Define “unmasking”

[IDXMonster]

Being as that physics are what they are,how do you believe “unmasking” is accomplished? What exactly is the definition of “unmasking”?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Being as that physics are what they are,how do you believe “unmasking” is accomplished? What exactly is the definition of “unmasking”?

For metal detecting, the definition of unmasking would be the ability to positively discern a desired target located in close proximity to, or partially obscured by an undesired targer (usually iron)

Unmasking is accomplished by separating the signal aspects for different targets to allow you show both or only one of the two. Some detectors do this through speed of processing and signal reset, others through signal manipulation, but the Equinox uses both tactics at the same time.

 

[TnShooter]

Being as that physics are what they are,how do you believe “unmasking” is accomplished? What exactly is the definition of “unmasking”?

For metal detecting, the definition of unmasking would be the ability to positively discern a desired target located in close proximity to, or partially obscured by an undesired targer (usually iron)

Unmasking is accomplished by separating the signal aspects for different targets to allow you show both or only one of the two. Some detectors do this through speed of processing and signal reset, others through signal manipulation, but the Equinox uses both tactics at the same time.

That's a great explanation.

I'm still waiting on a detector with 100% ID success and built in digger. LOL

 

[bootyhoundpa]

Finding a non ferrous target in close proximity to a ferrous target... or, going home with a few keepers as opposed to empty pockets...

 

[TomNH]

A good demo is the following for part of unmasking.
You have some numbers notched out lets say iron.
When you swing over iron the usual "hum" goes away or "mutes" so iron wont give a tone.
The mute period can be long & while its muted you miss the good stuff.
Two things can help. A slow swing speed & not using as much discrimination.
When you get to super fast MD's the mute period drops to near zero & extremely close
objects can be picked out. Signal processing helps things along but there is little
known how they do it.

HH
Tom
LFOD !

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Unmasking was happening even on Explorers, improvements in processing speed and software have likely advanced this further. I saw some pretty weird stuff on the Explorer, coin signals in all metal that vanished if the nearby iron or trash target was notched out, and the total opposite coin signals that ONLY could be heard if the iron or trash target was notched out in all metal nothing. Also saw the target ID changing drastically when flipping back and forth.

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

Being as that physics are what they are,how do you believe “unmasking” is accomplished? What exactly is the definition of “unmasking”?

For metal detecting, the definition of unmasking would be the ability to positively discern a desired target located in close proximity to, or partially obscured by an undesired targer (usually iron)

Unmasking is accomplished by separating the signal aspects for different targets to allow you show both or only one of the two. Some detectors do this through speed of processing and signal reset, others through signal manipulation, but the Equinox uses both tactics at the same time.

I'd say Jason nailed it. Like reading the metal detecting technical dictionary - if there's one

 

[IDXMonster]

All great input. Charles,the reason I’m asking is because of the Explorer2 I’m using while my CTX is at the doctor. There is something absolutely goofy as HELL going on very similar to what you describe. It certainly isn’t doing it with outrageous speed! The physics of the field and effects upon it remain unchanged no matter the settings....so any realized success HAS to be in the processing of the return information. It seems the MORE discrimination I apply the EASIER it produces a tone which is intelligible. I sweep the hole with NO disc after recovering said coin and it’s a downright MESS with CO 30-31 in all directions...go back to high disc and not even a false. I can hear these coins running wide open,but it takes ALOT of concentration,and the “edges” of the tone aren’t always as nice and smooth. I do wonder how it’s all done,as we all do. I think there are some great thoughts here,I hope this continues to be of interest to others as it is to me. The more we actually know whether it be from design information or anecdotal evidence,the more successful we can be!

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

IDX that's weird. When in high disc are you getting the threshold tone or just silence?

 

[IDXMonster]

IDX that's weird. When in high disc are you getting the threshold tone or just silence?

Silence till it hits a coin...so I’m assuming the disc is working correctly. I do have a few pixels blocked out far upper right. I’m just not expecting it to be able to see a coin so plainly in this scenario. This is where my question about “unmasking” comes from,and the definition of it. This isn’t everywhere,just in an area in a newer ball field where I’m guessing there are lots of pieces and scraps of metal siding in the ground. If the EQ series of machines is employing “Explorer-like” processing coupled with lightning fast reset speed it could be something special. I was always under the impression that a machine needed TIME to “look” at a target to get a good ID,and we are talking about how fast the EQ is....in my mind that means it’s sampling LESS of the signal. But then it’s also seeing LESS of a bad co-located item as well.
Who knows,I just hope the EQ is as magical in its own way as the Explorer and CTX are for me...

