To all doubting Thomas's....You're not reading the 'mail'

[TheMarshall]

" Hi there ! "

After reading the general level of comments in the previous thread....SWEEP SPEED AND FALSING, it appears to me that there's quite a few of the contributors who have not yet fully understood the principles behind TTF usage.

I've preached and used the method from day one.

Why?

Because, if you only dig number pair whose Fe must be close to the 12 zone.....you're not a metal detectorist...you are a metal REJECTORIST.

You must play 'dirty' and get underneath the 'masking' effect of the SOIL'S concealment camouflage.

A 'good' target whose In-Air Fe value is about 12, will have that aspect 'APPARENTLY' demoted to some higher value ^ 15 ^20 ^24 ^27 by the increasing levels of ferrous objects OR magnetite (F3-O4) in the soil.

THE TARGET's FE doesn't change......It's the 'surroundings' that are changing, 'fogging' the reading.

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Follow the preachings of JASON in Enid.......

Follow the good disciple.......





Re: Sweep speed and falsing
Posted by: Jason in Enid [ Send a Message ]
Date: January 18, 2012 04:42PM Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 613

Don't over think the signals too much!​

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If you get a positive signal that is repeatable, DIG IT!​

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Sometimes you get nails or screws, but that's the price you pay for playing the game​

.

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If you waste a lot of time checking and rechecking and analyzing and rechecking again you are wasting time for future targets. Beep, dig, move to next target​

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TheMarshall....If the Fe numbers are increasing from say 14 towards 20......whatever your Fe mask level is....AND if the signal is repeatable......REGARDLESS of its possible broken nature.....

Look at the depth guage......DEEPISH...????........GREAT......Go after it.

DON'T BE PUT OFF BY 'IRON' indications when PIN-POINTING, for that is probably the masking agent, lurking in the 'field of view'.

If necessary......find it and remove same...THEN go and locate the nearby good target................Matt

NB Pinpointing is an ALL METAL function....so naturally, any nearby ferrous will generally dominate and determine where the cursor indication goes,

So don't be fooled or deterred......WHO DARES.....WHO DIGS......WINS MORE OFTEN.

 

[bugg]

Or disagree with anything you say!! LOL.

 

[TerraDigger]

I think its solid advice even if one owns a machine that is not a Minelab. Its real easy to get lazy and blow off those 'suspect' iron signals.
Thanks for posting Marshall.

 

[earthmansurfer]

Nice Post Marshal. It is appreciated. I know I have to start digging more of those higher Fe numbers and I DON'T mean just the bounces. (Those are no brainers).

[size=large]We have to learn our specific soils and see how targets respond in them and to the iron throughout them.[/size]

[size=large]When we dig enough targets then we can truly say we know or understand, but before that, we never can say we truly know.[/size]

Thank you very much for the reminder. This is how we learn.

EMS

 

[Paul (IL)]

n/t

 

[I-84 exit 165]

Wow what a great post.

 

[markg]

Agree

 

[DirtAngler]

Yeah, I believe way too many people do air tests, get a reading and then expect that is what they'll see out in the field so they set their machine up by the air test results and are missing a lot of good targets because they don't account for soil conditions or other target proximity and other variables.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

A lot of us here in the States are froze in for the winter and would love to view some of your E-Trac finds from your history rich hunting grounds

 

[Djay-Mo]

I have no problem with anyone posting their analysis of detecting in their soil and or debating what they should dig or not dig. Thats what makes these forums special is the postings and videos of people detecting in every kind of soil imaginable.
As an example, I don't think someone who digs in red Georgia clay should follow the preachings of someone who digs in the deep dark rich soil in Kansas. We must all learn our own soils and decide whats a good target and whats not.
In my area I have places where I would dig a repeatable ferrous of 30 and some places where nothing over 17 ferrous would be a good target.
Watching where your AUTO SENSITIVITY is at is sometimes a good indication of what kind of soil and readings you should watch for and just how high you can run your manual sensitivity without messing up your numbers and depth.

HH Djay.

 

[moose]

Excellent advice Marshal and great feed back from everyone.

I'm finding allot of goodies digging iffy signals that aren't clear or repeatable, but if they appear deep, I dig. My hunting grounds tend to be rich in iron and I have come accustom to really crappy signals and have learned the difference between good and bad signals through allot of digging.

Thanks for post,
Moose

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Still reading my Book but this is a great post and I am learning from all of you !!!

 

[7Creeks]

Great post and great information

 

[earthmansurfer]

I have no problem with anyone posting their analysis of detecting in their soil and or debating what they should dig or not dig. Thats what makes these forums special is the postings and videos of people detecting in every kind of soil imaginable.
As an example, I don't think someone who digs in red Georgia clay should follow the preachings of someone who digs in the deep dark rich soil in Kansas. We must all learn our own soils and decide whats a good target and whats not.
In my area I have places where I would dig a repeatable ferrous of 30 and some places where nothing over 17 ferrous would be a good target.
Watching where your AUTO SENSITIVITY is at is sometimes a good indication of what kind of soil and readings you should watch for and just how high you can run your manual sensitivity without messing up your numbers and depth.

HH Djay.

Djay - That bolded part caught my attention. I am really trying to understand this aspect and not just for my own benefit. For example, in my soil I can get a "thunking" sound on coins when I switch from manual to auto (lower). Some people have dug tons of Fe 20+ signals and never found coins. To help me understand what you have found, my auto runs at around 25 or so and I run it +3 so it often is around 29. I easily can run manual 30 and it makes a big difference on deeper targets (say 8" or 9"). My soil is 1% mineralized but at a very high level of iron (of that 1%). Can you make any determination or things for me to keep an eye on regarding higher Fe numbers and coins in my soil (outside of just digging)? Anyone feel free to take a stab at this!

