring? And even if we were, would you rather have a detector set up for US usage if you live in the US for the next five years and possibly might use it across seas for 5 of those 1825 days???? The solution is software only and I would be happy to pay the shipping, most will whine, but I am absolutely grateful for their continued efforts at furthering my enjoyment of my hobby, whether perfect or not, they made huge strides with this machine, If they fix the ferrous all metal problem, you can put your SE, XS, 1 and 2, F75, DFX, and all others on EBAY. Because it will be the finest Explorer made, making all others obsolete. Not only will it appeal to the "dummy" detectorist, "let the machine do it" because they won't make a serious effort to get any better and are not interested in nitty gritty detecting...just a casual swing in the park with heavy discrimination. BUT it will also then be the most awesome all metal machine on the planet next to a PI that can't currently discriminate. Mine Lab really needs to rethink this because the guys that make these awesome posts with there current machines are all metal hunters, if you take that ability away from them, there aren't going to be any ETrac 500 silver a year posts. Mine Lab please hear my pleas.
 
Posted similar the other night in my reservations about E-trac post.... We need the ability to hear Iron tones when hunting in cond with no discrimination..... I would think it would be an easy software update....Minelab needs to get with the program on this one. Till then I guess I will stick with my EXII or have to see what Whites has up its sleeves for next year...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?19,799414,799414#msg-799414
 
Mine Lab really needs to rethink this because the guys that make these awesome posts with there current machines are all metal hunters, if you take that ability away from them, there aren't going to be any ETrac 500 silver a year posts. Mine Lab please hear my please.

Whoa there, buddy!! I don't post a lot of this forum, but I post quite a bit on 2 other forums. I had to laugh a little at your statement about how only the good hunters that make consistent, incredibly finds are all hunting in Ferrous, All-Metal mode with their Explorers. I disagree whole-heartedly on that. I've been using an Explorer SE for about 19 months now, and have put over 1000 hours in the turf with my machine. In 19 months, I have around 889 silver coins, along with over 4000 wheaties, a handful of Injuns, V's, Buffalos, and I'm not using Ferrous, All-metal. All of my finds have come in Conductive mode, with an Iron mask around 27. All of these finds have come from park turf(a little over 80 different parks here in S. CA). My hunting buddies have been hunting with the same settings and have increased their old coin counts on each hunt. Granted, I don't hunt old home sites that are filled with iron, but my parks have a good amount of rust/nails, along with even more aluminum trash. I have painstakingly put my dues in out in the field with my machine, a have a pretty good feel for deciphering the differences between iron and silver. Do I still dig the occasional piece of tricky sounding iron? Of course....all good Explorer hunters dig iron....it's inevitable. I'm a "tone" hunter...I don't pay much attention to the digital numbers. I use the Smartscreen occasionally to tell the difference between a quarter and a clad/silver dime though, in addition to lower conductive targets, such as nickels.

I'm living proof that you don't need to hunt All-metal, Ferrous to make good finds, both in quality/quantity. Great success can be attained on an Explorer while hunting in Conduct and a small amount of IM.

My curiosity has risen about this new E-Trac, and this forum seems to have the most hands-on expertise with these units so far.
I can't see much of a clear advantage yet with this machine, unless I hear guys getting better depth than they did with their Explorers. Tone hunters will always use tone to find the deepies, regardless of more accurate target ID's/intricate software that the E-trac claims.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan
 
I am not saying you can't hunt with iron discrimination but you will get better separation in all metal than IM 27. I used to hunt exactly as you said. I had several sites that were producing really nice finds. And then; they got less and less and less because there were fewer and fewer finds separated from the trash enough to hear with that set up. So I tried long audio which reminded me of my nagging wife, I am still not used to her, so chances are, long audio may take me a while too. And then I switched to all metal, ferrous tones and realized there was a great deal left to find in these same sites that I thought were barren because I could no longer find anything in IM 27. It is not easy to teach yourself to ignore the low iron drone but as soon as you do, it literally opens up a world of finds that most leave behind when using any amount of discrimination. For ML to make a new machine and take all metal away is going to upset the guys who have learned how effective that technique is. Your brain and ears are a million times better a discriminator than that machine will ever be, and I don't care if they put in a Pentium 6. Why in the world would you have that machine make that decision for you? Without all metal and ferrous tones, your ability to become even more effective with that machine in that respect has just been denied. How would you feel if a guy you hunted with pulled out two barber halves using all metal in an area you went over in IM 27 and never heard because they were masked. Those are the type of coins I started popping out of ground that I thought was "clean". My statement should have been most, not all serious Explorer users hunt in all metal, and further, they are in most cases, trying to use as little discrimination as possible. I applaud your results. If you were used to hunting in all metal, ferrous tones, like many of us are, you would be on the same side of the fence. Didn't mean to offend, was not my intention, just trying to get us a better machine.:cheers:
 
Yes, excellent post, right on the money, hopefully they will listen to us.:thumbup: Others will join in, I can't imagine you and I are the only all metal, ferrous tone hunters in America, right?........right? I like your post better; mine was too drama queenny. :ban:
 
How would you feel if a guy you hunted with pulled out two barber halves using all metal in an area you went over in IM 27 and never heard because they were masked.

I understand your grief about the new E-trac and it's limitation to deciper targets in Ferrous, All-metal. If you're a Ferrous/AM Explorer hunter, it's not looking that great right now.