 

[Jason in Enid]

IDX, there is certainly some "weird" stuff going on behind the scenes of the FBS detectors. I have seen first hand (and others have as well) that at times running less disc actually allows conductive targets to come through where running more disc blocks them. Now, I know some people read that said "well, DUH!" but this isnt about traditional linear disc. We all know that the FE-CO display (and programming behind it) allow us to block out high iron FE numbers (30's) and still pick out conductives in the FE-teens. So that should mean that being open above say, the FE-20 line would allow you to see ALL targets that read above that range, RIGHT? But as some of us have noted, there are times when a blocking say, FE-27 and higher actually prevented us from being able to see a target with a solid FE-20 response. Taking away the disc allowed that good target to then come through even though it should have been visible all along.

Now, that isnt an "all the time" occurance but it does happen. Seems to be when targets are deep and possible on edge or highly angled with iron trash near by. At least that was the situation I found.

 

[lytle78]

Minelab - a mystery wrapped in an enigma and described by them in language incapable of decoding - purposely.

I look forward to more stuff like the engineering notes published aback in the day by Whites. Actual plain language explaining what they did, why and how it works. Will we ever see that again?

 

[dewcon4414]

I dont know how many watched the recent video on IB. Seems to really show what can be lost. The Explorers were in fact great machines once you learned them ..... but i think the ole Sov did a little better job at unmaking near targets...... both were slow to recover. Iron just lights up with a detector compared to a non-ferrious target. Its just a longer response. Even a staple in the soil above a deeper non-ferrious targets can mask it. Kind of like taking a cheap single freq near the salt water trying to recover deep gold.

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

IDX that's weird. When in high disc are you getting the threshold tone or just silence?

Silence till it hits a coin...so I’m assuming the disc is working correctly. I do have a few pixels blocked out far upper right. I’m just not expecting it to be able to see a coin so plainly in this scenario. This is where my question about “unmasking” comes from,and the definition of it. This isn’t everywhere,just in an area in a newer ball field where I’m guessing there are lots of pieces and scraps of metal siding in the ground. If the EQ series of machines is employing “Explorer-like” processing coupled with lightning fast reset speed it could be something special. I was always under the impression that a machine needed TIME to “look” at a target to get a good ID,and we are talking about how fast the EQ is....in my mind that means it’s sampling LESS of the signal. But then it’s also seeing LESS of a bad co-located item as well.
Who knows,I just hope the EQ is as magical in its own way as the Explorer and CTX are for me...

Ah, then its just nulling on the extreme high signal and when a coin is detected its latching onto the more powerful coin signal, more on latching in the next post. The high target its nulling on extreme top/right corner of the screen max conductivity max non-ferrous about the only thing I see ID up there is hot rocks or extreme mineralization. They sound weak and diluted compared to a coin. Here in the Oregon/Washington area there are some patches like that at a park, its undetectable. I don't know what's down there maybe high carbon coke or some mineral deposit but they are fairly large patches maybe 20 feet square. Maybe something burned down on that spot.

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

The weird LATCHING onto target A or B behavior gives you some insight to the software programming, it seems to make decisions based on a combination of the strength of portions of the signals and whether or not you allow in or notch out a nearby iron/trash target. At times it will latch onto target A ignoring target B, or the exact opposite it latches onto target B ignoring target A, all metal wins some battles, discrimination wins others, you will miss some coins in either method.

The best example of this is silver hiding under a rusty crown cap behavior. I have used this oddball behavior to dig many a silver half dollar or quarter under rusty crown caps. If you notch out the shallower, stronger crown cap signal this seems to free the machine to focus instead on weaker portions of the signal, a silver coin a few inches deeper. But if you run all metal and allow crown caps in then it completely ignores the silver underneath, and the ID is pulled way down on the screen to textbook crown cap. Even the tones change, crown caps notched out you hear a mix of crown cap and silver. Allow the crown cap in and poof the silver tones vanish. So notching out crown caps when waiting for a silver underneath to pull the ID up out of the notched area slightly, bingo!

 

[sube]

The weird LATCHING onto target A or B behavior gives you some insight to the software programming, it seems to make decisions based on a combination of the strength of portions of the signals and whether or not you allow in or notch out a nearby iron/trash target. At times it will latch onto target A ignoring target B, or the exact opposite it latches onto target B ignoring target A, all metal wins some battles, discrimination wins others, you will miss some coins in either method.