Thanks, great thread,
EMS

 

[Djay-Mo]

EMS,in my opinion that tells me you have some outstanding soil to dig in without alot of EMI around and that your numbers and sounds should be very good even with some deep targets,(meaning 20 ferrous or lower).
I wouldn't think that any Ferrous reading over 20 would be caused by just your soil,and only you can determine if that higher # has an iron target close by messing with you,that just comes with experience.Dig alot of iffy high ferrous targets until you are satisfied you won't be missing something by passing them up.
I am by no means an Expert with the Etrac having only 1 1/2 years experience.
What I haved learned is nothing is %100 guarnteed even with an Etrac.

EMS you could probably run manual 30 all the time and not have much problem with it messing your #s or depth up if your Auto is staying that high.

We need some of the real SILVER GETTERS to chime in on this,and you all know who they are.

 

[utahshovelhead]

Thank U Marshall! This topic has occured over and over and over ... Nice job of putting a simple take to it.

 

[earthmansurfer]

EMS,in my opinion that tells me you have some outstanding soil to dig in without alot of EMI around and that your numbers and sounds should be very good even with some deep targets,(meaning 20 ferrous or lower).
I wouldn't think that any Ferrous reading over 20 would be caused by just your soil,and only you can determine if that higher # has an iron target close by messing with you,that just comes with experience.Dig alot of iffy high ferrous targets until you are satisfied you won't be missing something by passing them up.
I am by no means an Expert with the Etrac having only 1 1/2 years experience.
What I haved learned is nothing is %100 guarnteed even with an Etrac.

EMS you could probably run manual 30 all the time and not have much problem with it messing your #s or depth up if your Auto is staying that high.

We need some of the real SILVER GETTERS to chime in on this,and you all know who they are.

Thanks for the detailed answer Djay. It is weird, by all "measured" accounts I have great soil, but my V3i has VDI consistency problems beyond 7" (jumpy numbers) and my past T2 and current Omega don't hit targets much below 7". I wondered if the iron mineralization was dropping VDI's into the higher Fe range but thus far have only seen bounces into the mid 20's. But where there is a bounce there might also be consistent higher Fe numbers, now that I think of it. Of course, that is probably why on every 8" or so coin, the Fe number bounces hard. I haven't dug coins at 10" yet and that might be because the bounce is solid Fe! Thanks for the inspiration! I will have to dig to find out, but thanks again, much appreciated.

EMS

 

[Bowie]

The Marshall, Im not a doubting Thomas, and I have read the mail. No doubts, its words of experience but not only for the FBS machines but others as well. But heres my problem, same as you and anyone else...nails and iron in the ground, where a building once stood over 100 years ago. Im ok, when the iron is scattered. But its driving me crazy when I hit these type of spots;even using my smallest coil (which for now is a midsize 8 inch coil).
Im just a country boy, a true hobbiest, no expert in this hobby of mine. I have learned; before. I ever purchased the E-Trac, ground, depth of target and co-located trash target will skew the ID numbers and the sound is your best indicator, whether you have a multiple or single tone machine.
I am finding targets,coins, bullets, buttons etc., targets depending on what type of hunting/site I am at. Ive found silver coins, pennies, nickels,clad but no coins deeper than 6 inches. I have found a couple bullets, nails, wad of aluminum, brass pieces at depths to 9 inches. But, what I have found wasnt in an iron laden,nail infested area. Some iron is there, but I was able to work the signals
I know, there has to be a target, and one has to get his/her coil over that target for a response.
I Do Not rely on the numbers, but I have dug a tremendous amount of iron, mainly square small nails, some bent, working the high tone targets that hit left and right and disappear, when you turn 90 degrees. And the FE and CO numbers usually read good on that first pass, and sometimes a good CO number and 20 ish FE number. A lot of times, when I open Quick Mask, the numbers are still good in the one way swing (or goodish) and drop to low 30s (FE) when I sweep in other direction.
I am still, from reading Andys Book, and from the many opionions I have read on this forum; Using a factory coin program, I have experimented with TTF, but get same results in the heavy iron; BUT, only for a short period of time. I will go back there;but, per recommendations of many experienced users, learn the tones, first.
Maybe,I just havent run my coil across a conductive target in these spots, but I tend to doubt it. Ive dug to many targets in the past with other machines in spots like this, and it doesnt necessarily have to be a coin target.
I have very much confidence, thus far, in the E-Tracs ability to tell me this is iron, move on to next target, BUT, I read so many of you pull conductive targets with these one way signals, That, I have to dig. IF, I do not dig, then I will do exactly as you are spreading the Gospel, start to rely, To Much, on the numbers, get lazy, and pass up possibly good targets.
So,what am I doing wrong, what do you suggest and is time for me to go back and visit/learn TTF??
One other thing, I do run auto sensitivity, and run it in the minus when in a heavy iron filled spot. Heavy trash , Deep On, Normal Ground. I run Normal Ground;because, down here In Louisiana, in this delta country, my sensitivity readings stay in the upper 20s. And will drop a tab over a heavy iron spot, but not much.
Also want to say one other thing, as I knew from day one, I would be hunting in areas like this and that is why I wanted to try and learn a FBS machine. I am not complaining about the E-Trac, I feel, I am missing not learning, something. The E-Trac is a very nice machine and I love the way one uses the screen for discrimination and the addition of FE for assistance in identifing iron.
I have read many threads from this forum, before I even purchased this machine;and knew, some had problems and compained. I am not complaining, but I am missing, something.
Thanks to all,
John