For you gold ring seekers......................

[RandyNorthridgeca]

I scanned 44 gold rings tonight and below are my results. I made a gold program and I'l going to try it tomorrow morning at a park. I'll be digging a bunch of trash but what the heck, it's learning experience, right

HH Randy


12/02: 2 rings 12/03: 6 rings 12/04: 8 rings 12/05: 3 rings 12/06: 3 rings 12/08: 3 rings 12/10: 1 ring 12/11: 2 rings 12/12: 2 rings 12/13: 2 rings 12/16: 1 ring



12/18: 1 ring 12/20: 1 ring 12/20: 1 ring 12/22: 1 ring 12/24: 3 rings 12/27: 1 ring 12/30: 1 ring 13/44: 1 ring 13/46: 1 ring

 

[Jim upstate NY]

thanks for doing the gold rings, I was thinking of doing it, so looks like its safe to say you can use the coin pattern, and just dig everything.. just like the very first detector invented Sorry guys I just cant get over this ferrous 12 thing being an advancement

 

[Beachcomber]

I did the same test with only about 25 rings and my results pretty much mimic yours. The Platinum Engagement rings I tested all fell in the 12-1 to 12-4 range. So with this machine you will need to dig tinfoil to get the Platinum and smaller gold rings. On the Explorer tinfoil read a good bit farther to the left of where the gold and platinum read. Now it reads the same Still on the beach I dig everything except iron so it doesn't' much matter that the rings will read the same as tinfoil...I'll jsut stay out of the dry sand where most of the tinfoil is and out in the wetsand where most of the gold is

HH

Beachcomber

 

[Beachcomber]

I feel the same way as you Jim when it comes to the loss of the high TID resolution and ferrous audio!!!! The funny thing is that everyone keeps trying to tell us this isn't an Explorer yet all through the owners manual Minelab keeps comparing it to "previous" Explorer Models. Using the word "previous" indicates that the E-Trac is just the newest version of the Explorer!!!! And to me when it comes to TID is a step backwards. Still I will try to make the best of it as you are because I like so many of the other new features!

HH

Beachcomber

 

[jbow]

Hey Randy,

Thanks for the info. Rings read right in there with "can slaw" huh. It's always the way. I bet they have a much sweeter tone though.

Julien

 

[Jason in TN]

n/t

 

[Jim upstate NY]

Seriously most of the folks on the explorer forums used explorers, and cant help but compare the two, and hopefully Minelab see what explorer users want from all these posts.. anyone that is completely satisfied with the Etrac is fine, but why not let Mnelab know there are lots of explorer users unhappy with some of the changes, and maybe they can revise some software and come out with the E Trac EX for us... According to some thats why they made the Etrac was from listening to users and posters.. so hopefully they are listening to some of the complainers and build us a machine the way we would like it to be

 

[Rigit]

I have both Explorer and ET and I most certainly hope Minelab do NOT change the ET to behave like the Explorer, You need to try scanning over your gold rings while under 6" of soil or sand and then you will see that the FE ID will change and widen as it does with a lot of coins.

Well done Mineab we love the E-Track just the way it is.

 

[Jim upstate NY]

I like the new features and options etc, but I think a ferrous audio and true ferrous reading or at least one more mode would be the nuts.. why would you not want that to be at least an option? you could run it as is or in the old explorer mode when you want a wide open screen in high iron

 

[Crash620]

Tested a bunch of smaller buttons I have and they were in the 12-2 to 12-10 range....

 

[Crash620]

n/t

 

[Erik in NJ]

That's the point - we don't know what the true ferrous reading is since we don't know what units are on the axis or what the better units are. Is the new E-Trac axis expanded such that the readings are lumped closer? I don't know, but I understand the new scale was to minimize the jumping cursor issue on the Explorer - and no one seems to have commented on this point which I have posted several times. Has anyone yet done a comparison to see if the reading are all still in the same relative order for all coins and other items? I understand your point - and I don't disagree with it - I just think you are stating your case wrong. Maybe the user, as I have said before, should have been able to choose the unit spacing on either axis with a setting such that each axis could have been compressed or expanded to suit the user. I do agree that there should have been at least a backwards compatability mode to just give us faster Explorer.

