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Swung my new E-12 track yesterday

but from what I have seen here in posts, and read in the literature, what would at first glance be an extremely promising unit (which it is) falls short of what would meet my needs. I am still on the fence about purchasing it to see what its all about, but I just cant bring myself around at this point. I am certainly watching this thing closely. A software update would be a good way to test out that new USB feature though....We may as well get to see how well that works too.... :)
 
It's ok, i've wondered if something is wrong with mine ever since I got it and most of the time I wonder if there is something wrong with me...

J
 
I have seen silver ride up and down right side close to line and have seen it go diagnal and have seen it go vertical top line left to right.
too many variables to really figure it out.....conditions are toooooo multiple, and each time can be for a diff. reason. I just dig them cause I know most of the time I hear the correct tone whispering, or co-existing with other tones but very favorable to silver.....etc... and know the action it is doing on smart screen...and that is good enough for me....
 
Square nails always fool me, they are usually short pieces about a inch long. I can't bring myself to pass them by... I know if I don't dig one it will be a great coin. I can usually tell a full nail by the double beep in one direction but those little pieces are hard...

J
 
It normal to have iffy tones and erratic icon on the display screen when hunting dirty ground. Most times if you pull a plug your ID and quality of tone will come through loud and clear. It's getting yourself to dig instead of playing with it for ever. If it says "I'm a little bit silver" Dig it.
Oh, and Doug is right, the icon can be anywhere in the top right diagonal slice of the screen.
 
This is My opinion J....I get fooled too cause when I do I remeber back in my mind reading about another digging it and it was a coin.....until reality sets in....and my reasonable mind says hey!....How many rusty bend square nails do I have to dig till one comes out a coin?....LOTS!!!!!!!

And then I remember none ever was a Coin.......The I go back to old reliable and if I get that iffy iron/silver sound....I turn 90 degrees and it is just iron grunts side to side it is a nail.....If I can't use pinpoint to find 2 targets close together it is a nail....if I can't sneek inbetween every which way and it still sounds like 1 target it is a nail....my biggest night mare is 2 or 3 iron tagrets close by....that is a tough one to figure out....but I give it a shot and walk away if I can't positivly isolate a silver target. Saves time and back and I am much happier and less frustrated....the best for less than average users is the turn 90 deg. and thats all they should use cause it the most accurate and untill one gets use to machine then the rest is fine and less aggrivating when you get to know the machine.
 
n/t
 
I have been a Ferrous Mode hunter for 8 years and to have that all of a sudden taken away is not something I am looking forward to. One of the things I liked about the Ferrous Audio Mode was that when hunting the Beach I would listen to the Tones and try to guess what the target was going to be before looking at the display or digging the target. This was always part of the fun of detecting for me. It didn't matter as I would dig everything except iron anyway since I am a Beach Hunter. Now the reason I have always hunted in the Ferrous Audio Mode is because the Explorer tends to false on rusty iron is the wet salt sand. When it does this it hits on the upper left side of the screen directly opposite of coins. This meant if you were in Conductive Audio the false iron signal gave almost the same high tone as a coin. Hunting in Ferrous audio eliminated the problem because an iron false on the upper left side of the screen gives a Low Tone in Ferrous Mode while coins still gave a high tone. So now we have a new machine where there is basically two ferrous tones. One for all non-ferrous targets and another for ferrous targets. So much for guessing what your target might be based on Tone because there are only 2. Now what about using Conductive Audio Mode instead of Ferrous Mode. This is a real possibility if the new E-12 does NOT false on iron. But if it does false on iron or if you try to hunt with an open screen you are going to get a high tone for iron as well as coins since iron is directly below coins on the new screen. Personally I am hoping that the E-12 doesn't false on iron and that it is as quiet over iron on the beach as it was in the Video of the coin between the nails. When the coin was removed and the coil swept over the nails there was not a single peep from the detector no matter what speed the coil was swept. If the detector works this well in the Field we can forget about hunting in Ferrous Mode and just hunt in Conductive Audio and get all of our tones back again. This the best case scenario and the one I am hoping for as I would really like to buy one of these new machines because there are a lot of nice improvements that I would probably enjoy. I am not sure why Minelab chose to dumb down the E-12 and take away a very important search mode feature and one that set them apart from the rest of the detectors on the market. The dual coordinate system was the best thing to come along as far as I am concerned. Now it's gone and we are back to the single number system based on a targets conductivity with it's ferrous number fixed at 11,12, or 13. Hopefully the original full ferrous mode will be brought back in a future model for those of us who normally hunt in that mode. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber
 
As I tell my son who detects with me, "the reason I am holding ten coins and you are holding three is the fifteen iffys you chased tonight". In the time it takes to chase an iffy, you can find an absolute definite target. And some times two and three. As you get better with recognizing the "quality tones" in an iffy situation the percentages on those gambles will go up (a whole 4%) and the only time I do it is when that iffy signal could be a very deep or valuable coin in a old site that has produced many others and there is no easier targets to be had. I wouldn't really jump on digging one in an average park. If you're in all metal and your gain and sensitivity isn't too hot, the machine isn't going to lie to you. If it says bad 96% of the time it's bad. After all, in all metal you are haring everything. If you are running to hot, you are hearing the ground minerals too. If you get stubborn and argue with it well you just get frustrated is all. Nails don't always give two beeps. As for the display, I always found it easier to listen to the tones, they react faster than the screen and if the tones repeated like said above when you turn 90%, then I bother to look at the screen. In those civil war sites, don't forget to learn where nickels hit, allot of people ignore nickels, but a shield nickel is an exciting find, I think. In those sites you will hunt again, some of those iffy signals will turn to solid coin hits with a little ground moisture, so it makes sense just to pass on them in that case. The worst thing I did with my Explorer the first three months I had it was to dig everything that chirped, crackled or farted. Solid, good targets will singgggg to you, if it doesn't sound pretty, it's probably ugly. If the iffy ends in a "gah-dumm" sound it's probably a chopped iron signal falsing.
 