I have pulled lots of coins next to or on top of nails, and I do it frequently while hunting in Conduct./IM-27. On my last hunt, I dug a silver dime with a rusty bottlecap laying right over the top of it. I've recovered deep silver/wheaties next to iron water sprinkler piping. It's no secret that all of my Explorer hunting buddies (about 8 of them) are hunting in Conduct. sounds/small Iron Mask because they find more keepers in the turf with these settings. Hunting around Iron signals requires a slower/methodical type of detecting. I work the area from different swing angles, listening for the break of threshold/null, and some repeatability. What made you decide to dig a half-dollar(or any keeper) that's hiding next to iron while in All metal/Ferrous?? Because you heard the sweet sound of a coin mixed in with a lot of lower tones, right? Well, the only way you're going to hear a high tone while in Ferrous/AM is when it's target ID moves over to the right side of the Smartscreen. Since I'm only masking a very small portion of the left side of the smartscreen, I would hear that high tone also. Why? Because coins hiding next to iron will "bounce" around the top of the smartscreen, from as far left as possible(when next to iron) all the way to the far right. In conduct sounds, the bouncing is not an issue; the coin will still sound high, because tone pitch in Conduct. mode only changes in the vertical direction. In Ferrous, this will present a problem. The right-left bouncing will cause a mix of low and high tones, which would be confusing. Even iron bounces from the upper left to the upper right, and can sound high pitched while in Ferrous because top-right of screen is still a high-pitch tone in Ferrous as it is in Conduct.

I know in heavy iron/trash, using a smaller coil will help to isolate/find those keepers that a larger coil would be missing, because it help to minimize the "halo" effect that iron has in the ground, and has a finer ability to sample targets that are very close to or on top of each other. The new 11" SE Pro coil, however, is awesome. It's ability to pick through iron/trash is amazing. I love it!!

So, the only time I'm going to be masking while in Conduct. is when my signal is at the far left of the screen. And when that happens, hunting in Ferrous is not going to help...the tone will be a low thump. If I hunt slow enough around the iron, and in different directions, I will improve my chances at recovering from a null/mask threshold, and when the machine begins to "bounce" the target (as described above) just a little more over to the right side of the screen, I will be digging just like you on that higher tone.

I enjoy these types of conversations....Please don't feel like I'm trying to force anyone away from their comfort level with their machine. There is definitely more than one way to be a successful hunter with it. With my success so far, I won't be changing my settings anytime soon, and I hope with your new E-Trac purchase that you won't have to either....but right now, with what you have found, it's not looking so good.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan
 
including a variation of Ferrous digital number values. It seems to be working for me.

Higher tones more conductive non ferrous objects. Low tones for iron.

:clap:Welcome back Explorer style All Metal detecting in the E-trac:clap:

In QuickMask the default setting for Ferrous (FE) is
 
Not less.... Its like they took three steps forward and a giant leap back.
Dave, I considered what you mentioned here already... At least with the Explorer, you had a fairly wide tonal response when hunting in ferrous, and you could still identify your targets fairly well based on their tone. The problem I see with your suggestion, at least for me since I am not relic hunting, is that now all coins will sound nearly the same, since they all have a ferrous value near 12. What digitrich and I are advocating, and I frankly am suprised that others are not jumping on board, is (what I imagine would be a rather minor software update) an option that would allow one to set the quick mask level or a ferrous threshold value that would return a low tone, yet still maintain the benefit of the conductivity mode, after all, the machine already knows both the ferrous and conductivity value of the target.
 
You guys are Missing the point of all metal and the two tones
No matter which sound you hunt in, be it ferrous or conductive is only changing the mindset of a good target.
All Metal is of the most importance. To hear it all or not to Hear it all. If one is happy missing small iron and an occasional good target, then let it be so.
If one wants to hear it all-I call it seeing it all-Then that person has a small but better Chance of getting the good target the other guy nulled over.
The amount of deliberation you put into a hunt will make either hunter better than the other.
 
coins hiding next to iron will "bounce" around the top of the smartscreen, from as far left as possible(when next to iron) all the way to the far right.

So... if I am in IM and cond I want to dig anything that bounces around the top? Will it bounce diagonal or horizontal, in your experience? I have seen pics of good signals bouncing from high left to lower right. When it bounces like that, (high left to lower right), is the lower right bounce the correct TID? Or is it somewhere in between? For example.. a penny, considering where it normally hits on the smart screen. Next to iron would it bounce from high left to where a penny normall hits in clean ground or air testing. If that is true I would assume that a silver coin would bounce along the very top of the screen and not dip, is that correct?

Thanks,

J
 
The last time I got in this discussion I was told my machine had something wrong with it.
 
Crash620....I so want to jump on the band wagon with you and digi, but I don't think it's fair till the smoke clears and you all finally figure out its top potentials, or I buy one and figure it out first....but you know how long it takes to get to know another diff. animal? We have an advantage over anyone not ever owning an Explorer and even over the ones that just play with it sometimes......but why trash it and just show how much we really know and master the beast....why waist so much energy on negitivity....If I could get one I would be all over it and air testing and setting it up for the tones I feel I can get the best seperation from all the diff. coins I could, just like I did with the XS....Lets stop fooling around and get down to some serious Exploring the E-Trac and tame it and if it shows us it is not any better then at least we can say we gave it our best shot!.......
 
The cursor bounces all over my SE screen, the processor is just too darned slow to update the display accurately in real time - hopefully this will be rectified with the E-Trac! Can I buy you a beer when I meet you in NH (I know you're waaaaay over the legal drinking age)? :cheers: :lmfao:
 
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