 

[jimpugh]

n/t

 

[Jim upstate NY]

But my guess is that the ferrous value on all the things that now read 12 are not all the same... I am also not sure what the reason for them doing it is.. Maybe cursor jumping but that makes not much sens to me... seems it would be worse by forcing things to read what they are not in ferrous reading, plus you pretty much have to use the conductive reading anyway now to guess what your target might be, so does that mean you get as much digital jumping if they left that part alone?
Why I think they changed it is to get people to dig more targets that might be good.. those that ignore a lot on the explorer and may miss good targets, if they didn't learn the screen enough that is.. thus making everyone think they are finding more? Like I said I have no idea.. but this is my guess

Sure wish they would explain it, maybe a good explanation and I would understand the reason they did it better. Someone must know, but I guess it is top secret

 

[Erik in NJ]

Well, on the Explorer with it's theoretically compressed ferrous scale (i.e. the distance between "ferrous units" was wider than it is now on the ET) we were seeing the cursor move a lot from right to left and left to right with a wide open screen. This has been a problem. By explanding the ferrous scale the "ferrous units" are closer together and we see many ferrous readings now being lumped around 12 or so. This will tend to minimize or "fix" the erratic cursor jumping along the ferrous axis. Of course many of us adapted to the jumping cursor by hunting mostly by sound. They may have expanded the axis too much on the ET - I don't know - obviously enough that Ferrous sounds are now not really viable. I doubt they have done this all to get people to dig more - the machines should be getting us to find more and dig less. I have heard that the engineers were not happy with the original algorithm so there apparently were trying to fix something with the ET. Have you tried contacting ML directly with some of these question or the lead designer - Mr. Candy? I wonder how forthcoming with information they would be. I would feel safe in the assumption that a lot of thought and testing went into the changes that we're seeing, but I agree there seems to be a communication blackout from ML so far.

 

[digitrich]

As many who have the ETrac will probably concur. On the older Explorers nails would false and jump from the left side of the screen (iron) to the right side of the screen (silver). On the Etrac, nails falsing jump from the bottom of the screen at 36-36 to the top of the screen 01-36. Which is the same thing the Explorer did except because the ferrous scale now is vertical the cursor jumps vertical where before it was horizontal and the cursor jumped horizontally. A while back I posted the statement that I thought the ferrous scale on the SE was a circle, not a straight line with a beginning or an end. Another words if you went one pixel further East (to the right of) coordinate 00-31 it would be 31-31. I came to this conclusion by digging iron meteorites that came in at 00-31 just like Silver only they were completely iron. I have since read a book on the DFX which the author specifically says there is a "wrap" around on such scales and on the DFX hot rocks can easily come in at +95 even if they are solid iron because of that wrap around effect. The real difference in the ETrac that I am not enjoying is how badly the cursor jumps around, the lack of MY detector to lock on to a target and give a smooth "clean" tone, and that situation worsens very quickly as the depth exceeds 3 inches. Now this maybe just my machine, but I don't know. I know when I run my SE over the same target, it locks on with a clean solid, flutey tone and ID's the target unmistakably. On my ETrac the ID bounces all over so bad and gives such a poor, broken tone that the target could easily be mistaken for trash. I've talked to Dick at ML twice and he keeps telling me this is normal. I really have no idea how others are finding co located targets with this thing any deeper than 3 inches and not digging trash. They must have some isolated targets or something, because I have sat on targets that my SE picks up clean and I keep changing settings on the ETrac to see if I can get a "clean" signal and tone from these targets and it is just not happening for me. I think allot of the poor sounds are coming from the filtering the machine is using such as dense trash and difficult soil/neutral soil, fast etc. Seems the less of this new technology (software) and discrimination I use the better the signals and a slight increase in depth, but clean ID, not on one single coin deeper than 4 inches in hunting 30+ hours. What is significantly disturbing to me is as a coin gets further from my SE coil or deeper the signal weakens but the ID stays the same until just before the target gets out of detectable range, this ETrac, the ID changes after only 3 or 4 inches deep. Please someone tell me this does not happen on their machine so I can call ML and tell them that something is wrong, because I know that it is.