I appreciate your reply and I too would like to kiss the inventor of that PRO coil full on the mouth because it is a thing of absolute beauty. The reason I stopped using IM 27 and conduct tones on my SE is because the iron would false too often high tone and stop me dead to investigate nothing. In many of these areas where the grandstand rotted into the ground nails included, my SE would null out for 30 or more seconds at a time with any coil larger than a SR 8, problem was I still needed to get about 6-8 inches depth in the disturbed, air entrenched crop soil, with 3 inch of corn stalk stubs. The ONLY way I could hunt it was with a larger coil, in all metal or the nulls would cover and mask out everything. On the SE's, the audio is faster than the smart screen and in ferrous tones the high tone you hear is silver and at that very moment; the smart screen has yet to update. Try it right now with yours and you will see what I mean, go in all metal, swing a coin pass the coil and you will hear it before you see the smartfind screen update. In iron that dense, I couldn't wait for the screen to update, bounce or whatever, I am getting as many as 10 iron hits a swing. If I waited to see a bouncing cursor first, I wouldn't never get to see it and second if I was looking at the screen I would have missed seeing and remembering the 4 square inch spot the coil was over when I got the tone. Heck, my screen just bloody hangs up useless in that situation because it is too much information for the SE processor to display in such a short time frame, the screen does not update as fast as the tones do. That's the true purpose of all metal, because you can separate even better by uninterrupted tones. If your sweep speed is 4 seconds to a full 6 foot coil sweep your coil is moving 1 and 1/2 feet per second. If a null lasts for 1/2 second: that's 3/4 of a foot of ground you just missed. If in that same sweep it nulls over 3 nails, that's 1 1/2 seconds or 2 1/4 feet of ground that was not detected (signals not reported), more than a third of your entire swing and also a third of your signals you will never hear' good or bad. If you don't hear it, you don't know you missed it. Once you see it for yourself you will never go back to IM 27 again, I can't.
 
Mattock, I really bought this thing to milk the very last targets out of some very old and valuable coin giving sites, and all though there is all these upgrades and speed and such, it still nulls out on me in very dense iron and there is no way to program it to give variable tones in all metal. Which means I own the fastest, best ID'ing most stable , most advanced Explorer on the planet and I can no longer hunt in really dense iron, the very purpose I wanted a faster Explorer??? The software change is minor and then it's a plundering beast in thick iron, irregardless of density. You guys aren't getting this. Let's say you are hunting in conduct tones with the patterns and all the iron infested bells and whistles. You get an iffy signal that barely comes through and it won't repeat, the only thing you can do is hit quikmask, all metal, but you're in conductive tones so nails and coins are the same high tone, so by tone they are very difficult to separate. Now, you have to change your tones to ferrous and you cannot tell by tone what's under the coil because a pull tab, every coin, all aluminum, and all foil regardless of size is a flat 12 number and the same exact tone. AND during this entire time you can't loose site of the spot on the ground you had the hit, but you are staring at a screen trying to do tight coil control. It really is hard to explain other than the entire time you are doing this you are wondering why did this used to be so damn easy and now it's like impossible. If you never used all metal before and don't think you will ever go adventuring into the thickest iron, it's not a problem for you and this is the finest machine on the market for finding the deepest coins with the most accurate ID.
 
:buds:Bring back...........bring back..........bring back my ferrous tones to me,...... to me:buds:


I don't know about you Crash, but I see a mob forming, you got my back??

:wave:Hey guys, Crash is over here
 
I'm right on the edge of ordering an E-Trac as my first really serious machine - OR - waiting 12 months for the E-Trac Pro that addresses issues like the ones raised here and under some of the other topics as well. Thanks all of you for packing so much great info into this thread! It really helps me to understand the issues.

I'm still not sure about getting the current one vs. the next one. I'd buy tomorrow if I was sure that improvements would be handled by a software upgrade rather than a new model. If anyone ever pins this down I'd sure like to hear about it.
 
If I read your post here and not think out of the box...I totally agree that is not a good thing...I too like all metal and ferrous sounds in old fields and the like, cause all I hear for a longtime is iron, then when something comes in a diff. tone, I dig no matter what....if it is not solid iron nail, it gets dug up.

I need to stay out of these discusions cause I have nothing to add due to no new E-trac in my hands. It's killing me to listen to these posts and I so want to contribute, cause thats how I am, I like to solve puzzles and figure things out.

Can you get diff. tones by adjusting Threshold tone? I can throw things out there, but it will just make people angry, cause I don't know what the E-trac has for options....so I will leave it up to others to figure it out for now. I believe you and others on here have that ability.
 
I think that the F75 is the perfect complement to the Explorer. You can hunt thick iron in AM/one tone (or you can use 3H or 4H) You do have to watch the screen using it in AM/one tone but it works to find good targets in thick iron.

The down side is that it sounds like a sick duck compared to an Explorer. I use them both in all situations. Of course if one machine would do it all... that would rule!!

I am going to wait, watch, and read for a while before buying an ETrac, i'd really like to just order one because I like new detectors... but I will resist... FWIW, the new Whites TDI pulse machine has my attention too. From what I read it may be a winner in bad ground, don't know about thick iron.

J
 
I've gotten the idea that it nulls on iron like the SovereignGT but that is just a guess since I do not have one. My GT loves nails and large iron but it seem's to just null on most of it, it does not false as much as the Explorer... maybe that's it...

If it is fast and just nulls on iron but signals good targets in the iron... it could work just fine.

J
 
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