The thing about latching on one target or the other is signal strength the ctx does this all the time i don't care if your in high trash or for that matter any mode if your fe line is at 32 all targets above well give audio but the strongest signal will be the one the machine picks take high trash if we have a large nail by a dime and fe line set at 32 the nail gets the audio if we have are fe line set at 16 which will knock out the nail we still won't hear the dime or nail .A quote from the ctx book some signals in ferrous coin will not give audio i can say this with any mode chosen if one target has a stronger signal it gets the audio or none is given .

As for finding coins in all metal and disc mode well that's where the ctx shines most people set a user file for a more open screen than the disc screen there using which they do not have to . If you have target trace engaged all the time your running all metal anyway it sees all targets under the coil at the same time .Now the user button can be set to high trash with 2 forms of disc same for ferrous coin now i have 4 disc circuits available and still have a open screen by way of target trace .


Now target trace will not give audio on some targets that are under the coil but will leave a trace of them take a dime and nail with dime under a nail east west trace will show the dime anywhere from 12.20 to 12.45 but no audio north south good audio and trace .Now take the nox on that east west hit it's silent also but good on the north south hit so processor speed does nothing for this situation yet the ctx can see this by target trace with a slower recovery speed .

The nox best the ctx in close targets to trash not under or touching it's the speed that separates the coin from the junk but if there seen as one the ctx wins that category .

As to bottle caps your right Charles it is easier to pick coins from bottle caps than nails are harder to work in than caps . sube

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Sube there's a target configuration I wonder how the CTX would respond to. Its an all metal null on an Explorer. Can an Explorer null in all metal, no but it does anyway dead silence no threshold tone no target tone silence. Rare but I found a few of these, nail at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock pointing towards each other, maybe 15 inches apart, in the center a silver coin spill of all things. Sweep the center between the nails, null. Turn 90 degrees all you hear are the two nails. Weird.

 

[IDXMonster]

Another disadvantage I have on the tech side is in the realm of coil winding,and can they be wound or configured to be “directional”....meaning, could they be set up so the outer edges “point inward and down” so that they can contribute to finding coins under junk. By coming at an angle,(if this is even possible)could it/would it help, albeit a very small amount? I heard the EQ coil edges are smokin’ hot, is this perhaps part of the “unmasking” effort along with quick reset times and no “soft settings” allowed with the sensitivity(no Auto or Semi)?
As stated earlier, it’s a mystery for the great part, Im curious as many are about the inner workings of just about EVERYTHING I have. And as many have also said, I care more THAT it works than HOW it works...but I’m still curious so I can use these machines as effectively as my talents allow!
I’ll be watching for much more input on this subject and how people set up THEIR machine for the best results concerning unmasking,and their thoughts on why their method works.

 

[sube]

Sube there's a target configuration I wonder how the CTX would respond to. Its an all metal null on an Explorer. Can an Explorer null in all metal, no but it does anyway dead silence no threshold tone no target tone silence. Rare but I found a few of these, nail at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock pointing towards each other, maybe 15 inches apart, in the center a silver coin spill of all things. Sweep the center between the nails, null. Turn 90 degrees all you hear are the two nails. Weird.

The ctx will spank that set up both ways
tone and good id .

Charles i have seen where the ctx well go silent with nail and dime but they are almost the same signal strength . My guess is the machine can only give one audio at a time so it pays to check these out now on the other hand target trace will see both at 7 to 8 inches and sometimes to 9 after 9 all you have is a empty curser but still displayed in the proper place on the screen .

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Another disadvantage I have on the tech side is in the realm of coil winding,and can they be wound or configured to be “directional”....meaning, could they be set up so the outer edges “point inward and down” so that they can contribute to finding coins under junk. By coming at an angle,(if this is even possible)could it/would it help, albeit a very small amount? I heard the EQ coil edges are smokin’ hot, is this perhaps part of the “unmasking” effort along with quick reset times and no “soft settings” allowed with the sensitivity(no Auto or Semi)?
As stated earlier, it’s a mystery for the great part, Im curious as many are about the inner workings of just about EVERYTHING I have. And as many have also said, I care more THAT it works than HOW it works...but I’m still curious so I can use these machines as effectively as my talents allow!
I’ll be watching for much more input on this subject and how people set up THEIR machine for the best results concerning unmasking,and their thoughts on why their method works.

Not practical to angle a DD coil but would be on a coaxial coplanar coil. I built one once for my Explorer, amazing coil in trash.