 

[jimpugh]

What did you read on an 8 inch clad quarter buried 5 years?

Just wondering if you have been prepared? and if so what where your results

forget the quick screen..... reset your detector then put IT in Minelab coin program, then max SOUND varibilty ,then hold in air 6 feet away from car house etc. and noise cancel with the

SENSITIVITY set manual at 30 Max.... hold still foot off ground.....then set 25-27 MAN. does it hit the coin and lock......you should be able to raise the stock coil another 5-6 inches at the

furthest height the audio should still be sweet but the numbers will get a little spongy but still WAY good enuff for a dig situtation! By all means do not change audio GAIN stock program!

I would like to Know.......If you do not have a seasoned coin garden do you have a Guru around That does remmber to always to map your garden they will sink or foliage build up over the

years.... a 1/16 of an inch a year or more.... If you can duplicate this test the next step is to find the sweet spot "on the coil swing speed " if you speed it up can you rasie it higher look for the

sweet spots.... I'll assure there is one.....the more you know in stone the less likely you are to venture of the true path. Be prepared with contingency plans....Rome was not built in day work

on your foundation these are standard steps with every new detector old or NEW

Its all about assimilating your mind WITH the machine not against!

ps yes all or most OLD hunters know about the the Iron roll-over on the COMPASS or discrimination Wheel

Happy Trails
Jim Pugh

 

[Hungry]

By Cricky Jim, If your sights that bad you could get a Guide Dog and get him to do the digging

 

[Beachcomber]

We don't know what the units are in Conductive either so whats the difference if we don't know what units are that they use for Ferrous. There is no need to know what the units are that is why they just gave them numbers. What we do know by Minelabs own admission is that they "Remapped" the Ferrous into a straight from what the actual reading were previously which were the actual values that the machines electronics determined. So now trash and good targets are all crammed together. Also the cursor jumps around just as much on the E-Trac it just jumps around vertically rather than horizontally. It's the same but different Also you don't even have values on the depth meter..it's just an big open slot with no numbers. It's up to your brain to assign depth values to different locations along that space. This is how to build a generic detector that is for for use in any Country in the World. You purposely do not assign values to anything so that the end users in the individual countries can assign the values themselves based on where their common finds land on the Screen. Detectors made by USA Manufacturers selling detectors here add values and marking's for our common coins and depth values in inches. The Sov is the same way it's meter only has a number scale...nothing that says nickel, penny, dime, or quarter. We don't know the units of measurement on that except that there are two numbering systems in place. The older 550 scal meters and the new 180 scale meters. I personally liked the older meter for it's broad target separation but it did jump around more. The new 180 meter doesn't jump around as much but targets ID separation is greatly reduced. WIth today's electronics and software programming to make things do pretty much anything you want.

HH

Beachcomber

 

[Beachcomber]

I haven't used mine enough to know at what depth he TID changes from the norm but it seems like it was at much more than 3-4". At 3" mine still gives a double beep on quarter and it sounds like it's laying on top of the ground and the TID is right on the money! What I have learned because the first time I had it out I was hnting in Relic Mode is that really deep coins read outside Minelab's preprogrammed coin pattern!!!! Jim Pugh has eluded to this in one or more posts. I had a really deep dime that read 18-40 which is well below the FE-12 and the depth meter was all the way at the bottom of it's scale. It was my first time hunting with the E-Trac so I was digging everything that gave a signal and since this was outside the normal target ID range and very deep with repeatable but somewhat broken audio I was very interested to see what it was. It turned out to be a very deep dime. I don't' want to say the inches as that will just start more arguments but it was dug out a little dirt at a time to that we could find out the actual depth. I will just say it was very deep and that you might want to open up the Coin Program settings to include all the way down to the FE 20 line. JMHO

HH

Beachcomber